Statistic of the Day

[Lizard]

Fuck. Missed an easy one:

Shane Howarth - Wales

[Spiffy]

Prompted by spotting three Maori All Blacks in the 6N over the weekend...

Maori All Blacks capped in tests by nations other than New Zealand:
James Arlidge - Japan
Frano Botica - Croatia*
Riki Flutey - England/Lions
Jamison Gibson-Park - Ireland
Jamie Joseph - Japan*
James Lowe - Ireland
Sean Maitland - Scotland
Deacon Manu - Fiji
Ryan Nicholas - Japan
Bryce Robins - Japan
Blade Thomson - Scotland
Thomas Waldrom - England

Honorable mention
Tasesa Lavea (Samoa) was selected for the Maori but pulled out due to injury.
Clint Newland played in the IRB Nations Cup for a South African "A" team.
Sonny Parker played Maori Colts and for Wales.
Darrel Shelford played league for Scotland

I can't guarantee this is comprehensive, but it's a good start.

*Also capped by NZ

What defines a Maori in NZ? One grandparent? Rr does it go farther back than that?

[Lizard]

For general purposes, it is usually a matter of self-identification based on any degree of ancestry. Whakapapa (genealogy) and Iwi (tribe) affiliation are central parts of Māori culture and identity*. Many Māori whose family history** allows will know their ancestry quite well.

For electoral purposes***, Māori means “a person of the Maori race of New Zealand; and includes any descendant of such a person.”

For the Māori All Blacks, the minimum qualification is at least one Māori ancestor. As I understand, players are asked about their Whakapapa and efforts are made to ensure they do have a real connection to Iwi. These days. the concept of the Māori All Blacks would not last long if Māori themselves saw it as cultural appropriation or inauthentic. This has not always been the case. In the past, when NZ was much less multicultural, basically any dark-skinned player was considered eligible and Pacific Islanders and even players of African descent have played for what was then “New Zealand Maori.”

I am aware in posting this that I am Pākehā, not Māori, and commenting on other people’s culture. I am happy to stand corrected by those from that culture.


*Contrary to what is probably portrayed to tourists, the idea of a unitary, single Māori people is not really true.
**Insert lengthy essay about colonialism undermining this, and in fact most, aspects of Māori culture and identity.
***Our Parliament includes seats for Māori electorates. Māori can decide whether they vote for a Māori seat or a General seat.

[Lizard]

Here is an article from 2003 that I think illustrates it quite nicely. I've added translations where needed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/its-mo ... OIMY3PUK4/

All Black great Christian Cullen's eligibility for the New Zealand Maori rugby team became public knowledge this week - at precisely the moment his selection for the Maori team was announced.

While plenty of rugby followers seemed aware the Paekakariki Express had Samoan and German ancestry, few knew he was tangata whenua [literally "people of the land"].

It was not the first time questions have been raised about the Maori ancestry of a player selected for a Maori side.

Nor was Cullen's the only selection in this squad to raise eyebrows: blonde-haired Auckland flanker Daniel Braid was also named, as was Otago centre Ryan Nicholas, who has played sevens as a Cook Islander.

Bill Bush, an All Black from 1974-79 and NZ Maori player from 1973-82, says such selections made a mockery of the team.

"I think there's three or four that aren't Maoris that are playing for the Maori All Blacks," Bush told the Weekend Herald this week. "If you're going to have a New Zealand Maori team you've got to be Maori to play for it."

But Maori coach Matt Te Pou was in no doubt his line-up was legitimate.

"They're all Maori, the whole lot," he said.

"I've got a couple of guys in the team that are Fijian and Maori, Europeans and Maori, Irish, German, it's just the type of life we're in at the moment," Te Pou said.

"We say to the players you require Maori blood, you also need to know your genealogy in respect to that Maori blood, because in Maoridom you will be challenged."

Peter Potaka, manager of the Maori team, said the New Zealand Rugby Union was building a database of all Maori players and who was eligible starting with the Super 12 players and working down through NPC and national and provincial age-grade representatives.

Potaka said the managers of all the Super 12 teams were asked to supply a list of eligible players, but the system was not foolproof. This year it threw up Keith Lowen as Maori, not because the Rarotongan claimed to be, but because someone from the Chiefs incorrectly assumed he was.

Informal checks were made if there were any doubts. This was done by the team's kaumatua [respected elder], Whetu Tipiwai, from Hawkes Bay.

"The first question is what's his iwi [tribe]and what's his marae [a place/community within an Iwi - sort of like a parish within a wider church]. It's pretty powerful; it's really interesting how it operates."

Potaka said the Maori selectors had been aware of Cullen's eligibility for a couple of years "but up until now he's never really been available for selection. It wasn't our place to say that he was being considered or was eligible".

