England v Australia, Sat 13 Nov KO 5.30pm

[Magic_sponge]

Youngs did have a couple of decent kicks but generally I thought his performance was massively underwhelming. Acknowledging that I have only watched it live and haven't examined it closely, the number of times he either wasn't there at the breakdown, or took so long we got turned/were under unnecessary pressure or seemed completely unsure which direction to go was just unbearable. For me, he was one of, if not the, worst England player.

Steward I thought was great. Nothing spectacular maybe, but watching everyone else, it was nice just to have a bit of reliability to be honest.

Generally I left with a feeling of great frustration, but there were some bright sparks too. But against a better SA team, we're toast.

Positives though...Steward one tiny mistake on another fine performance. Smith was good when he had time but seriously hampered with Farrell at 10. Tuilagi had some decent ball time and made a few nice runs. Dombrandt carried well in his first cameo and Hill was lively too.

Youngs was dire. Slade fucked up at least two big opportunities. What has happened to our maul? Completely nullified by Australia. We didn't have the dominance in the scrum that I thought we would have. There was no improvement in attack and we left a shedload of points out there and still didn't look like we would score them.

Never felt so deflated after beating Australia this comfortably.

SA will sleep well this week.

Eh? His kicking controlled the game for England and he got the side moving when it was on. We'd have had another try earlier had Peyper not blocked him as he switched play in the Aussie 22 just after half time.

Scruffy performance but we controlled the game and put Australia to the sword fairly comfortably. Got some good experience into some young players.

Needs some fine tuning and the attack clearly hasn't settled yet but it's not going to just be there straight off the bat as we haven't played any meaningful games before today since the 6N ended.

[Mikey Brown]

Wow.

I only caught the first 10 minutes of the game and was gutted I had to go out as it looked entertaining. Finally got to catch up just now and it turned out I’d actually seen everything that game had to offer in the first 10. Blamire’s try was funny at least.

Pretty much the only thing I felt strongly about was my seething hatred for the Aussie 11 Wright. He was acting like a prick all game last week too and when he slapped Smith on the ground I was genuinely hoping someone would break his fucking nose. A red card might have spiced things up and at least drawn the TMOs attention to it. I think Farrell was the only one who saw it and certainly made his opinion known. Shame he didn’t get a chance to do a Lewsey/Rodgers job on him. What an absolute cunt.

It felt like we didn’t see anyone go more than 2 phases at any point after those early stages. I find it kind of hard to judge the jumbled midfield selection based on that to be honest.

2 of the Aussies could have been red carded but the refs have all backtracked on shots to the head now and they didn’t want to ruin the game. What the fuck was that loosehead doing trying to throw Lawes on his head?

Pretty awful contest really. One of those where it feels like someone is changing the scoreboard whenever you look away, yet nothing is actually happening. It was like the players were there to assist the spectacle of refereeing rather than the other way around.

Youngs - I just can’t even describe how tired I am of watching him.

[badback]

Are there any complaints that don't relate to the ridiculous selection?

Let's face it the best available 23 would have destroyed that Australia team easily.

God help us next week.

To my mind it was all the selection.

Unlike some on this board, I really rate Eddie. I think he’s a first class coach who has done an amazing job with England. But I don’t get that midfield selection at all. Perhaps he was trying to ease Smith into international rugby. If that’s the case, unless Farrell is injured, I suspect we’ll see him at 12 again especially against South Africa.

It’s not what I’d do. But then I’m not an international coach let alone one with Eddie’s record. Still, he’s got me perplexed on this one.

That easing process is patronising, at best. Farrell having a blue on the touchline in reaction to an apparent slight to Smith, then patting Smith on the head in a "good lad" kind of way was just not needed. Is Farrell the coach, or Eddie?

Yeah - maybe a coach needs someone like Farrell to keep the rest of the team on his side and ramped up and focused. And everyone who’s played with Farrell or coached him seems to rate him very highly. Of course, he is a good player. But the best 10? Come on. The best 12? I keep on thinking there must be something I’m missing. Perhaps it’s the goal kicking. But even that while good is not crazy good.

[badback]

Wow.

I only caught the first 10 minutes of the game and was gutted I had to go out as it looked entertaining. Finally got to catch up just now and it turned out I’d actually seen everything that game had to offer in the first 10. Blamire’s try was funny at least.

