England vs Canada - Sat 10th July

[Digby]

clear cultural appropriation

[Puja]

clear cultural appropriation

I know you're on the wind-up, but I'm gonna bite anyway. Seawolves is a phrase that made it into local English slang many decades ago. The term may have originated asking the local tribes what they called the giant angry swimming thing, but it's Tsimshian in the same way that kiosk is Norwegian - just transfers of words between peoples.

Tl;dr - no it isn't, don't be silly.

Puja

[Digby]

clear cultural appropriation

I know you're on the wind-up, but I'm gonna bite anyway. Seawolves is a phrase that made it into local English slang many decades ago. The term may have originated asking the local tribes what they called the giant angry swimming thing, but it's Tsimshian in the same way that kiosk is Norwegian - just transfers of words between peoples.

Tl;dr - no it isn't, don't be silly.

Puja

So things that make it into other cultures isn't appropriation, or it's only appropriation if you do it now, and if you did it before the current woke sensibilities it doesn't count?

[Puja]

clear cultural appropriation

I know you're on the wind-up, but I'm gonna bite anyway. Seawolves is a phrase that made it into local English slang many decades ago. The term may have originated asking the local tribes what they called the giant angry swimming thing, but it's Tsimshian in the same way that kiosk is Norwegian - just transfers of words between peoples.

Tl;dr - no it isn't, don't be silly.

Puja

So things that make it into other cultures isn't appropriation, or it's only appropriation if you do it now, and if you did it before the current woke sensibilities it doesn't count?

Well, you've said the w-word without irony, which usually means someone isn't worth talking to, but I'll indulge you given that the game appears to be dying down. Cultural appropriation is usually problematic when it's a dominant culture taking something meaningful from an oppressed culture as fashionable or trendy, with double problematic points if it's something that the dominant culture has marked as socially bad when the oppressed culture does it. A good example of this is dreadlocks and cornrows which are penalised as "not professional hair" when black people wear them, despite them being legitimate ways to protect Afro hair from damage and keep it neat, but trendy when white influencers do it despite not having hair that needs it. A good example of cultural appropriation not problematic is using the word seawolf to refer to a killer whale - an easy test is seeing whether anyone from the oppressed culture gives a single shit or just says, "Yeah, that's what they're called."

That is how boring the last 10 minutes of this game has been since Smith went off and we lost all structure.

Puja

[morepork]

clear cultural appropriation

I know you're on the wind-up, but I'm gonna bite anyway. Seawolves is a phrase that made it into local English slang many decades ago. The term may have originated asking the local tribes what they called the giant angry swimming thing, but it's Tsimshian in the same way that kiosk is Norwegian - just transfers of words between peoples.

Tl;dr - no it isn't, don't be silly.

Puja

So things that make it into other cultures isn't appropriation, or it's only appropriation if you do it now, and if you did it before the current woke sensibilities it doesn't count?

Just fuck off. Can you be any more vanilla. Jesus.

[Digby]

I know you're on the wind-up, but I'm gonna bite anyway. Seawolves is a phrase that made it into local English slang many decades ago. The term may have originated asking the local tribes what they called the giant angry swimming thing, but it's Tsimshian in the same way that kiosk is Norwegian - just transfers of words between peoples.

Tl;dr - no it isn't, don't be silly.

Puja

So things that make it into other cultures isn't appropriation, or it's only appropriation if you do it now, and if you did it before the current woke sensibilities it doesn't count?

Just fuck off. Can you be any more vanilla. Jesus.

So you can't cultural appropriate where you estimate it because that's offensive, but you can deliver vulgar terms in a specific attempt to be offend.

Also does vanilla mean something different to what I supposed, boring yes, but also bland/unexciting, and it seems odd to be calling someone unexciting and desirous still to want to throw some vulgarity?

[I R Geech]

So things that make it into other cultures isn't appropriation, or it's only appropriation if you do it now, and if you did it before the current woke sensibilities it doesn't count?

Just fuck off. Can you be any more vanilla. Jesus.

So you can't cultural appropriate where you estimate it because that's offensive, but you can deliver vulgar terms in a specific attempt to be offend.

Also does vanilla mean something different to what I supposed, boring yes, but also bland/unexciting, and it seems odd to be calling someone unexciting and desirous still to want to throw some vulgarity?

If you’re going to get offended by cultural appropriation on someone else’s behalf, does that mean you don’t eat curry, Chinese, pizza, burgers, potatoes etc etc?

