Puja wrote:Well, on the bright side, we won. We learned a bit about Will Stuart and Max Malins as good international options. Itoje and Curry continue to be ridiculously talented. That's about it.
Did no-one else notice that the French lineout from which they scored was squint? It was so crooked that the French jumper couldn't get a hand to it, let alone an English jumper, but that all seemed forgotten once Curry ran through and couldn't take the bouncing ball.
Puja
Yes it was a very squint throw. Had Curry not gone for it I think we'd have had the put in. Then again if it had been straight he'd have caught it with ease.
I wonder if the drop Ben Youngs brigade will quieten down after Robson's slightly iffy showing. Somehow slower than Youngs with a couple of inaccurate passes thrown in to further hinder momentum. Not that Ben was pulling up trees but he was consistently accurate.
Farrell was awful. I agree the lack of knowledge about the other kickers is baffling. Ford was the top points scorer in the league during 2018/19 and I think had a better kicking percentage than Farrell last season.
Banquo wrote:Of all the bad things about that from England-and a win remains a win and France defended really well- is that Farrell stank the place out from shooting out in defence to gift a try, missing simple kicks, and captaining like a drain....yet will get all the plaudits.
Credit to France and Itoje.
He’s already the hero of the day, sadly. Modest enough in his interview because I’m sure he knows he was fucking shite (or injured) but we’re already hearing how he “nailed the ones that mattered”.
Grayson’s comment when asked if there’s ever a reason to hand over kicking dutiesto Ford or Daly “not if you want to win” just shows how blinded some are to this.
Mikey Brown wrote:I’ll be honest my heart was racing by the end, and it was only for a France win. That felt like a Calcutta cup game.
I wonder if this will be enough to prompt a serious rethink?
He’s said the attacking game was on hold, so suspect not. But kick is ingrained so much in the team that it’ll be hard to shake- not that France kicked much less in fairness
Banquo wrote:Of all the bad things about that from England-and a win remains a win and France defended really well- is that Farrell stank the place out from shooting out in defence to gift a try, missing simple kicks, and captaining like a drain....yet will get all the plaudits.
Credit to France and Itoje.
Spot on. Farrell is taking English rugby backwards. Any other player that awful would have been substituted by half time. He has brought nothing to the party for several games now and looks a real liability.
Will Jones ever see the light?
Ford was not much better.
Time to bog out the stables.
Banquo wrote:Of all the bad things about that from England-and a win remains a win and France defended really well- is that Farrell stank the place out from shooting out in defence to gift a try, missing simple kicks, and captaining like a drain....yet will get all the plaudits.
Credit to France and Itoje.
He’s already the hero of the day, sadly. Modest enough in his interview because I’m sure he knows he was fucking shite (or injured) but we’re already hearing how he “nailed the ones that mattered”.
Grayson’s comment when asked if there’s ever a reason to hand over kicking dutiesto Ford or Daly “not if you want to win” just shows how blinded some are to this.
p/d wrote:Curry player of tournament, richly deserved.
France were fantastic, real credit to them.
Our backs really do look quite clueless at times, until Malins came on.
Zero penetration in midfield, but we don’t really go through enough phases before hoofing it.
There were a number of times when one had to straighten but we continued to just ship it on giving our wide boys absolutely nothing to work with. This was highlighted when Daly didn’t fix the defence and just shipped a crap pass out to Watson, killing off any threat
p/d wrote:Curry player of tournament, richly deserved.
France were fantastic, real credit to them.
Our backs really do look quite clueless at times, until Malins came on.
Zero penetration in midfield, but we don’t really go through enough phases before hoofing it.
There were a number of times when one had to straighten but we continued to just ship it on giving our wide boys absolutely nothing to work with. This was highlighted when Daly didn’t fix the defence and just shipped a crap pass out to Watson, killing off any threat
True Daly did poorly twice. But my point remains, though could add poor lines in midfield. Even Malins was making ground but dying with it.
Banquo wrote:
Zero penetration in midfield, but we don’t really go through enough phases before hoofing it.
There were a number of times when one had to straighten but we continued to just ship it on giving our wide boys absolutely nothing to work with. This was highlighted when Daly didn’t fix the defence and just shipped a crap pass out to Watson, killing off any threat
True Daly did poorly twice. But my point remains, though could add poor lines in midfield. Even Malins was making ground but dying with it.
Who going to run the lines in midfield though? The two lightweight wingers or the two that really want to go on the outside arc Slade and Daly, definitely won't be stand flat waiting to ship bad ball to the wing Farrell. Backline selection was horrific. Ford did well to get any level of penetration going.
The kicking tactics are simple. If it isn't obviously on after two or three phases play for territory. If it's on go. There's not a lot of point playing lots of phases in the centre of the park if you're not going anywhere because eventually you concede a penalty and end up defending in your 22. Play territory and normally you end with a lineout just inside the opposition half then it's rolling maul pen and 3 points or launch a move off of first phase.
Phew...just as well France didnt bring their 1st XV. They take almost all of the positives today. They are moving in the right direction.
We were shockingly bad at times. That shouldnt come as a surprise. Frankly we've had a very "mixed" year of performances, starting with the 6N's and through to today. We have not played consistently well all year.
Today the ongoing issues of brain dead tactics and poor attacking play nearly caught up with us.
Farrell was simply inadequate. Any other player would have been yanked off and replaced.