Pretty much the only thing I felt strongly about was my seething hatred for the Aussie 11 Wright. He was acting like a prick all game last week too and when he slapped Smith on the ground I was genuinely hoping someone would break his fucking nose. A red card might have spiced things up and at least drawn the TMOs attention to it. I think Farrell was the only one who saw it and certainly made his opinion known. Shame he didn’t get a chance to do a Lewsey/Rodgers job on him. What an absolute cunt.

It felt like we didn’t see anyone go more than 2 phases at any point after those early stages. I find it kind of hard to judge the jumbled midfield selection based on that to be honest.

2 of the Aussies could have been red carded but the refs have all backtracked on shots to the head now and they didn’t want to ruin the game. What the fuck was that loosehead doing trying to throw Lawes on his head?

Pretty awful contest really. One of those where it feels like someone is changing the scoreboard whenever you look away, yet nothing is actually happening. It was like the players were there to assist the spectacle of refereeing rather than the other way around.

Youngs - I just can’t even describe how tired I am of watching him.

Youngs was not great. But I do remember a couple of years ago when he was injured we looked like we really missed him.

[Oakboy]

It's hard not to harp on about it but did any of those other backs really enjoy playing with Youngs and Farrell? Game after game, I hear criticism of the others but wonder how much their effectiveness is restricted by the two undroppables. Jones gets praised for trying this and that but why did he not just try three AIs without the pair? He could easily then revert to selecting them if necessary.

[twitchy]

[fivepointer]

Problem we have at SH is that there has been no succession planning. We are left with Youngs, who has hogged all the caps, and a few talented younger players who will hopefully press on. If you want to get Smith in, then it does make sense to keep Youngs rather than put in one of the youngsters to start.
Again, if you want to take some of the pressure off Smith there is a case for having Farrell alongside.
Best we can hope for is Quirke/Randall get more and more game time this season, and Farrell gets rested for a bit of the 6N. I'm not too hopeful of that as Farrell does have the air of the undroppable about him, irrespective of his performances.
I do understand where Jones is coming from but the issues were staring us in the face last year and he did nothing about them.

[Scrumhead]

The thing is, you can’t ‘succession plan’ if you don’t have the players to do it. Robson has probably been hard done by, but I don’t actually think he’s any better than Youngs. Same goes for Spencer.

As for the last year …

Quirke is 20 and only has about 15 senior appearances. He wasn’t in a position to be picked a year ago.

Randall was brought in a year ago but has a bad habit of getting injured at the wrong time. He probably would have had 2/3 more caps but for that.

I like Mitchell, but he’s also had issues with injuries in the last year. This season is really his first decent run of games for a while.

Farrell won’t be dropped, but I think his injury could be relatively serious. He definitely didn’t look comfortable coming off. I’d move Tuilagi to 12, bring Marchant in at 13 (Slade has had so many chances and makes more mistakes than most) and then bring Malins or Radwan in on the wing (I like both so not too bothered which one).

[twitchy]

Faf is rumoured to be leaving sale so that is good news from an england perspective (although I always enjoy watching him).

[p/d]

A handsome win over Australia is a handsome win. The margin of it though had as much to do with how fragmented Aus became as to how cohesive England were. In truth as a spectacle it was at an alarmingly low level.

The outcome gives us another ‘win’ in the column and - most importantly- in Steward an fb of note.

Now onto next week so Jones can finally try and get the devil off his back

[Oakboy]

When was the last time we beat a good team?

[Which Tyler]

The thing is, you can’t ‘succession plan’ if you don’t have the players to do it. Robson has probably been hard done by, but I don’t actually think he’s any better than Youngs. Same goes for Spencer.

As for the last year …

Quirke is 20 and only has about 15 senior appearances. He wasn’t in a position to be picked a year ago.

Randall was brought in a year ago but has a bad habit of getting injured at the wrong time. He probably would have had 2/3 more caps but for that.

I like Mitchell, but he’s also had issues with injuries in the last year. This season is really his first decent run of games for a while.

Farrell won’t be dropped, but I think his injury could be relatively serious. He definitely didn’t look comfortable coming off. I’d move Tuilagi to 12, bring Marchant in at 13 (Slade has had so many chances and makes more mistakes than most) and then bring Malins or Radwan in on the wing (I like both so not too bothered which one).