A lot of what you bedwetters call appropriation is simply adopting something because it’s good, or beautiful. It’s a compliment. When I see a young lady wearing a very short kilt, I think it’s a good thing. That’s why I’m happier than you.

[Digby]

I know you're on the wind-up, but I'm gonna bite anyway. Seawolves is a phrase that made it into local English slang many decades ago. The term may have originated asking the local tribes what they called the giant angry swimming thing, but it's Tsimshian in the same way that kiosk is Norwegian - just transfers of words between peoples.

Tl;dr - no it isn't, don't be silly.

Puja

So things that make it into other cultures isn't appropriation, or it's only appropriation if you do it now, and if you did it before the current woke sensibilities it doesn't count?

Well, you've said the w-word without irony, which usually means someone isn't worth talking to, but I'll indulge you given that the game appears to be dying down. Cultural appropriation is usually problematic when it's a dominant culture taking something meaningful from an oppressed culture as fashionable or trendy, with double problematic points if it's something that the dominant culture has marked as socially bad when the oppressed culture does it. A good example of this is dreadlocks and cornrows which are penalised as "not professional hair" when black people wear them, despite them being legitimate ways to protect Afro hair from damage and keep it neat, but trendy when white influencers do it despite not having hair that needs it. A good example of cultural appropriation not problematic is using the word seawolf to refer to a killer whale - an easy test is seeing whether anyone from the oppressed culture gives a single shit or just says, "Yeah, that's what they're called."

That is how boring the last 10 minutes of this game has been since Smith went off and we lost all structure.

Puja

The dominant culture Vs the oppressed culture argument in this is going down the line of positive discrimination, which I can just about accept in some circumstances, not this. In this I don't start from a position other than people having the same worth and therefore we're free to be equally offensive/complimentary. So for instance having watched the Last Leg last night and seen there's a fan element in USA football called Soccer Moses (with the slogan 'Let My People Goal') I'd be willing to accept some people don't think it offensive, some people will, and I'm not bothered if some people are offended, and not just because I'm an atheist

I really couldn't care less if people share fashion, hairstyles, music, food etc from other cultures. We are magpies, and once something is into the public domain we do pick bits from it, whether that's Keith Richards, the SpiceGirls or in this instance Exeter rugby fans. Trying to stop cultural appropriation seems as sensible as trying to command the tide to rollback

[Puja]

If you’re going to get offended by cultural appropriation on someone else’s behalf, does that mean you don’t eat curry, Chinese, pizza, burgers, potatoes etc etc?

A lot of what you bedwetters call appropriation is simply adopting something because it’s good, or beautiful. It’s a compliment. When I see a young lady wearing a very short kilt, I think it’s a good thing. That’s why I’m happier than you.

This is the strawman set up - "Liberals don't want anyone to share anything from any other culture because they think it's offensive." Put like that, it's clearly ridiculous, which is why it's good that that's a completely inaccurate description.

It's not about sharing or adopting something because it's good and beautiful. It's about being a dick and about the context of your actions. Is having a curry being a dick to someone or some group? Nope, doesn't appear so. Does wearing a short kilt involve being a dick? No-one's complaining. Can you be white with cornrows without being a dick? Possibly if you were on your own in a void, but given the context of blackfishing and taking a hairstyle that has been banned in professional environments for black people as inappropriate and "thuggish" but which you can get away with because it's trendy if you're white, you're probably being a dick.

Should you be a dick to other people if you have another option? I'll leave that one up to the reader, but I'm consistently surprised by the number of people who value their rights to be a dick over anything else.

Puja


On the subject of being a dick, this is not the politics board and people come here to get away from it. I'm going to move all of this into a new thread and ship it there, so you can carry on arguing if you like.

[Mellsblue]

Well said. I’m sick and tired of the rugby board culturally appropriating topics from the politics board.

[Digby]

Is there a contention being made some people in Scotland don't complain about people incorrectly and/or inadvisably wearing tartan and/or kilts?

I can't say I know for a fact that offends some people, I do know for a fact I've heard people say it offends them, granted only some of those complaints came from actual Scots, and granted everyone making such complaint might have been lying. For myself I'm often bored at the lazy association between Scotland and kilts/tartan, it just seems such a lazy trope, but it would't occur to me to claim it's something people in Scotland wouldn't complain about, like most people they like complaining

[morepork]

Digby, your totem is a 3-inch wooden cock. With splinters.

[Digby]

I can confirm I am not a trans person wearing a strap on, although the 3 inches might be generous