Cullen's father, Chris, said his father was Maori and his mother Samoan, so his son qualified. "You only need a little fingernail, don't you?"

Proof of that perhaps is Braid, whose father Gary, a 1983-84 All Black, said Daniel's mother, Sue, was Maori from Te Aroha [a particular marae, also the name of the town it is in].

"I think Sue is a 16th, so Dan's probably a 32nd. He can trace it back, he's got the family tree and everything. Dan's bona fide."

Bush and Braid both recalled past instances of non bona fide selections.

Bush was assistant coach of the Maori team that toured Europe and Argentina in 1988.

North Harbour lock Daryl Williams was selected for the tour but then dropped when it turned out he was not Maori but part- Fijian.

Bush recalls a similar mis-selection in his playing days.

"In about 1975 there was a guy by the name of Laurie Holmes, he was Fijian. He got into the New Zealand Maori team that Waka Nathan was coaching and we were just about to run out onto the paddock and Waka said, 'I just found out he's not Maori' and wouldn't let him run out."

Gary Braid said his Bay of Plenty team-mate Mark Basham, who played for the mostly Maori Te Puke club Rangiuru, was selected for the province's Maori team on the assumption he was Maori.

"But his old man went and dragged him off because he was actually middle or southern European and his dark skin came from there. In fact, his old man was adopted and he never actually knew what he was but he knew he wasn't Maori."

Basham himself said it was not as dramatic as that. His father did not have to stop him playing, he made his own decision.

"What it came down to was I had to stand up before a judge and swear I am a Maori.

"I didn't know. I still don't know. I just thought this is bullshit."

According to a story on the Rugby Museum website (www.rugbymuseum.co.nz), All Black Frank Solomon made the 1927 Maori team despite being Samoan with no Maori blood. In those days there were so few Pacific Islanders in New Zealand it was assumed he must be Maori.

With other players the problem is the opposite. They know they're Maori but they look Pakeha.

When Bush coached the side he had Otago prop Steve Hotton chasing him round the country asking to be considered.

"I never thought he was Maori and he came up with his whakapapa [genealogy] and we put him in the side."

Former All Black lock Mark Cooksley, who played for the Maori side from 1992, said some people openly doubted whether he was Maori.

"There's always the odd comment but at the end of the day you're there playing the game representing New Zealand Maoris. I know my Maori heritage."

Maori broadcaster and former Alliance MP Willie Jackson said that if Cullen had Maori whakapapa "I'm quite comfortable with that".

"I don't want Maori rugby to be treated as a joke, mate," Jackson said.

"Really we're being used by the rugby union when it suits them and Christian is using us when it suits him - and we're happy to be used because Christian is so brilliant."

Maori educationalist Pita Sharples said being Maori was not as much about ancestry as a way of life.

"It doesn't bother me whether he's one- 32nd or one-half; what would interest me is whether he's a Maori when he walks into a nightclub or when he walks on the marae, and not just to get into a rugby team," Sharples said.

"When we define Maori in terms of culture it's a belonging thing rather than an exclusive thing.

"I don't applaud or condemn; as a Maori I want the strongest team we can have, but that's not the issue. The issue is when is a Maori a Maori and, I don't know, it's in the heart."

Bush said a positive aspect of the debate was it raised the international profile of Maori rugby.

"I can remember when we toured Samoa back in the early 1970s and the Samoans and Tongans used to look down at us Maori people because we sold all our land off to all the Pakehas [New Zealanders of British or European descent]. We were no good for doing that, but now they all want to play for the New Zealand Maori team."

[Lizard]

So the Chiefs have now racked up 10 losses on the bounce, failing to record a win since humbling the Waratahs 51-14 just over a year ago. They then lost their last Proper SR match against the Canes, before going 0-8 in SRA2020 and now dropping their first match of SRA2021.

Since then their average margin has been -7.7. Half of the 10 losses were lost by 5 points or fewer.

This is easily the Chiefs worst run of results ever, bearing in mind that usually they get come respite from playing other NZ teams. Their 2nd worst runs (v all-comers) were both 6 losses in a row (May 1998 to April 1999, again May 2008 to Feb 2009). There was also a run of 8 without a win (7 losses and a draw) from April 2010 to Feb 2011.

[Lizard]

This weekend, the All Blacks starting back 3 will be George Bridge, Will Jordan and Jordie Barrett. As far as I can tell, this will be the first all-Pākehā/Palagi starting back 3 for the All Blacks since Terry Wright, John Kirwan and Kieran Crowley started against Argentina on 13 July 2013.

