FKAS wrote:England: Daly; Joseph, Slade, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Hill, Earl, Willis, Robson, Watson.
Exciting forward selection, complete shite in the backs.
I quite like it. Major upside - Ford at 10. I'm not thrilled about FFS as it hasn't looked balanced when tried in the past, but I'm intrigued to see if this roving-centre/wing tactic has any legs. It's innovative, which is something that people have accused Eddie of not being and, with Ford at 10, there's a decent chance that we'll actually *use* it this week, rather than just having Joseph chase kicks.
Plus, quite importantly, if it does prove to be something that works at international level, it's a tactic that's replicable even when there's an injury, as Marchant is ideally placed to play the Joseph role.
Puja
Its more than just using Joseph though, it makes the attack very lopsided, as the couple of times we worked something to May's openside berth, and then came back, there was opportunity, but the bloke on the end was George twice and Lawrence once. Its also a big workload for May. Needs better planning to fly than they currently have done.
But fair play for giving it a go, and btw Daly is also perfect for the JJ/Marchant role and indeed I would have him for JJ and Watson at 15.
Given the selection googlies Eddie can pull I'm about as happy as I can be with that 23. It's not what I'd pick but hey ho. Obv there's still the potential for the usual 90 sec substitution nonsense, but I'm hoping Eddie is keen to see Willis as much as we are. He'll prob come on at 8 though...
Mikey Brown wrote:Tired of 6:2 and FFS, like most others, as much as either can work on their day if everything else is clicking. Ford in at flyhalf improves the team in general though.
Gutted for Dunn. What a slap in face to put in all the hours and not even be given a chance to show what he can do before getting replaced.
On Underhill I think he actually runs some really clever lines in attack but I’d assume his role is focussed on securing possession rather than taking the ball forward. I think maybe he lacks that extra bit of pace, footwork, or a handoff that would make him a better primary carrier.
why? He's not as good as George or LCD. You could also consider him to be lucky to have got a cap. I do feel that he was dicked about being given so little time, but them's the breaks.
So you do feel he was dicked about being given so little time. We agree then.
We all know it’s utterly pointless giving someone 30 seconds off the bench, regardless of whatever bullshit EJ might come out with to justify it. We don’t learn anything about whether Dunn is a suitable stand-in if George and/or LCD go down, and there was some opportunity.
Mikey Brown wrote:So you do feel he was dicked about being given so little time. We agree then.
We all know it’s utterly pointless giving someone 30 seconds off the bench, regardless of whatever bullshit EJ might come out with to justify it. We don’t learn anything about whether Dunn is a suitable stand-in if George and/or LCD go down, and there was some opportunity.
not really agreeing to what you wrote- I don't think its a slap in the face, more a reality check. I'm not gutted as he was moderately lucky to get a sniff. You seem to be implying he shouldn't have been dropped, so I may have misinterpreted there.
Mikey Brown wrote:So you do feel he was dicked about being given so little time. We agree then.
We all know it’s utterly pointless giving someone 30 seconds off the bench, regardless of whatever bullshit EJ might come out with to justify it. We don’t learn anything about whether Dunn is a suitable stand-in if George and/or LCD go down, and there was some opportunity.
With you on this Mikey. Moderately lucky or not to get on the bench, having got there should have had some descent game time. His involvement has put new meaning to that bullshit phrase ‘finishers’
Mikey Brown wrote:So you do feel he was dicked about being given so little time. We agree then.
We all know it’s utterly pointless giving someone 30 seconds off the bench, regardless of whatever bullshit EJ might come out with to justify it. We don’t learn anything about whether Dunn is a suitable stand-in if George and/or LCD go down, and there was some opportunity.
With you on this Mikey. Moderately lucky or not to get on the bench, having got there should have had some descent game time. His involvement has put new meaning to that bullshit phrase ‘finishers’
I don't think much more descent could have been put on his game time.
Mikey Brown wrote:So you do feel he was dicked about being given so little time. We agree then.
We all know it’s utterly pointless giving someone 30 seconds off the bench, regardless of whatever bullshit EJ might come out with to justify it. We don’t learn anything about whether Dunn is a suitable stand-in if George and/or LCD go down, and there was some opportunity.
With you on this Mikey. Moderately lucky or not to get on the bench, having got there should have had some descent game time. His involvement has put new meaning to that bullshit phrase ‘finishers’
Mikey Brown wrote:So you do feel he was dicked about being given so little time. We agree then.
We all know it’s utterly pointless giving someone 30 seconds off the bench, regardless of whatever bullshit EJ might come out with to justify it. We don’t learn anything about whether Dunn is a suitable stand-in if George and/or LCD go down, and there was some opportunity.
With you on this Mikey. Moderately lucky or not to get on the bench, having got there should have had some descent game time. His involvement has put new meaning to that bullshit phrase ‘finishers’
I don't think much more descent could have been put on his game time.
............. you love picking me up on that one. Even when you went under Tim
p/d wrote:Just waiting for Oakboys assault on LCD’s throwing
quite rightly. He is so good in the loose it nearly makes up for it.
Let's face it, LCD is exceptional apart from his throwing. And, if you think I'm hard on him, remember he manages to miss Hill and Gray at least a couple ot times a game. If that is not the best lineout pairing of the lot, it must be close.
p/d wrote:
With you on this Mikey. Moderately lucky or not to get on the bench, having got there should have had some descent game time. His involvement has put new meaning to that bullshit phrase ‘finishers’
I don't think much more descent could have been put on his game time.