I think any post-mortem needs to concentrate on the first half (which really means the preparation for the game was awful in a second final). Have we reached the point where the statisticians are ruling strategy? It seems we prepare reasonably well as long as we have videos galore on the opposition. Today's unknown quantity floored our management.
A win was scraped against a French 3rd XV eventually so some credit is merited - just not much.
Can I get a 2nd opinion on Robson please? I accept I don't view him fairly, but I'm not sure FKAS is going to either. I felt he sped the game up, and looked pretty ok. Things certainly tightened up in sudden death though.
Raggs wrote:Can I get a 2nd opinion on Robson please? I accept I don't view him fairly, but I'm not sure FKAS is going to either. I felt he sped the game up, and looked pretty ok. Things certainly tightened up in sudden death though.
That was my impression too, but I also thought Youngs was fairly decent so perhaps the gin is biting.
Raggs wrote:Can I get a 2nd opinion on Robson please? I accept I don't view him fairly, but I'm not sure FKAS is going to either. I felt he sped the game up, and looked pretty ok. Things certainly tightened up in sudden death though.
It's increasingly difficult to judge anyone in the back line given how unbalanced it now is. His passing was mixed, he didn't seem to kick as much, he was slow a couple of times.
What that says about him, vs the positions he was playing in is anyone's guess.
Dont think we gained too much when Robson came on. Didnt lose anything either. Jury still out on Robson, who does need to be given a start so we can properly assess him.
Raggs wrote:Can I get a 2nd opinion on Robson please? I accept I don't view him fairly, but I'm not sure FKAS is going to either. I felt he sped the game up, and looked pretty ok. Things certainly tightened up in sudden death though.
Adds pace to the game and is prepared to put his hands into the melee to secure the ball. Want to see a lot more of him in an England shirt.
Raggs wrote:Can I get a 2nd opinion on Robson please? I accept I don't view him fairly, but I'm not sure FKAS is going to either. I felt he sped the game up, and looked pretty ok. Things certainly tightened up in sudden death though.
Adds pace to the game and is prepared to put his hands into the melee to secure the ball. Want to see a lot more of him in an England shirt.
The poor sod is on a hiding to nothing. Anything he does to ignite the attack is stymied by Ford and Farrell, the latter because he has nothing constructive to offer and the former because he is goody-two-shoes who kicks it at every opportunity like he's been told. I'd love to see Robson start with a 10 brought in an hour before the start to cover emergency after injuries/illness ruled out Youngs, Ford and Farrell. A backline that just played rugby - wow.
Puja wrote:Well, on the bright side, we won. We learned a bit about Will Stuart and Max Malins as good international options. Itoje and Curry continue to be ridiculously talented. That's about it.
Did no-one else notice that the French lineout from which they scored was squint? It was so crooked that the French jumper couldn't get a hand to it, let alone an English jumper, but that all seemed forgotten once Curry ran through and couldn't take the bouncing ball.
Puja
On the bright side for me, a third french team was winning one minute o the end of the 80 minutes .... had it not been for a questionnable penalty against Tolofua...
Plenty of spirit from the french newbies and went in the faces of he english players with gourmandise... The fact he english played bad was of course due to the french agression
Lots of hope for the future
Well yes, obviously plenty of bright sides for you! Great performance by your young lads and lots of selection problems for Galthie. Although you don't get to grumble about the penalty against Tolofua when your first try should've been chalked off for the lineout!
Raggs wrote:Can I get a 2nd opinion on Robson please? I accept I don't view him fairly, but I'm not sure FKAS is going to either. I felt he sped the game up, and looked pretty ok. Things certainly tightened up in sudden death though.
Ha. You don't know me well enough. Benny gets plenty of my ire when he turns in the feckless performances for Tigers. He was tidy for England today but nothing special, Youngs needs to start remembering his creativity he used to be excellent at pulling apart breakdown defences but that vanished from his game three or four years ago.
Robson needs to just tidy his game up. Keep the passing accurate the ball moving and the kicks contestable. Create the stable base and then start running it.
I did enjoy the lack of seagull impersonations from all four scrum halfs. Seemed to be more playing and less protesting.
At some point we'll pick a balanced backline and hopefully try to be creative. Farrell and Slade as a combination is as shite as Noon and Tindall. Two guys who won't run a line and who like to kick.
That was by far the best match to watch -
Farrell like anybody can have a bad day at the office but he’s not our best 12 and certainly not our best 10 so does he really merit a starting berth? I guess whilst England keep winning Eddie can justify (at least to himself and a rather sycophantic rugby press) that that is all that counts.
Billy put in a tremendous defensive effort and fair enough got motm - I continue to maintain he’s easier to stop than a few years back and England have no credible plan B to him. Also think Underhill and Curry would benefit from switching flank berths, the justification of picking Underhill at 7 because he’s quick off defensive scrums (or whatever it was) is starting to wring hollow - he’s more a 6 than 7 and the reverse for Curry imo.
Also the fullback situation is as unsettled (and unresolved) as the centre partnership. On the plus side Launch and Itoje are beautifully balanced imo!
Galthié and Ibañez are the best thing that’s happened to French rugby for a while. They are creating a nucleus of younger players that are being nurtured, and given precious game time, who will be around for a few years, notably in the 2023 World Cup, where France will surely be among the favourites. Personally, I can’t wait for the 6N when players like Woki, Jelonch and the excellent Dulin will hopefully get more opportunities at Test level. From an England point of view, how much longer will Eddie Jones persevere with Farrell, whose form doesn’t merit inclusion in the squad?