[morepork]

This weekend, the All Blacks starting back 3 will be George Bridge, Will Jordan and Jordie Barrett. As far as I can tell, this will be the first all-Pākehā/Palagi starting back 3 for the All Blacks since Terry Wright, John Kirwan and Kieran Crowley started against Argentina on 13 July 2013.

2013?

[Doorzetbornandbred]

This weekend, the All Blacks starting back 3 will be George Bridge, Will Jordan and Jordie Barrett. As far as I can tell, this will be the first all-Pākehā/Palagi starting back 3 for the All Blacks since Terry Wright, John Kirwan and Kieran Crowley started against Argentina on 13 July 2013.

2013?

The Aussies refused to play unless the AB's weakened the side, they fielded the above three. Still won convincingly...

[Lizard]

This weekend, the All Blacks starting back 3 will be George Bridge, Will Jordan and Jordie Barrett. As far as I can tell, this will be the first all-Pākehā/Palagi starting back 3 for the All Blacks since Terry Wright, John Kirwan and Kieran Crowley started against Argentina on 13 July 2013.

2013?

Wait, what? Where the hell did I get that from?

1991.

[Lizard]

Anyway, todays stat is Canada’s performance at Rugby World Cups:

1987: Pool, W1, L2
1991: QF, W2, L2
1995: Pool, W1, L2
1999: Pool, W1, L2
2003: Pool, W1, L3
2007: Pool, W0, D1, L3
2011: Pool, W1, D1, L2
2015: Pool, L4
2019: Pool, L3
2023: DNQ

[Lizard]

RWC2023 will be the first to not feature Canada. Only NZ, Aust, all 6N teams and Japan have qualified for every event so far.

It will be the first time Uruguay has qualified as Americas 1.

[Lizard]

The All Blacks' match this week will feature 6 members of the NZ U20 squad that played in the IRB 2011 World Junior Championship. The match will feature no members of the Welsh squad from that tournament who lost 92-0 to NZ, for whom Gareth Anscombe kicked 11 conversions.

The 2011 NZ side is regarded as the probably the greatest U20 side ever assembled. Its members have amassed 503 test caps (by 13 players) for NZ, 27 for Wales, 13 for Tonga and 9 for England.

[Lizard]

Here’s a good one:

Last weekend was the first time since 1997 that Wales and the All Blacks have met without Warren Gatland, Steve Hansen or Graham Henry taking charge of one of the sides.

[Mr Mwenda]

Stat query, was last week the first time the all blacks and black ferns both lost on the same day? Likewise, was yesterday the first time they both lost to the same opponent on the same day?

[Puja]

I don't know that one, but here's a stat - yesterday was the first time that Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa all lost on the same weekend since 2002.

Puja

[Lizard]

The All Blacks last lost 2 in a row on a Northern tour in 1935/36.

They last lost 2 (non-consecutive) on a Northern tour in 1953/54.

Wales beat us on both those occasions.

[Lizard]

Stat query, was last week the first time the all blacks and black ferns both lost on the same day? Likewise, was yesterday the first time they both lost to the same opponent on the same day?

17 November 2018, AB lost to Ireland, BF lost to France.

1 December 2012, both teams lost to England at Twickenham.

These are the most recent examples (other than the current tours) - I'm not sure how many earlier ones there might be (if any).

[Mr Mwenda]

Tah

[Lizard]

(Edited)

Most tries scored for each 6N/RC country

Argentina: Jose Nunez Piossek (29/28 caps)
Australia: David Campese (64 tries/101)
England: Rory Underwood (49/85)
France: Serge Blanco (38/93)
Ireland: Brian O'Driscoll (46/133)
Italy: Marcello Cuttitta (25/54)
New Zealand: Doug Howlett (49/62)
Scotland: Ian Smith (24/32), Tony Stanger (24/52)
South Africa: Bryan Habana (67/124)
Wales: Shane Williams (58/87)

These exclude tries/caps for the Lions

Update time!

Scotland's try-scoring record has been beaten for the first time since the 1930s! Stuart Hogg moves the mark to 25 (88 caps) at long last.

[Mr Mwenda]

I found this video pretty interesting:

[Buggaluggs]

Statistic of the day. I dunno. All SH teams lose, first ever at home, I soiled my self twice in one day, brit PM resigns the day before Eng beat Aus - take your pick

[Lizard]

I'll look at these wingers at some point. in the meantime...

Progression of the All Black's Try-Scoring Record
Opai Asher, 1 (scored on 15 August 1903): The first try scorer in NZ’s first test. Equalled in the same match by Dick McGregor and George Tyler.