[16th man]

The thing with proclamations like this is that the coach making them hopes they're sounding innovative and inspirational but generally just comes of as desperate and deluded.

For it to actually sound like the former it needs to be bring done on the basis of a settled coaching set up, with a squad that is winning using a grooved in plan A with a successful plan b, at which point, looking at a radical plan c is understandable. Where England are at the moment both with the revolving door of coaches and a squad that is going through overdue freshening, it just comes across as passing the buck to the players and l chucking shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.

[16th man]

When was the last time we beat a good team?

World Cup semi final was a the last time probably. The weird autumn tournament thing was mainly beating transitioning sides who were grasping the nettle of post World Cup changes, by hanging on too long to what had been successful.

[Oakboy]

It is difficult to assess outside of tournaments. Where are we compared with Scotland, for example - thinking about their AI results against Australia and SA?

I'd suggest that Scotland are closer to their ceiling than we are to ours but beyond that, I don't know. Scottish fans are happier than English ones, probably.

[WaspInWales]

There's so much Eddie is doing (with the team and his comments) that is setting off alarm bells for me, but what's more concerning about Eddie is trying to work out if he was serious about Steward's try being one of England's best tries...ever!

Really Eddie?

Great finish from Steward but he had an open gap to run at and it was a nice pass from Smith, but it was a fairly basic try or am I missing something?

Edit: Basic is perhaps harsh as it's a disservice to Steward. It was a nice try but I'd struggle to put it in any top time list.

Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk

[16th man]

if he was serious about Steward's try being one of England's best tries...ever!

Dead cat isn't it?

Just trying to distract people from what a shambles it all was.

[p/d]

The thing with proclamations like this is that the coach making them hopes they're sounding innovative and inspirational but generally just comes of as desperate and deluded.

This.
Farrell ending up as first receiver more often than not was more to with shoe horning him back in than innovative.
Little surprise that Slade reverted back to being average, forced to operate as a centre playing in the back 3 whilst Manu’s impact was telegraphed- one dummy run aside - and Youngs influence was once more dampened.

Mind you Morgan’s fellow DT reporters gave OF an 8, so wtf do I know.

[twitchy]

Do we know if genge and marler will be available for next week?

[Puja]

Do we know if genge and marler will be available for next week?

Marler allegedly, although he won't have much time to train. Genge is definitely ruled out as it'll still be within 10 days of his positive test.

Puja

[p/d]

Do we know if genge and marler will be available for next week?

Genge no.
Marker tested positive Monday, so yes - fitness etc aside

[Puja]

On a lighter note.

Also, this is ridiculous. Due to my internet being slow, I see that every time I open this page as my phone thinks about loading it, and it's not getting any less ridiculous with each repeat viewing.

Puja

[twitchy]

lol

[FKAS]

The thing with proclamations like this is that the coach making them hopes they're sounding innovative and inspirational but generally just comes of as desperate and deluded.

This.
Farrell ending up as first receiver more often than not was more to with shoe horning him back in than innovative.
Little surprise that Slade reverted back to being average, forced to operate as a centre playing in the back 3 whilst Manu’s impact was telegraphed- one dummy run aside - and Youngs influence was once more dampened.

Mind you Morgan’s fellow DT reporters gave OF an 8, so wtf do I know.

That's because we have one backs move that involves the ball going out the back and then the flyhalf picking an option from a couple of different runners. It does work, see Steward's try but it's a bit too obvious after the first three or four times we run it.

It at least works better with Manu and Steward in the side as they run lines. Poor Ford in the 6N got the same play but Slade and Daly both trying to run arcs away from him. He either go hammered or shipped it on for them to be run into touch.

[Scrumhead]

The thing with proclamations like this is that the coach making them hopes they're sounding innovative and inspirational but generally just comes of as desperate and deluded.

This.
Farrell ending up as first receiver more often than not was more to with shoe horning him back in than innovative.
Little surprise that Slade reverted back to being average, forced to operate as a centre playing in the back 3 whilst Manu’s impact was telegraphed- one dummy run aside - and Youngs influence was once more dampened.

Mind you Morgan’s fellow DT reporters gave OF an 8, so wtf do I know.

Oh come on. So things like Slade butchering a good try scoring opportunity by taking all of May’s space and killing another good move with a basic knock were someone else’s fault?

If they were isolated examples fair enough, but he frequently makes several costly mistakes.