Australia Tour Squad

[FKAS]

Think Ireland have a lot to do to get close considering Leinster's season ended in such disappointment on two fronts, although the fact that the world's likeliest place to catch covid at the moment seems to be the All Blacks camp tilts the odds back in their favour somewhat. I have just had a look at the Boks team to play Wales on Saturday and I'd suggest anyone of a Welsh persuasion should be watching that one through their fingers. Conversely, I feel weirdly optimistic about England: quite a lot of the coverage over on the Roar seems to suggest they're focusing on the wrong areas, which is perhaps because England are confusing even themselves at the moment, let alone their opposition.

I think there's a much bigger difference between Ireland A and Ireland than there is between Maori All Blacks and the All Blacks. New Zealand has the most enviable depth of any rugby nation, while Ireland have been known to cap Mike Haley and Billy Burns in an attempt to expand their available player pool, but their 1st XXIII is superb. I expect to see it being very close at the weekend.

Puja

The Irish selection strategy of 'Just pick Leinster' certainly backfired a bit tonight with Frawley, no idea why you play a young 12 at 10 ahead of promising 10s from other provinces like Healy. Really think that mentally a squad with such a high Leinster contingent is going to struggle to get themselves properly up for another long tour at the end of a long and ultimately heartbreaking season too.

I wonder if it's the same situation as Furbank at 10 for England. Farrell looking for a squad man who can act as a third flyhalf in case of emergencies but isn't going to use up a squad place as just a flyhalf.

[fivepointer]

Is it just me who honestly has no clue as to how this will go? Aus seem to be fairly strong at the moment, I can see England losing all the games badly, slightly, winning them slightly, or even winning them solidly if things click a little.

My expectations arent high. I think we'll win a test but that might just be as good as it gets.

No way will we emulate what we did in 2016.

[Banquo]

Nah, Find all/Tindall

I... didn't even spot that when you drew my attention to a typo...

No, I meant he wore the 13 shirt for the Lions in the tests in 97, for some unknown reason (as I'd referenced the retirement of the Bath shirt, I'd got that bit....and then it became a superstition, which somehow stopped on that tour). I also stopped wearing 13 after I broke my jaw.

Oh, and Tindall inserted makes a lot more sense. As an aside, Greenwood actively wanted to wear 13 even when playing inside centre; Tindall debuted in the 13 shirt for England.

Preferences, typical behaviour, not absolutes.
Neither Guscott nor Tindall liked wearing the 13 shirt, for Bath, England or the Lions: (initially) because of the Bath shirt retirement (though it may then have become a personal superstition). That doesn't mean they got an allergic reaction that prevented them from wearing the number if it was insisted on by others; or that they would make themselves unavailable if it was 13 or no cap.

Lions '97 is right at the beginning of the professional era, when it was first being mooted that anything other than numbering teams 1-15 is too confusing for all those new fans who would love rugby if it weren't for that - so Bath started issuing a 13 shirt, Leicester lost their letters, Bristol started counting upwards...
I suspect that Guscott was up against the management on wearing 13; but that's the exception for him, not the rule.

well, yes. Just was originally making the point that it wasn't only for Bath that Guscott didn't wear 13.

[Banquo]

Is it just me who honestly has no clue as to how this will go? Aus seem to be fairly strong at the moment, I can see England losing all the games badly, slightly, winning them slightly, or even winning them solidly if things click a little.

yep. I'd back us to get stronger over the series though.

[Oakboy]

Is it just me who honestly has no clue as to how this will go? Aus seem to be fairly strong at the moment, I can see England losing all the games badly, slightly, winning them slightly, or even winning them solidly if things click a little.

yep. I'd back us to get stronger over the series though.

Interesting comment. I wonder if our strength in depth is on the line. A few injuries to important players seems more crucial than normal. Take out Itoje, Smith and Curry, for example. Or Farrell, LCD and Billy V. I know injuries can always happen but on top of players left behind? It just feels at a critical point.

[Which Tyler]

Actually we lost our letters, but we did it properly...

