Prem Final Tigers Vs Sarries

[FKAS]

15 Freddie Steward [55]
14 Chris Ashton [11]
13 Matías Moroni [35]
12 Guy Porter [44]
11 Harry Potter [40]
10 George Ford [128]
9 Richard Wigglesworth [36]
1 Ellis Genge (c) [110]
2 Julián Montoya [26]
3 Dan Cole [289]
4 Ollie Chessum [30]
5 Calum Green [90]
6 Hanro Liebenberg (vc) [58]
7 Tommy Reffell [77]
8 Jasper Wiese [44]

REPLACEMENTS
16 Charlie Clare [51]
17 Nephi Leatigaga [67]
18 Joe Heyes [100]
19 Harry Wells [155]
20 George Martin [38]
21 Ben Youngs [281]
22 Freddie Burns [102]
23 Matt Scott [46]

Saracens Men:

1 Mako Vunipola

2 Jamie George

3 Vincent Koch

4 Maro Itoje

5 Nick Isiekwe

6 Theo McFarland

7 Ben Earl

8 Billy Vunipola

9 Aled Davies

10 Owen Farrell (c)

11 Sean Maitland

12 Nick Tompkins

13 Elliot Daly

14 Max Malins

15 Alex Goode

Replacements:

16 Kapeli Pifeleti

17 Eroni Mawi

18 Alec Clarey

19 Jackson Wray

20 Andy Christie

21 Ivan van Zyl

22 Duncan Taylor

23 Alex Lozowski

[Banquo]

Understandable on Youngs. Two ex sarries OAPs with a point to prove as well- Ashton back in favour, is it a knock on from Kelly being injured again?

[Tigersman]

Potentially, although I think Ashton suits the game v Sarries than saints.

[Puja]

Surprising that Nadolo didn't make the bench. Would've thought he had more to offer in a game-changing sense than Scott, although I guess Scott has the advantage of being safer if Porter has a mare at 12. Aside from that, can't really argue with most of those decisions.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Porter was pretty good filling at 12 before.

I really hope Tigers win this.

The only alternative scenario I can stomach is Saracens winning only to fall foul of the financial audit and TBH, even I don’t really want that to happen.

[Peej]

Hard to look past Sarries to be honest, looking at those teams.

I'm not sure I get the Wigglesworth choice. Seems a bit too defensive for me. Borthwick as captain, rather than Borthwick as coach.

[FKAS]

Porter is a great utility player but he's not got the nous of a more natural 12. I think Porter might end up a very good 13. He seems happier in that channel.

I can only assume Nadolo isn't fully fit, he didn't look that comfortable last weekend and only played the final five mins. Perhaps picked up a niggle in the warm up or something like that.

If Wigglesworth wins this it will be the third club he's won a Prem title with. I think (could be wrong) he's previously won two against Tigers.

[FKAS]

Hard to look past Sarries to be honest, looking at those teams.

I'm not sure I get the Wigglesworth choice. Seems a bit too defensive for me. Borthwick as captain, rather than Borthwick as coach.

I expecting us to being the aerial bombardment and look to go to the set piece where possible. Sarries discipline isn't great and if we can control territory then we can hopefully force errors and penalties. Don't think it's going to be pretty from Tigers.

[Peej]

Has he won one and lost one?

[Banquo]

Hard to look past Sarries to be honest, looking at those teams.

I'm not sure I get the Wigglesworth choice. Seems a bit too defensive for me. Borthwick as captain, rather than Borthwick as coach.

I expecting us to being the aerial bombardment and look to go to the set piece where possible. Sarries discipline isn't great and if we can control territory then we can hopefully force errors and penalties. Don't think it's going to be pretty from Tigers.

Goode is excellent positionally so that has risks, But both sides, like most top teams now are all about territory.

[Puja]

Hard to look past Sarries to be honest, looking at those teams.

I'm not sure I get the Wigglesworth choice. Seems a bit too defensive for me. Borthwick as captain, rather than Borthwick as coach.

