It's not the gun laws, it's the Islamists!

[Stones of granite]

Was the claim of responsibility from ISIS for the killing of a French Police Commander and his wife also invented by Western governments and compliant media? For what reason?


IMHO, most likely. For what reason? As mentioned, to deflect attention from the real issues. In this case it appears to be the work of individuals radicalized by NATO wars in the Middle East, which have killed millions, wounded, bereaved, disenfranchises and otherwise traumatized millions of others, and created a refugee tidal wave directly into the heart of Europe. In Omar Mateen's case, to deflect attention from America's ludicrous gun laws - as well as homophobia.

So there’s just one thing about his claim to be acting on behalf of ISIL (with whom he appears never to have had any contact): puritanical Muslim fundamentalists of the ISIL sort don’t behave that way. Unbalanced, disturbed young Christian Americans who want to act out power fantasies that end in murder-suicide tend to claim a KKK, neo-Nazi, Christian fundamentalist or other white-nationalist identity in a desperate bid to make their loser lives and loser behavior seem cosmically important. And, Jewish young men with mass murder on their minds tend to do so in the name of some flavor of radical Zionism (Jewish nationalism, which makes Judaism a national identity rather than a private religious one). Muslim American young men with similar power fantasies and violent impulses inflate their egos with reference to al-Qaeda, ISIL, whatever the far right fringe Muslim boogey man of the day is.
http://www.juancole.com/2016/06/someone ... ihadi.html

No, they don't shoot homosexuals, they throw them from the roofs of buildings.

It seems to be that in Omar Mateen's case it truly did have nothing to do with Daesh, and in fact it was a result of his own torment at being a homosexual Muslim.

So, in the French case, who is lieing? The Guardian, The Site Intelligence Group or Amaq News Agency?

[Donny osmond]

Yesterday an American shot up a gay night club in Floria, killing 50 people and wounding more than 50 more. In America there is more than one mass shooting per day on average, though yesterday's was the worst on record. Who is to blame for this tragedy? American lawmakers and gun lobbyists perhaps? How about the attacker himself? No, no, no. Perish the thought. It was ISIS - 'Islamic terrorists,' as Americans are taught to think of them. Nothing to do with those gun laws at all. Nothing to do with the insanity of the 'American way.' So what to do? Obviously we don't change the gun laws or criticize the lawmakers and gun lobbyists. ISIS did it, so the solution must be to send more troops to the Middle East and destroy a few more countries, right? It's thanks to ISIS that the occupation of Iraq, now in its 14th year, is continuing, and it's thanks to ISIS that American troops are now in Syria - uninvited. Wow, ISIS is actually proving to be very convenient for the US neocons. You'd almost thinking they were working for them.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-flori ... =applenews

Aaaaaand there it is. Even when ISIS put their hands up to claim responsibility, its still the fault of "neocons" in America.

I agree with you about the insanity of american gun laws etc, but jesus fecin wept could you given the rest of it a fwcin rest, just this once?

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The problem is with you. Not other posters, dipshit.

Your problem is that you're utterly stupid and you have no balls.

You're running around squealing about people who don't believe the telly box like you do. And whining about them using correct language (because you're too stupid to understand it).

What an utterly pathetic excuse you are for a man.

If you want an echo chamber, ask Hammy for a Eunuch's Room.

Feel better now? Meds kicked back in yet? Just keep swinging if not, I can take it.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

[morepork]

I can't wait for the Westboro Baptist Church take on this.

Oh look. Here they are:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3198097/westbo ... in-around/

[J Dory]

Christ.

[Sandydragon]

But equally the brutality of the Assad regime and the actions of other regional players have contributed to ISIS existence as well.

On this occasion Assad is only defending his country as any leader would, as any leader has the right to do, and in fact as any leader has an obligation to do. That's not to say he hasn't done nasty things in the past, but probably nothing that compares with the crimes of America's allies in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, Israel & elsewhere, and certainly not to its former buddies in Latin America during the Dirty War, Indonesia during the communist & Timorese genocides, and South Africa during the Apartheid era. & then there are the various genocidal Afrikan leaders they have supported, such as the recently convicted Hissene Habre of Chad, and let's not even get started on the crimes of America and various NATO members themselves.