Ah yes, you had weird lettering; sorry, being an idiot.
I'm sure there was also someone who used numbers but put them backwards.

well, yes. Just was originally making the point that it wasn't only for Bath that Guscott didn't wear 13.

My apple orgies - I obviously got your point completely arse about face - as above, I'm being an idiot today.

[Banquo]

Is it just me who honestly has no clue as to how this will go? Aus seem to be fairly strong at the moment, I can see England losing all the games badly, slightly, winning them slightly, or even winning them solidly if things click a little.

yep. I'd back us to get stronger over the series though.

Interesting comment. I wonder if our strength in depth is on the line. A few injuries to important players seems more crucial than normal. Take out Itoje, Smith and Curry, for example. Or Farrell, LCD and Billy V. I know injuries can always happen but on top of players left behind? It just feels at a critical point.

Generally if Eddie has a squad for a long period, the performances improve. IMO we lack strength, let alone depth as a separate point.

[jimKRFC]

Actually we lost our letters, but we did it properly...

Ah yes, you had weird lettering; sorry, being an idiot.
I'm sure there was also someone who used numbers but put them backwards.

What do you mean - makes complete sense to start at one end of the side, get halfway through then go from the other end.... To be honest the old "letters" debate is still a topic on the unoffical board.

Not sure about numbering the other way but I know a couple of teams used to use no numbers or letters.

[Banquo]

Actually we lost our letters, but we did it properly...

Ah yes, you had weird lettering; sorry, being an idiot.
I'm sure there was also someone who used numbers but put them backwards.

well, yes. Just was originally making the point that it wasn't only for Bath that Guscott didn't wear 13.

My apple orgies - I obviously got your point completely arse about face - as above, I'm being an idiot today.

No worries, I was wondering why we were at odds whilst agreeing

and on the numbering, back in the day- even before my time- the numbering (in some places) started with the FB as number 1, a la league. Not sure when that changed - Dors?

[Puja]

Bristol started counting upwards...

Actually we lost our letters, but we did it properly...

A-G: Full back to 9
H-O: Loose head to 8

As opposed to Leicester who did weirdly:
A - H: Loose head to Open side (6-F, 8-G, 7-O)
I-O: 9 to full back

How is the Leicester way more weird than Bristol's? A=1, B=2, C=3 (don't ask about the back row). How is A=15 making sense?

I blame Harlequins. They tried to introduce squad numbers to sell shirts and that was the tipping point that forced the ruling.

Puja

[FKAS]

Bristol started counting upwards...

Actually we lost our letters, but we did it properly...

A-G: Full back to 9
H-O: Loose head to 8

As opposed to Leicester who did weirdly:
A - H: Loose head to Open side (6-F, 8-G, 7-O)
I-O: 9 to full back

How is the Leicester way more weird than Bristol's? A=1, B=2, C=3 (don't ask about the back row). How is A=15 making sense?

I blame Harlequins. They tried to introduce squad numbers to sell shirts and that was the tipping point that forced the ruling.

Puja

Tigers not only did the numbering properly, we still do it properly only the academy shirts and under the badge on the first team shirts.

[fivepointer]

Ewels out of tour with knee injury. Interesting replacement in Sam Jefferies.

[Mikey Brown]

Bristol... flanker? Or is he actually a lock?

Shame for Ewels on a personal level, but, er, yeah.

[Scrumhead]

I think Jeffries is actually Aussie by birth so maybe Eddie wanted to give him a trip home? A bit of a leftfield pick, but with the possible exception of Tizard who hasn’t been involved in any England squads, I guess there isn’t really a like-for-like lock to draft in. Jeffries has been in camp so at least has that in his favour. I’d have much preferred Ted Hill though.

Hopefully Ewels’ injury means that Isiekwe or Chessum get more opportunities. I wonder if we’ll see Lawes used as a lock now too?

Interesting Aussie side - Dave Porecki (formerly of London Irish) and Caderyn Neville (a 33yr old lock) on dayboo.

[Peej]

Maybe Jeffries was already in Australia.

[Raggs]

Maybe Jeffries was already in Australia.