I don't know the teamsheets are radically different in quality

Genge/Montoya/Cole vs Mako/George/Koch - about equal
Chessum/Green vs Itoje/Isiekwe - definitely Saracens, as the order goes Itoje, gap, Chessum, Isiekwe, Green.
Liebenberg/Reffell/Wiese vs McFarland/Earl/BillyV - about equal
Wiggy/Ford vs Davies/Farrell - probably just in Leicester's favour due to Ford being better than Farrell
Porter/Moroni vs Tompkins/Daly - Saracens, although not by a huge amount as Daly's not the player he used to be at 13
Potter/Ashton/Steward vs Maitland/Malins/Goode - Leicester, as Potter>Maitland, Ashton<Malins, Steward>Goode

Leicester's bench is better by a distance, as the only player I'd rather swap would be Lozowski (although Clare vs Pifileti's not a great choice to have to make).

I think the difference might be that Saracens are a more settled side with a strong ethos. It's very early into the Borthwick regime, whereas McCall always gets his sides going to a very high quality, regardless of the actual players on the pitch.

Puja


Edited because apparently I lack simple reading skills and got Saracens' team wrong.

[Mellsblue]

Hard to look past Sarries to be honest, looking at those teams.

I'm not sure I get the Wigglesworth choice. Seems a bit too defensive for me. Borthwick as captain, rather than Borthwick as coach.

I don't know the teamsheets are radically different in quality

Genge/Montoya/Cole vs Mako/George/Koch - about equal
Chessum/Green vs Itoje/Swinson - just in Saracens' favour as the pecking order is Itoje, gap, Chessum, Green, Swinson.
Liebenberg/Reffell/Wiese vs McFarland/Earl/BillyV - about equal
Wiggy/Ford vs Davies/Farrell - probably just in Leicester's favour due to Ford being better than Farrell
Porter/Moroni vs Tompkins/Daly - Saracens, although not by a huge amount as Daly's not the player he used to be at 13
Potter/Ashton/Steward vs Maitland/Malins/Goode - Leicester, as Potter>Maitland, Ashton<Malins, Steward>Goode

Leicester's bench is better by a distance, as the only player I'd rather swap would be Lozowski (although Clare vs Pifileti's not a great choice to have to make).

I think the difference might be that Saracens are a more settled side with a strong ethos. It's very early into the Borthwick regime, whereas McCall always gets his sides going to a very high quality, regardless of the actual players on the pitch.

Puja

No Swinson, even on the bench. Actually no lock on the bench at all. They mustn’t be spending up to the cap to have to go into a final without a replacement lock and, as you say, the weaker bench. That or they’re a top heavy squad…..

[Puja]

No Swinson, even on the bench. Actually no lock on the bench at all. They mustn’t be spending up to the cap to have to go into a final without a replacement lock and, as you say, the weaker bench. That or they’re a top heavy squad…..

What fuck-up? I saw no fuck-up here.

I was surprised by the Saracens bench too, but I guess they have the option of moving McFarland forwards if a lock needs to go off.

Puja

[FKAS]

Has he won one and lost one?

Nah won two. Joined the year after Tigers beat Sarries in the final so was there for the year after 2010/11 when they won it. He also played for Sale when they beat Tigers in the 2005/06 final.

Re the Sarries bench, it looks like they know they'll be tired and Tigers will finish strong so they've packed in two tackle happy options on the bench. Christie isn't a bad jumper so should help them there if a lock was to go off. It's not the biggest pack so they'll have to back their ability to spoil the rolling maul rather than blast it, which to be fair could work. Scrum time there's no bulk to come on and offer additional shove if they are struggling but maybe having watched Saints tactics last weekend they might have other ideas.

[Banquo]

btw...feel a bit for JVP. Would he have got a bench slot had Youngs been the starter?

[Spiffy]

Hard to look past Sarries to be honest, looking at those teams.

I'm not sure I get the Wigglesworth choice. Seems a bit too defensive for me. Borthwick as captain, rather than Borthwick as coach.

