Autumn Series 2021: Scotland

[Soapy]

Kinghorn getting practice at 10 for Edinburgh, not on the same level as Thomson has been. Poor selection IMHO

I agree. It's hard to understand why Kinghorn is one of Townsend's favoured players when he is so quick to dismiss others.

[Big D]

Kinghorn getting practice at 10 for Edinburgh, not on the same level as Thomson has been. Poor selection IMHO

I agree. It's hard to understand why Kinghorn is one of Townsend's favoured players when he is so quick to dismiss others.

I don't agree with him starting at 10 but I don't recall Kinghorn ever letting Townsend down, including some tough assignments on the wing when he hadn't played much rugby there.

So I can understand Townsend having faith in him, but don't get the rush to fast track him at 10. The only thing I can really think of it looking towards the world cup where he might want Kinghorn to cover the back line in the "easier" games.

[switchskier]

Kinghorn getting practice at 10 for Edinburgh, not on the same level as Thomson has been. Poor selection IMHO

I agree. It's hard to understand why Kinghorn is one of Townsend's favoured players when he is so quick to dismiss others.

I don't agree with him starting at 10 but I don't recall Kinghorn ever letting Townsend down, including some tough assignments on the wing when he hadn't played much rugby there.

So I can understand Townsend having faith in him, but don't get the rush to fast track him at 10. The only thing I can really think of it looking towards the world cup where he might want Kinghorn to cover the back line in the "easier" games.

I'd agree. I can certainly see the case for Kinghorn at ten. He has some great skills and attributes, there is talent that we should be looking to bet on them long term. When he first signed a pro contract most of us were a little nonplussed that he was being played at 15 when there were so few options at Edinburgh at ten. We run the risk of writing him off too early because he has had less wow moments playing in a cockerill/Hodge attack recently.

I'm just a bit perplexed, like everyone, that he's going to do that in an international. Presumably Tonga are also limited by being outside of the IRB window? Can you argue that this is actually an easier development test than playing domestic rugby?

[Cameo]

I agree. It's hard to understand why Kinghorn is one of Townsend's favoured players when he is so quick to dismiss others.

I don't agree with him starting at 10 but I don't recall Kinghorn ever letting Townsend down, including some tough assignments on the wing when he hadn't played much rugby there.

So I can understand Townsend having faith in him, but don't get the rush to fast track him at 10. The only thing I can really think of it looking towards the world cup where he might want Kinghorn to cover the back line in the "easier" games.

I'd agree. I can certainly see the case for Kinghorn at ten. He has some great skills and attributes, there is talent that we should be looking to bet on them long term. When he first signed a pro contract most of us were a little nonplussed that he was being played at 15 when there were so few options at Edinburgh at ten. We run the risk of writing him off too early because he has had less wow moments playing in a cockerill/Hodge attack recently.

I'm just a bit perplexed, like everyone, that he's going to do that in an international. Presumably Tonga are also limited by being outside of the IRB window? Can you argue that this is actually an easier development test than playing domestic rugby?

Yeah, it's interesting given there is Thompson there too who they are presumably keen to get involved too.

I think it is a bit of a calculated gamble but they consider it worth it given how talented BK is. It may be part of a long-term move or it may end up just giving us more options rather than resorting to JVDW or Weir.

Also helps with bench options if they grow trust in him as 10 cover. In some ways he would be more useful than Hastings there as he can cover wing too so may be brought on tactically rather than just to cover injury.

[Cameo]

I think the thing we don't have a good grasp on is how good the Tonga team is. They played the ABs with a team with almost exclusively southern hemisphere based players recently and shipped 100. I'm not sure whether how the northern hemisphere based team is shaping up.

If we can win comfortably with some new players then job done. If we lose, questions will be asked about selection. I suppose we should see the game as replacing the summer tests.

[septic 9]

I'd agree. I can certainly see the case for Kinghorn at ten. He has some great skills and attributes, there is talent that we should be looking to bet on them long term. When he first signed a pro contract most of us were a little nonplussed that he was being played at 15 when there were so few options at Edinburgh at ten. We run the risk of writing him off too early because he has had less wow moments playing in a cockerill/Hodge attack recently.

when he signed for Edinburgh only deluded Edinburgh fans seeking the messiah to fill what was already a long term problem position for them. Anyone who watched him for the U20s saw a lad who was hopeless at 10, was moved to full back where he did fairly well. It was so obvious at that time he could not be expected to play 10 in senior rugby - he was no longer the big lad who was very good and fast playing therefore for a school team at stand off.