My guess is exactly that, he was there and they needed someone to hold tackle bags.

[Scrumhead]

Team's up: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61992784

1. Genge
2. George
3. Stuart
4. Itoje
5. Hill
6. Lawes (c)
7. Curry
8. B. Vunipola
9. Care
10. Smith
11. Cokanasiga
12. Farrell
13. Marchant
14. Nowell
15. Steward

16. Cowan-Dickie 17. M. Vunipola 18. Heyes 19. Chessum 20. Ludlam 21. van Poortvliet 22. Porter 23. Arundell

Some surprises there, but overall I quite like it.

[Mellsblue]

Does anybody know what the team is for Saturday?

[Puja]

Or whether Hinckly's got a new contract?

Puja

[chris1850]

I think Jeffries is actually Aussie by birth so maybe Eddie wanted to give him a trip home? A bit of a leftfield pick, but with the possible exception of Tizard who hasn’t been involved in any England squads, I guess there isn’t really a like-for-like lock to draft in. Jeffries has been in camp so at least has that in his favour. I’d have much preferred Ted Hill though.

Hopefully Ewels’ injury means that Isiekwe or Chessum get more opportunities. I wonder if we’ll see Lawes used as a lock now too?

Interesting Aussie side - Dave Porecki (formerly of London Irish) and Caderyn Neville (a 33yr old lock) on dayboo.

Think you're confusing two Sam Jeffries!? The one that plays for Bristol was born in Chelmsford and is not to be confused with the Aussie player of the same name!

[jimKRFC]

How is the Leicester way more weird than Bristol's? A=1, B=2, C=3 (don't ask about the back row). How is A=15 making sense?

I blame Harlequins. They tried to introduce squad numbers to sell shirts and that was the tipping point that forced the ruling.

I was being sarcastic - Bristol's way made no sense what so ever... Need more smiley options!

Bristol... flanker? Or is he actually a lock?

Shame for Ewels on a personal level, but, er, yeah.

Sam has played a bit, mainly he's gone there for a spell at the end of games recently but he did play there a bit before he was out with his knee injuries. As Chris said he's from Chelmsford and not Australia.

[Puja]

Is it just me who honestly has no clue as to how this will go? Aus seem to be fairly strong at the moment, I can see England losing all the games badly, slightly, winning them slightly, or even winning them solidly if things click a little.

yep. I'd back us to get stronger over the series though.

Interesting comment. I wonder if our strength in depth is on the line. A few injuries to important players seems more crucial than normal. Take out Itoje, Smith and Curry, for example. Or Farrell, LCD and Billy V. I know injuries can always happen but on top of players left behind? It just feels at a critical point.

We are down a few players from our first choice XXIII through injury/unavailability anyway - Marler, Sinckler, Launchbury, Youngs, May/Watson (and Ewels, of course). Wouldn't really be surprising if losing 3 more made us look weak.

Puja

[Adam_P]

A bit of a leftfield pick, but with the possible exception of Tizard who hasn’t been involved in any England squads, I guess there isn’t really a like-for-like lock to draft in.

Not quite like-for-like, as he's actually good, but what about Ribbans?

[Oakboy]

yep. I'd back us to get stronger over the series though.

Interesting comment. I wonder if our strength in depth is on the line. A few injuries to important players seems more crucial than normal. Take out Itoje, Smith and Curry, for example. Or Farrell, LCD and Billy V. I know injuries can always happen but on top of players left behind? It just feels at a critical point.

We are down a few players from our first choice XXIII through injury/unavailability anyway - Marler, Sinckler, Launchbury, Youngs, May/Watson (and Ewels, of course). Wouldn't really be surprising if losing 3 more made us look weak.

Puja

Dombrandt, Simmonds and Daly too. It adds up.

[Banquo]

A bit of a leftfield pick, but with the possible exception of Tizard who hasn’t been involved in any England squads, I guess there isn’t really a like-for-like lock to draft in.

Not quite like-for-like, as he's actually good, but what about Ribbans?

I hear he is 'managing' a chronic back condition.