............. you love picking me up on that one. Even when you went under Tim
Mikey Brown wrote:So you do feel he was dicked about being given so little time. We agree then.
We all know it’s utterly pointless giving someone 30 seconds off the bench, regardless of whatever bullshit EJ might come out with to justify it. We don’t learn anything about whether Dunn is a suitable stand-in if George and/or LCD go down, and there was some opportunity.
With you on this Mikey. Moderately lucky or not to get on the bench, having got there should have had some descent game time. His involvement has put new meaning to that bullshit phrase ‘finishers’
Surely, it made sense to give him 15 minutes.
Hells, I'd've given him 60 against Georgia. It wouldn't've proved a huge amount more than his scrummaging power, but it would at least have given him a sensible amount of time under his belt to work with if we suddenly had two injuries.
I’m not suggesting he shouldn’t be replaced or he’s a better bet for the 23 than LCD, because we don’t have a clue whether he can even handle this level or not. I’d be annoyed if I were him and only got about 3 minutes to state my case.
I’m glad he was so happy to win his first cap, having it expressed so publicly that your boss has zero faith in you to do anything other than hold tackle bags in training and make up a body on the bench would piss me off. That’s what I’m saying.
p/d wrote:Just waiting for Oakboys assault on LCD’s throwing
quite rightly. He is so good in the loose it nearly makes up for it.
It is one of those things that sticks regardless of what he does. There was a stats last season that showed he had the best lineout percentage in the prem for the last three years. Obviously there is more to the lineout that the hooker, but his stats are superior to his competition. When it does go awry the comments always round back to it been his Achilles heel.
That's not to say it's perfect, but his perceived throwing wobbles are not as closely aligned with reality.
Last edited by Epaminondas Pules on Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mikey Brown wrote:I’m not suggesting he shouldn’t be replaced or he’s a better bet for the 23 than LCD, because we don’t have a clue whether he can even handle this level or not. I’d be annoyed if I were him and only got about 3 minutes to state my case.
I’m glad he was so happy to win his first cap, having it expressed so publicly that your boss has zero faith in you to do anything other than hold tackle bags in training and make up a body on the bench would piss me off. That’s what I’m saying.
p/d wrote:Just waiting for Oakboys assault on LCD’s throwing
quite rightly. He is so good in the loose it nearly makes up for it.
Let's face it, LCD is exceptional apart from his throwing. And, if you think I'm hard on him, remember he manages to miss Hill and Gray at least a couple ot times a game. If that is not the best lineout pairing of the lot, it must be close.
I agree Dors. Also think him an 'exceptional player' in spite of that.
George has been known to miss a few, and he has spent most of his international career throwing to club mates. That said 2 of my favourite players in an England shirt.
Dunn is in that tricky 3rd choice place. The players ahead of him are a bit better - not by a huge distance to my mind - but enough to squeeze him out. If they are both fit, then they will play as Jones isnt one to make many changes unless he has to.
He should have got more time off the bench. Coming on with 2 minutes or less to go is utterly pointless.
as i've noted before this sort of nonsense is commonplace with Jones.
p/d wrote:Just waiting for Oakboys assault on LCD’s throwing
quite rightly. He is so good in the loose it nearly makes up for it.
It is one of those things that sticks regardless of what he does. There was a stats last season that showed he had the best lineout percentage in the prem for the last three years. Obviously there is more to the lineout that the hooker, but his stats are superior to his competition. When it does go awry the comments always round back to it been his Achilles heel.
That's not to say it's perfect, but his perceived throwing wobbles are not as closely aligned with reality.
Mikey Brown wrote:I’m not suggesting he shouldn’t be replaced or he’s a better bet for the 23 than LCD, because we don’t have a clue whether he can even handle this level or not. I’d be annoyed if I were him and only got about 3 minutes to state my case.
I’m glad he was so happy to win his first cap, having it expressed so publicly that your boss has zero faith in you to do anything other than hold tackle bags in training and make up a body on the bench would piss me off. That’s what I’m saying.
It might make you work harder.......
well yes. There are clear messages- Eddie only had Dunn on the bench, cos he had to have some cover, and he didn't rate him strongly enough to give him much time v Ireland. That said, its publicly quite cruel......but its pro sport; he'd have been berated had he not given him a cap or two. He clearly rates the others higher- one hopes Dunn asked what he needed to do, and Eddie answered. Or even proferred the advice proactively. So whilst at a human level, it had some pathos in being seen to be desperate to get on, in objective terms he knows where he stand, and knows Eddie's stance in it being a tough school to break into. He can go the way of Hepburn (who is playing his socks off...) and Moon, or can figure out a way to get into contention for a match day squad again. There will be injuries etc.
Interesting lineup. Missing Liam Williams is a big blow and a lot of responsibility on that midfield, who both could potentially have worn the other shirt. That makes for a bit of extra spice. Tough ask on Botham, but Lewis-Hughes looks a real goon 'un.
Mikey Brown wrote:I’m not suggesting he shouldn’t be replaced or he’s a better bet for the 23 than LCD, because we don’t have a clue whether he can even handle this level or not. I’d be annoyed if I were him and only got about 3 minutes to state my case.
I’m glad he was so happy to win his first cap, having it expressed so publicly that your boss has zero faith in you to do anything other than hold tackle bags in training and make up a body on the bench would piss me off. That’s what I’m saying.
Think you need to be a bit tougher than that in pro sport, and suspect its one of the tests that Eddie sets you. Resilience and mind set.
and indeed I would have him for JJ and Watson at 15.
............. you love picking me up on that one. Even when you went under Tim