No national leader has the right to massacre his civilian population. Ive heard you and others claim this ludicrous argument before, I suggest you have a look at the Laws of Armed Conflict on how civilians should be treated.

By comparison, by your argument this would mean that any US or NATO bombing of civilian targets was perfectly OK since they were acting on behalf of the legitimate authority in Afghanistan. Or that Bloody Sunday was perfectly OK? Are you happy with that logic? I doubt it.

The fact that many governments have massacred their populations, whether backed by the US, the USSR/Russia or anyone else for that matter still doesn't make it right. It undermines any claims you might have of being humanitarian.

[Sandydragon]

Anyway, to bring this conversation back to the core topic, I am pretty sure ISIS does not claim international acts of terrorism, and that these claims are in fact coming from Western governments and compliant media. How very convenient for them. The latest example of the insanity of America's gun laws, namely the killing of 50 homosexuals by an homophobic American male, has now been twisted into an attack on American soil by a foreign (Islamic, in the eyes of Americans) terrorist organization. That's about as sick as it gets. It's like blaming the 2011 Norway Massacre on Christians and their ideology.

ISIS is happy to motivate home grown extremists and spends al to of time on social media doing just that. They may not organise the attack, but they certainly inspire and support it. Im not suggesting that the NRA et al are in the right on this argument, its a convenient distraction for them away from the insanity of America's gun laws, and a nice boost for Trump, but to state that ISIS aren't inspiring extremism outside of the areas of their geographical control is wrong.

[Sandydragon]

I can't wait for the Westboro Baptist Church take on this.

Oh look. Here they are:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3198097/westbo ... in-around/

Wow. Once again working hart to hit new depths of insanity.

[Stones of granite]

But equally the brutality of the Assad regime and the actions of other regional players have contributed to ISIS existence as well.

On this occasion Assad is only defending his country as any leader would, as any leader has the right to do, and in fact as any leader has an obligation to do. That's not to say he hasn't done nasty things in the past, but probably nothing that compares with the crimes of America's allies in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, Israel & elsewhere, and certainly not to its former buddies in Latin America during the Dirty War, Indonesia during the communist & Timorese genocides, and South Africa during the Apartheid era. & then there are the various genocidal Afrikan leaders they have supported, such as the recently convicted Hissene Habre of Chad, and let's not even get started on the crimes of America and various NATO members themselves.

No national leader has the right to massacre his civilian population. Ive heard you and others claim this ludicrous argument before, I suggest you have a look at the Laws of Armed Conflict on how civilians should be treated.

By comparison, by your argument this would mean that any US or NATO bombing of civilian targets was perfectly OK since they were acting on behalf of the legitimate authority in Afghanistan. Or that Bloody Sunday was perfectly OK? Are you happy with that logic? I doubt it.

The fact that many governments have massacred their populations, whether backed by the US, the USSR/Russia or anyone else for that matter still doesn't make it right. It undermines any claims you might have of being humanitarian.

Russia doesn't harm civilians, ever.


Grozny during the Chechen war.

[Sandydragon]

But equally the brutality of the Assad regime and the actions of other regional players have contributed to ISIS existence as well.

On this occasion Assad is only defending his country as any leader would, as any leader has the right to do, and in fact as any leader has an obligation to do. That's not to say he hasn't done nasty things in the past, but probably nothing that compares with the crimes of America's allies in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, Israel & elsewhere, and certainly not to its former buddies in Latin America during the Dirty War, Indonesia during the communist & Timorese genocides, and South Africa during the Apartheid era. & then there are the various genocidal Afrikan leaders they have supported, such as the recently convicted Hissene Habre of Chad, and let's not even get started on the crimes of America and various NATO members themselves.

No national leader has the right to massacre his civilian population. Ive heard you and others claim this ludicrous argument before, I suggest you have a look at the Laws of Armed Conflict on how civilians should be treated.

By comparison, by your argument this would mean that any US or NATO bombing of civilian targets was perfectly OK since they were acting on behalf of the legitimate authority in Afghanistan. Or that Bloody Sunday was perfectly OK? Are you happy with that logic? I doubt it.