And Its not obvious to me that he has a skillset clearly suited to stand off. I haven't see him at 10 show an ability to control a game, manage it all; he has a big boot for sure, but I haven't seen him use that tactically on the hoof to control a game. I haven't seen him regularly take the ball to the gain line and pull in a defender before passing to a runner; I haven't seen him regularly looping round to take the ball wider and create an overlap. Maybe he can do all of those regularly, but this week's opponents are so weak (I know, banana skin) that even if its fine we really really haven't learned anything about how he can perform at 10 at a higher level

Now he is older, much more experienced, maybe he can cut it - maybe. But he needs to prove that for Edinburgh first, not for Scotland. Edinburgh is supposed to develop and produce players for Scotland, not the other way around. Scotland is not a training ground for Edinburgh

[septic 9]

I think the thing we don't have a good grasp on is how good the Tonga team is. They played the ABs with a team with almost exclusively southern hemisphere based players recently and shipped 100. I'm not sure whether how the northern hemisphere based team is shaping up.

If we can win comfortably with some new players then job done. If we lose, questions will be asked about selection. I suppose we should see the game as replacing the summer tests.

this is purely to raise money after the last season or so. The opportunity to blood some new players is a bonus, as you say replacing what we lost in the summer

[Big D]

I'd agree. I can certainly see the case for Kinghorn at ten. He has some great skills and attributes, there is talent that we should be looking to bet on them long term. When he first signed a pro contract most of us were a little nonplussed that he was being played at 15 when there were so few options at Edinburgh at ten. We run the risk of writing him off too early because he has had less wow moments playing in a cockerill/Hodge attack recently.

when he signed for Edinburgh only deluded Edinburgh fans seeking the messiah to fill what was already a long term problem position for them. Anyone who watched him for the U20s saw a lad who was hopeless at 10, was moved to full back where he did fairly well. It was so obvious at that time he could not be expected to play 10 in senior rugby - he was no longer the big lad who was very good and fast playing therefore for a school team at stand off.

If I remember correctly, the reason he played 10 was that Edinburgh Academy didn't really have one at under 18 and both Kinghorn and another player (can't quite remember his name - Farr perhaps?) were the best players but both suited to full back. Kinghorn was the better 10 of the two so played there to allow Accies to play their two best players at the same time. That continued to Scotland as there wasn't a stand out alternative in the 18s at the time.

At pro level since his debut at 18 until back end of last season he was always seen as a full back at pro level and mostly at U20 level by coaches. In the U20 world cup announcements he was listed as a full back and only played 10 when they had to replace Hutchinson, Hastings and Henderson. In 2015, he mostly played full back, in 2016 he started every game at full back bar the one Hastings missed.

It is easy to forget how callow our options at 10 has been in the youth teams, especially during Kinghorns time. Hutchinson is now a pro centre, Eastgate is at Plymouth Albion and Josh Henderson is "only" plying his trade in Hong Kong IIRC. I don't think we've had 2 good 10's come through at the same time for a long time.

The selectors are playing silly buggers, there is potentially a decent quality 15 in there but we are now giving him the Mossy treatment.

[Big D]

Shaky opening 5-10min so far. Understandable in a way but needs to improve.

Very few folk in the crowd here.

[switchskier]

Shaky defence so far but Graham a d MacLean look up for it. Ritchie typically prominent

[switchskier]

Job done but difficult to take too much from that. It wasn't really fair on Tonga, showed that they don't have depth or time together to play as a team. For that reason, I'm disappointed that we didn't put at least 80 on them.

But we have options in the back three at least.

[Cameo]

That was as much and more than I hoped for. A bit of rustiness but loads of good performances and the new kids did well. Tonga's backs defence was very ropey but put together a few moves (plus sidesteps) to exploit it.

Doesn't give us that much of a clue for the next few weeks but it was never going to.

It's easy to forget how new having wingers who score tries is for Scotland!!

[Spiffy]

Job done but difficult to take too much from that. It wasn't really fair on Tonga, showed that they don't have depth or time together to play as a team. For that reason, I'm disappointed that we didn't put at least 80 on them.

But we have options in the back three at least.

Bit of a training romp for Scotland against a pretty scratch selection of Tonga reserves. Still,you can only play what's in front of you. Two wings looking good, Graham not a FB.

[Big D]

Don't think we learned anything that we didn't already know in that game.