I think Wiggy has always been a tad underrated. He is a crafty old sod, maybe a little conservative, but can attack when it's on. Hoping that he and Ford can boss their counterparts (if they can get some ball.)

[FKAS]

btw...feel a bit for JVP. Would he have got a bench slot had Youngs been the starter?

Borthwick has always said he picks the 23 to give the best 80 minutes performance the team can. In this case I suspect it's a case of the tactics counting against JVP. JVP was the go to bench option last weekend because Borthwick knew that Saints would start like a train and then fade badly. JVP came on early in the second half and delivered the tempo increase Tigers planned.

[Banquo]

Hard to look past Sarries to be honest, looking at those teams.

I'm not sure I get the Wigglesworth choice. Seems a bit too defensive for me. Borthwick as captain, rather than Borthwick as coach.

I think Wiggy has always been a tad underrated. He is a crafty old sod, maybe a little conservative, but can attack when it's on. Hoping that he and Ford can boss their counterparts (if they can get some ball.)

He's done very well in his career given his natural ability

[Banquo]

btw...feel a bit for JVP. Would he have got a bench slot had Youngs been the starter?

Borthwick has always said he picks the 23 to give the best 80 minutes performance the team can. In this case I suspect it's a case of the tactics counting against JVP. JVP was the go to bench option last weekend because Borthwick knew that Saints would start like a train and then fade badly. JVP came on early in the second half and delivered the tempo increase Tigers planned.

Unlike every other coach then...

IMO, Youngs would have been starting but for the week's events, which was kinda my point. Had he been starting, would back up slowing down the pace and experience been required.

[FKAS]

btw...feel a bit for JVP. Would he have got a bench slot had Youngs been the starter?

Borthwick has always said he picks the 23 to give the best 80 minutes performance the team can. In this case I suspect it's a case of the tactics counting against JVP. JVP was the go to bench option last weekend because Borthwick knew that Saints would start like a train and then fade badly. JVP came on early in the second half and delivered the tempo increase Tigers planned.

Unlike every other coach then...

IMO, Youngs would have been starting but for the week's events, which was kinda my point. Had he been starting, would back up slowing down the pace and experience been required.

Yes and no. Not an unusual tactic for Borthwick to leave his stronger players on the bench and deploy them in the second half to generate a bigger impact.

Youngs started the game after the big upheaval, this week won't be worse than last week. It's a Borthwick tactic. He's always got a plan and it's rarely the same as last week's. Part of most his plans is to use the Alex Walters backed fitness regime though.

[Oakboy]

Has there ever been a less popular final than this one? Only 19 replies (before this one) on RR on the morning of the match must say something. I will force myself to watch and I really hope both teams surprise me.

[fivepointer]

Its not a game that many neutrals will get excited about.

But there are some tasty individual match ups and it will be interesting to see which team gets to impose themselves on the other. I'm not expecting fireworks but finals seldom reach great heights.

[Banquo]

Borthwick has always said he picks the 23 to give the best 80 minutes performance the team can. In this case I suspect it's a case of the tactics counting against JVP. JVP was the go to bench option last weekend because Borthwick knew that Saints would start like a train and then fade badly. JVP came on early in the second half and delivered the tempo increase Tigers planned.

Unlike every other coach then...

IMO, Youngs would have been starting but for the week's events, which was kinda my point. Had he been starting, would back up slowing down the pace and experience been required.

Yes and no. Not an unusual tactic for Borthwick to leave his stronger players on the bench and deploy them in the second half to generate a bigger impact.

Youngs started the game after the big upheaval, this week won't be worse than last week. It's a Borthwick tactic. He's always got a plan and it's rarely the same as last week's. Part of most his plans is to use the Alex Walters backed fitness regime though.

Its hardly novel for a coach to have a plan . I am surprised at starting Wigglesworth tho if Youngs is 100% focused.

[Banquo]

Enjoy the game! Should be a belter.

[Adam_P]

"Ford's kicking game and Farrell's ability to take the ball to the line" - I'm sorry Austin, what?!