The fact that many governments have massacred their populations, whether backed by the US, the USSR/Russia or anyone else for that matter still doesn't make it right. It undermines any claims you might have of being humanitarian.

Russia doesn't harm civilians, ever.


Grozny during the Chechen war.

But apparently that's legal because its their own citizens. Remind me never to let these guys defend me in court.

[Sandydragon]

Incidentally, in case you were wondering, Syria has signed the Geneva Conventions and this is obliged to follow the laws of armed conflict when dealing with combatants and non-combatants alike. These include the principles of proportionality and discrimination. So to suggest that Assad can just do what he likes is a bit of a fallacy.

Some light reading

https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/docu ... nflict.htm

[rowan]

Looks to me like an attempt to divert attention from the fact NATO/Saudi/Israel-backed Jihadists have been trained and armed to start a civil war in Syria in an attempt to overthrow a government not yet under NATO)/Saudi/Israeli control. Now that Syria is literally swarming with terrorists, and holed up in civilian areas throughout the country, the blame for the ongoing warfare and carnage is being placed upon the government troops and the Russians who are there at their bequest to support them. Meanwhile NATO, Saudi & Israel continue their proxy war by supporting the terrorists, carrying out clandestine operations and even full-scale attacks - actually shooting down a Syrian plane and a Russian plane as they were in the process of bombing the terrorists. That shouldn't surprise anyone of course:

[canta_brian]

[Sandydragon]

Looks to me like an attempt to divert attention from the fact NATO/Saudi/Israel-backed Jihadists have been trained and armed to start a civil war in Syria in an attempt to overthrow a government not yet under NATO)/Saudi/Israeli control. Now that Syria is literally swarming with terrorists, and holed up in civilian areas throughout the country, the blame for the ongoing warfare and carnage is being placed upon the government troops and the Russians who are there at their bequest to support them. Meanwhile NATO, Saudi & Israel continue their proxy war by supporting the terrorists, carrying out clandestine operations and even full-scale attacks - actually shooting down a Syrian plane and a Russian plane as they were in the process of bombing the terrorists. That shouldn't surprise anyone of course:

Perhaps get your chronology in order, Assad was massacring civilians well before anyone armed insurgents, ISIS or otherwise. I think you will find that the blame for atrocities is also being placd at the door of insurgents, but lets not excuse Assad, and Putin, of their war crimes in all this. Its strange that you and your gang cant use the word war crimes when referring to Assad, yet do so very quickly when there is a US or western transgression.

[Sandydragon]

Do you have Donald Trump's email address? I also suspect far more people are killed in car accidents or as a result of consuming McDonalds and other junk food.

[Stones of granite]

Do you have Donald Trump's email address? I also suspect far more people are killed in car accidents or as a result of consuming McDonalds and other junk food.

US traffic fatalities

[morepork]

Still more likely to get shot by the Po-lice too.

[Stones of granite]

While living there, it was road accidents I was most afraid of. They drive like cunts in Texas.

[belgarion]

While living there, it was road accidents I was most afraid of. They drive like cunts in Texas.

That's cos Texicans are cunts

[Sandydragon]

While living there, it was road accidents I was most afraid of. They drive like cunts in Texas.

I didn't mind driving in the south west, I spent a bit of time in Vegas, but the North East was another matter. Even getting close to New York was a nightmare.

I also remember a very long drive from Albuquerque to Vegas and back. Its amazing how quickly 'I spy' gets dull!

[Stones of granite]

While living there, it was road accidents I was most afraid of. They drive like cunts in Texas.

I didn't mind driving in the south west, I spent a bit of time in Vegas, but the North East was another matter. Even getting close to New York was a nightmare.

I also remember a very long drive from Albuquerque to Vegas and back. Its amazing how quickly 'I spy' gets dull!

The Texas DoT have a large sign on the section of the I10 on the West side of Houston, which was on my commute, which has a running tally of road deaths in Texas, updated monthly. It runs at around 4500 per year in Texas.