[whatisthejava]

Jesus this is a depressing place

Re Kinghorm - no one is really expecting him to displace Russell/Hastings or Thompson but they want to keep him involved and playing as he prob is the next full back after Hogg considering maitland is getting older.

I actually think he did pretty well, mixed it up and stuck to the game plan of moving it wide and letting the talent speak for itself. I think with Thompson they clearly see him as the current number 3 but want to ease him into it so he played 15 today and slipped into first receiver when needed ( he also took the kicks). I think that has potential banana skin written on it and if Thompson had been holding that shit sandwich would have been pretty shit development for him.

The rest

Scottish /Fiji/French and kiwis are the only players willing to toss the ball about , although we weren’t under pressure scotland wanted to play high tempo and keep the ball moving as much as possible. My gut feeling is this is so we can match Australia but also sorry to Ozzie the saffas by keeping the ball alive as much as possible.

Graham just looks class but didn’t really need to do anything as the plan was run, pass and step.

Styne, Rufus, Johnson and the 13 all ran some very nice decoy /dummy lines that really will worry bigger teams if toony is willing to double down on it.

Forwards did what they needed, maul needs work

I thought defensively we were sound, the Tongans had to bust a gut to score a try and while it’s not the AB Scotland of old would have conceded 30 out of habit.

[Spiffy]

Jesus this is a depressing place

Re Kinghorm - no one is really expecting him to displace Russell/Hastings or Thompson but they want to keep him involved and playing as he prob is the next full back after Hogg considering maitland is getting older.

I actually think he did pretty well, mixed it up and stuck to the game plan of moving it wide and letting the talent speak for itself. I think with Thompson they clearly see him as the current number 3 but want to ease him into it so he played 15 today and slipped into first receiver when needed ( he also took the kicks). I think that has potential banana skin written on it and if Thompson had been holding that shit sandwich would have been pretty shit development for him.

The rest

Scottish /Fiji/French and kiwis are the only players willing to toss the ball about , although we weren’t under pressure scotland wanted to play high tempo and keep the ball moving as much as possible. My gut feeling is this is so we can match Australia but also sorry to Ozzie the saffas by keeping the ball alive as much as possible.

Graham just looks class but didn’t really need to do anything as the plan was run, pass and step.

Styne, Rufus, Johnson and the 13 all ran some very nice decoy /dummy lines that really will worry bigger teams if toony is willing to double down on it.

Forwards did what they needed, maul needs work

I thought defensively we were sound, the Tongans had to bust a gut to score a try and while it’s not the AB Scotland of old would have conceded 30 out of habit.

The plan is also to make your tackles as the last line of defence. I really like Graham as a live wire wing but his defence was poor today and not up to international standard in the FB slot. He was brushed off to easily on a few occasions. Kinghorn is probably the natural backup 15 to Hogg (and can also play wing.) He also did OK at 10 today, but had an armchair ride, and did not impress with goal kicking stats. He is not close to Russell or Hastings as a fly half.

[Cameo]

Jesus this is a depressing place

Re Kinghorm - no one is really expecting him to displace Russell/Hastings or Thompson but they want to keep him involved and playing as he prob is the next full back after Hogg considering maitland is getting older.

I actually think he did pretty well, mixed it up and stuck to the game plan of moving it wide and letting the talent speak for itself. I think with Thompson they clearly see him as the current number 3 but want to ease him into it so he played 15 today and slipped into first receiver when needed ( he also took the kicks). I think that has potential banana skin written on it and if Thompson had been holding that shit sandwich would have been pretty shit development for him.

The rest

Scottish /Fiji/French and kiwis are the only players willing to toss the ball about , although we weren’t under pressure scotland wanted to play high tempo and keep the ball moving as much as possible. My gut feeling is this is so we can match Australia but also sorry to Ozzie the saffas by keeping the ball alive as much as possible.

Graham just looks class but didn’t really need to do anything as the plan was run, pass and step.

Styne, Rufus, Johnson and the 13 all ran some very nice decoy /dummy lines that really will worry bigger teams if toony is willing to double down on it.

Forwards did what they needed, maul needs work

I thought defensively we were sound, the Tongans had to bust a gut to score a try and while it’s not the AB Scotland of old would have conceded 30 out of habit.

The plan is also to make your tackles as the last line of defence. I really like Graham as a live wire wing but his defence was poor today and not up to international standard in the FB slot. He was brushed off to easily on a few occasions. Kinghorn is probably the natural backup 15 to Hogg (and can also play wing.) He also did OK at 10 today, but had an armchair ride, and did not impress with goal kicking stats. He is not close to Russell or Hastings as a fly half.