Duncan McGregor, 2 to 6 (scored between 13 August 1904 - 16 December 1905): No relation to Dick, he scored twice in NZ’s 2nd ever test v Lions to take the record to 2. This was equalled by Archie McMinn, George Smith and Bob Deans (of disallowed try v Wales fame). McGregor then scored an amazing 4 tries in the Originals’ test v England to take the record to 6, where it remained when he retired.

Frank Mitchinson, 7 to 10 (25 July 1908 – 2 July 1910): Mitchinson equalled McGregor’s mark in the first test against the Anglo-Welsh in 1908, before scoring 3 tries in the 3rd test of the series to take the record and extend it to 9. He scored once more, v Australia in 1910 and retired as the record holder in 1913 with 10. This mark stood through both World Wars until…

Ian Kirkpatrick, 11 to 16 (6 January 1973 – 30 July 1977): This legendary loose-forward gained the record against England on 6 January 1973, having drawn level the previous year v Australia. He took the record to 16 in his penultimate test, the 3rd of 4 against the 1977 Lions.

Stu Wilson, 17 – 19 (16 July 1983): It was on the very next Lions tour to NZ (only 6 years later!) that Stu Wilson equalled the record in the 3rd test and scored 3 in the 4th test hiding to move the record to 19 – the second time that the record was taken in a hat-trick against a team now regarded as Lions. (The only other hat-trick v Lions was recorded by Springbok Tom van Vollenhoven in the 2nd test in 1955).

John Kirwan, 20 – 35(3 July 1988 – 9 July 1994): Kirwan drew equal with and surpassed Wilson in scoring twice v Australia in 1988. He held the record for the rest of his career, retiring with 35.

Jeff Wilson, 36 – 39 (14 October 1999 – 31 October 1999): Once again the record was equalled and overtaken in the course of a hat-trick, this time by Goldie moving the mark to 37 v Italy at RWC1999. Wilson became the first record holder to be overtaken during his career (he ended in 2001 with 44 tries to his name), by the incomparable…

Christian Cullen, 40 – 46 (19 August 2000 – 29June 2002): Cullen took advantage of Wilson taking a break from test rugby in 2000 to level the record on 5 August 2000 v Oz in the Tri Nations, and take it outright scoring a brace two weeks later v SA. Wilson never caught up and when Cullen was outrageously dropped he had taken the record to 46.

Doug Howlett, 47 – 49 (23 September 2007 – 29 September 2007): Howlett drew level with Cully by virtue of yet another RWC hat-trick v Italy on 8 September 2007. He took the record to 48 in his next game v Scotland, and to 49 v Romania. Staggeringly, he was hubristically rested for the infamous QF so that is where his record ended and still stands today.

And while I'm updating, this record is still not under any serious threat given that J Savea has been unable to mount a comeback and increase his tally of 46 (2nd= with Cullen & Rokocoko).

Current contenders include Beauden Barrett, who needs 16 more tries to take the crown. He might increase his strike rate (0.42) playing more at fullback but he's still going to need 30-odd more tests to get there. If the test schedule returns to normal, and he plays through to RWC2023 (when he will be 32) as a regular starter, he has a chance.

Rieko Ioane is just over halfway there, with 26 tries off 32 caps. At his current strike rate (0.81) he would also need about 30 more caps to get there and he's far from assured of that at the moment.

George Bridge has had a good start, with 9 tries in 10 tests (including 3 off the bench). However, 4 of those were against Tonga, and 2 against Japan.

A further update:
Beauden is now only 9 short of taking record. At his average rate, he would need about 24 more caps to make it. Assuming he will retire after RWC2023 (max. 17 tests: 4 summer tour, 6 TRC and 7 RWC) I think his only chance is racking up a couple of selfishly big tallies against Namibia and Uruguay in RWC pool play.

Reiko is now on 32 tries in 56 tests - a real drop in strike rate following his positional change. He would need another 50 caps or to get there, which I think is not at all realistic.

Bridge has faded away of course.

Will Jordan is the hot new prospect. 21 tries at a 100% strike rate. He's still got a long way to go and surely won't sustain that rate, but is the most promising candidate since J Savea.

Jordie B. has 20 tries in 45 tests, aged 25. Outside chance - would need to truck on into his mid-30s probably.

[Lizard]

Will Jordan now 22 tries from 22 tests. If he’s selected against Uruguay or Namibia (with all due Respect) in the World Cup, he could move into the More Tries Than Test Caps club.

[Lizard]

Will Jordan now 22 tries from 22 tests. If he’s selected against Uruguay or Namibia (with all due Respect) in the World Cup, he could move into the More Tries Than Test Caps club.

23 from 23, now. Incredible.

[Lizard]

Only the second Barrett-less test since Australia in August 2015. The other was v Japan last year.

Will Jordan dips below 1 try per test.