[kk67]

There's a lot of stories in that graph of road deaths. WWI, prohibition, WWII......and later disc brakes, ABS, Air bags..?.

[rowan]

Looks to me like an attempt to divert attention from the fact NATO/Saudi/Israel-backed Jihadists have been trained and armed to start a civil war in Syria in an attempt to overthrow a government not yet under NATO)/Saudi/Israeli control. Now that Syria is literally swarming with terrorists, and holed up in civilian areas throughout the country, the blame for the ongoing warfare and carnage is being placed upon the government troops and the Russians who are there at their bequest to support them. Meanwhile NATO, Saudi & Israel continue their proxy war by supporting the terrorists, carrying out clandestine operations and even full-scale attacks - actually shooting down a Syrian plane and a Russian plane as they were in the process of bombing the terrorists. That shouldn't surprise anyone of course:

Perhaps get your chronology in order, Assad was massacring civilians well before anyone armed insurgents, ISIS or otherwise. I think you will find that the blame for atrocities is also being placd at the door of insurgents, but lets not excuse Assad, and Putin, of their war crimes in all this. Its strange that you and your gang cant use the word war crimes when referring to Assad, yet do so very quickly when there is a US or western transgression.

That's strange, because Assad was drinking tea with the Queen of England in Buckingham Palace and hanging out with the Pope not long before the US & co decided to make him their Hitler-of-the-month. &, yes, I know what Assad has done. I've been there, written articles for the press about the joint, and studied the history. My friend down there works for the UN. But Assad is smallfry compared to the US-backed dictatorships and puppet governments in the region, and practically insignifcant when compared to the US, Britain & France in terms of crimes against humanity.

[UGagain]

But equally the brutality of the Assad regime and the actions of other regional players have contributed to ISIS existence as well.

On this occasion Assad is only defending his country as any leader would, as any leader has the right to do, and in fact as any leader has an obligation to do. That's not to say he hasn't done nasty things in the past, but probably nothing that compares with the crimes of America's allies in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, Israel & elsewhere, and certainly not to its former buddies in Latin America during the Dirty War, Indonesia during the communist & Timorese genocides, and South Africa during the Apartheid era. & then there are the various genocidal Afrikan leaders they have supported, such as the recently convicted Hissene Habre of Chad, and let's not even get started on the crimes of America and various NATO members themselves.

No national leader has the right to massacre his civilian population. Ive heard you and others claim this ludicrous argument before, I suggest you have a look at the Laws of Armed Conflict on how civilians should be treated.

By comparison, by your argument this would mean that any US or NATO bombing of civilian targets was perfectly OK since they were acting on behalf of the legitimate authority in Afghanistan. Or that Bloody Sunday was perfectly OK? Are you happy with that logic? I doubt it.

The fact that many governments have massacred their populations, whether backed by the US, the USSR/Russia or anyone else for that matter still doesn't make it right. It undermines any claims you might have of being humanitarian.

It's not a comparison or an analogy in any way shape or form.

The Syrian Arab Army is defending Syria from a heavily armed insurgency.

The analogy would be if a foreign country were arming insurgents in the UK.

Isn't your job, as per the official narrative, to defend Britain?

Your appeal to moral equivalency is a failure, like most everything you 'argue'.

[rowan]

since they were acting on behalf of the legitimate authority in Afghanistan

There is no legitimate government in Afghanistan, and hasn't been since American-backed Jihadists got rid of the progressive socialists and permanently ended women's rights in the country. From this clever little intervention arose the Taliban & Bin Laden. Nice work, America!

[Stones of granite]

The problem is with you. Not other posters, dipshit.

Your problem is that you're utterly stupid and you have no balls.

You're running around squealing about people who don't believe the telly box like you do. And whining about them using correct language (because you're too stupid to understand it).

What an utterly pathetic excuse you are for a man.

If you want an echo chamber, ask Hammy for a Eunuch's Room.

Feel better now? Meds kicked back in yet? Just keep swinging if not, I can take it.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

Grow a pair, you fucking nonce.

What a fucking intellectual you are. Got any evidence for this accusation? Or perhaps you're just too fucking stupid to know what a nonce is.