He got bounced by a giant of a winger twice. I don't think anyone thinks he'll be first choice full back any time soon (or ever), but I am not particularly worried about today's missed tackles.

[whatisthejava]

He got bounced by a giant of a winger twice. I don't think anyone thinks he'll be first choice full back any time soon (or ever), but I am not particularly worried about today's missed tackles.

That’s how I saw it, he slowed both players down and neither led to a try.

He couldn’t an international full back but he can fill in during an emergency

[septic 9]

He got bounced by a giant of a winger twice. I don't think anyone thinks he'll be first choice full back any time soon (or ever), but I am not particularly worried about today's missed tackles.

That’s how I saw it, he slowed both players down and neither led to a try.

He couldn’t an international full back but he can fill in during an emergency

he is far from the worst full back option. And is a very good defender. Being bumped by a guy the size and pace of Fifita is going to happen to much bigger players, and I will guarantee the same would have happened to 6'5" 16st Kinghorn. Defensively you need to double team guys like that, fortunately there aren't that many of them.

[septic 9]

Don't think we learned anything that we didn't already know in that game.

we learned that Kinghorn can't pass off his left hand. Bit of an issue for a 10 in the gameplan we want to use

[septic 9]

Job done but difficult to take too much from that. It wasn't really fair on Tonga, showed that they don't have depth or time together to play as a team. For that reason, I'm disappointed that we didn't put at least 80 on them..

not even their own coaching team or analysts with them. Met up 4 days before the game.
Our 20mins after HT was shite. Yes we were miles ahead but that sort of lack of absolute clinical full on cut throat attitude and focus is why the ABs scored a ton and we fell way short. And its what can lose other games

[General Zod]

Defence was a bit of a worry for me, for next week in particular. Indeed, the line-out was also a concern and I can’t really judge the scrum, other than to say that a Petrus du Plessis-coached Australia will provide a proper test next up. I’d imagine the impending return of Rennie will help add a bit to training this week.

If that all seems a bit negative, I don’t mean it to be. It was the first game of the new season and time to try a few things. Now we know what to work on when the other lads come in. Lots of positives too, not least Steyn, McLean and the young second rows coming into the game later on.

I’m really looking forward to the game. Seems like years since I’ve been to Murrayfield, and that’s because it is! Think the last game I went to was the last time we played england there. Hopefully, the weather will be a bit better on Sunday!

[whatisthejava]

I think we need to use this AI to blood some players and increase our potential pool before we start focusing on the RWC squad

If you think we have a squad of 33 for the RWC we are looking at

Kebble, shoeman , Sutherland
Brown, Mcinally, Cherry, turner
Fagerson, berghan …
Gilchrist j Gray
S skinner , …
Richie, Bradbury,
Watson, crosbie, darge
Fagerson, Haining …
Price, dobbie, vellacott, horne
Russel, Thomson, hasting,
Graham, Rufus , stein, mquigan, dVDM
Lang, Redpath , Johnson , …
Jones, Harris, …
Hogg, kinghorn

Over the Autumn guys like shooeman, kebble, turner, cherry, crosbie, Stein , Rufus and Lang need more time so they can be part of the 33 without panicking about them

[Mikey Brown]

Feels like Kebble is surely making the transition to 3, but along with Bhatti, McInally and Haining looked absolutely knackered after about 20 minutes yesterday. Dunno if it’s still just an experiment at this stage but options on both side look weak, particularly with Nel not up to 50/60 anymore.

Bhatti barging (someone else) in to that ruck fully from the wrong side yesterday was so soft and led directly to the Tongan try. Dell and Reid are well out of the picture but I really wish we had some more convincing depth at prop.

Cummings definitely has that fourth lock spot and some of those backrows outside the starting trio start really demanding a spot.

Scrumhalf is a weird one. Horne has been second choice for a while now but still really doesn’t feel like he’s been tested.

McGuigan has surely fallen way down the pecking order.

[Big D]

Don't think we learned anything that we didn't already know in that game.

we learned that Kinghorn can't pass off his left hand. Bit of an issue for a 10 in the gameplan we want to use

His passing has never been great off his left hand. I went into the game thinking Kinghorn isn't the answer as a 3rd 10 for the World Cup (that's the only logical reason for him playing there on Saturday) and it did nothing to change the mind of hopefully everyone.

The SRU meed to let the lad learn how to play 15 to the best of his ability.