Australia v England - second test

[Epaminondas Pules]

The England Rugby motm (fan voted) was JVP

[Banquo]

The England Rugby motm (fan voted) was JVP

Obvs.
Though it was Billy.

[Banquo]

I thought he played ok and his motm was more a reflection of how distinctly average everyone else was. For me, only JVP, Lawes and Billy were obviously better with Stuart perhaps edging ahead. I thought it was a low quality (and pretty boring) match. Bad times.

Without being picky, the guys you mention were very good not average. And Faz’s average isn’t very good.

[Mellsblue]

I thought he played ok and his motm was more a reflection of how distinctly average everyone else was. For me, only JVP, Lawes and Billy were obviously better with Stuart perhaps edging ahead. I thought it was a low quality (and pretty boring) match. Bad times.

Without being picky, the guys you mention were very good not average. And Faz’s average isn’t very good.

Yep, fair. Poor wording. They were good but the rest in general were below par. In my defence, I’ve had a couple of beverages…

[Banquo]

I thought he played ok and his motm was more a reflection of how distinctly average everyone else was. For me, only JVP, Lawes and Billy were obviously better with Stuart perhaps edging ahead. I thought it was a low quality (and pretty boring) match. Bad times.

Without being picky, the guys you mention were very good not average. And Faz’s average isn’t very good.

Yep, fair. Poor wording. They were good but the rest in general were below par. In my defence, I’ve had a couple of beverages…

Me three. Ah well..

[p/d]

I thought he played ok and his motm was more a reflection of how distinctly average everyone else was. For me, only JVP, Lawes and Billy were obviously better with Stuart perhaps edging ahead. I thought it was a low quality (and pretty boring) match. Bad times.

Without being picky, the guys you mention were very good not average. And Faz’s average isn’t very good.

Farrell’s game has become as predictable as Mako’s contacts. I’m actually starting to miss his late high hits and pissing off the ref

[Mellsblue]

I know me moan about the England team and players but it could be worse, we could support Scotland.

[Scrumhead]

We miss Itoje and Curry when they're not on the pitch. Our other options may be good prem players but they're not international class

I agree on your first sentence, but the second one is complete crap.

Underhill and Ludlam might not be as good as Curry but to suggest they’re ‘not international class’ is total bullshit.

Chessum is light years away from Itoje, but that’s not unexpected given the gulf in experience, but so far he’s looked at home in test rugby.

Fair point. I phrased it badly. Meant that Chessum and Underhill are a step down from Itoje and Curry, and it showed tbh

To be fair, I phrased it worse. I didn’t intend to come across as aggressively as it reads, so apologies for being a knob.

[Mikey Brown]

I know me moan about the England team and players but it could be worse, we could support Scotland.

Haha. I was just thinking to myself how Charlie Ewels' inclusion in any sort of England squad is mocked, yet Gilchrist is almost his exact doppelgänger (lineout nerd maybe but a penalty magnet with Borthwick-esque physicality) and currently Scotland captain.

Dire stuff, having watched NZ, Aus and SA lose at home that I'm worried Scotland are going to let the NH down against a pretty ropey looking Argentina.

[Mellsblue]

That said, both Scotland centres have cut glorious lines for tries that we sassenach can only dream of.

[Mikey Brown]

Yep, much better second half. I've actually been thinking lately that England could really do with a running threat at centre who can get over the gainline.

[Danno]

We miss Itoje and Curry when they're not on the pitch. Our other options may be good prem players but they're not international class

I agree on your first sentence, but the second one is complete crap.

Underhill and Ludlam might not be as good as Curry but to suggest they’re ‘not international class’ is total bullshit.

Chessum is light years away from Itoje, but that’s not unexpected given the gulf in experience, but so far he’s looked at home in test rugby.

Chris1850 had this to say, but accidentally reported the post rather than replying:

"Fair point. I probably phrased it badly. Meant that Chesssum and Underhill are a step down from Itoje and Curry and it showed tbh."

Mod

Ooh the old quote vs edit has evolved some.

Unlike England's attack.

[Danno]

I thought this would have been one of the odd games where both lovers and haters could agree he was just totally fine. Not much more, not much less. Ah well.

The way Smith is playing is a concern. We don’t look set up to make the most of his strengths but his general skill execution just isn’t where it should be. God knows what’s happened to his kicking, some real aimless stuff in there.

Maybe Faz/Porter/Marchant might see our attack spring in to life but I’d be a little bit surprised.

As you say Farrell was fine. Not motm, but fine nonetheless. The problem for me he is half of a 10/12 axis that looks terribly at sea. Smith is starting to look a luxury this side currently doesn’t need, and that isn’t where we should be. As you say wouldn’t be surprised to see Farrell with Porter and Marchant next week. (But that is what I wanted for this game)

We've been so gaslighted by Farrell that an inside centre making one run for 6 yards, missing three tackles out of 10, conceding one turnover and one penalty, kicking with mediocrity from hand, and even missing one kick at goal is agreed as being 'fine' and also MOTM.

Lol.

Pathetic really. But I suppose nigh on 2 full decades of trying to fill the shirt with an actual 12 will do that.

[Freddo]

It still upsets me that we never got to see a Stuart Abbott, Ollie Smith centre partnership.

I thought we were decent today with room for improvement. Injuries permitting I would probably keep the same side for next week but I'd put Marchant back in.

[FKAS]

It still upsets me that we never got to see a Stuart Abbott, Ollie Smith centre partnership.

I thought we were decent today with room for improvement. Injuries permitting I would probably keep the same side for next week but I'd put Marchant back in.

Abbott/Smith could have done the lot. Shame it never worked out for those two.

Would anyone be surprised if Eddie brought Marchant back in on the wing with the re-emergence of his three centre selection he looked at in the AIs?

[Oakboy]

Can the Quins fans tell me if Smith has ever before played 160 minutes and carried the ball so few metres.

[Puja]

Can the Quins fans tell me if Smith has ever before played 160 minutes and carried the ball so few metres.

I mean, yes, absolutely. He had a pretty rubbish season after his first breakout. I'd imagine that one was his inside centre's fault as well.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Can the Quins fans tell me if Smith has ever before played 160 minutes and carried the ball so few metres.

He had a pretty rubbish season after his first breakout.
Puja

He did?!?!?

[Mellsblue]

Can the Quins fans tell me if Smith has ever before played 160 minutes and carried the ball so few metres.

The way England played couldn’t be much further away from how Quins play so I doubt it. He looks thoroughly confused with what is going on.

[Raggs]

I'd trust him to adapt. He's had maybe 10 caps? Still very young and learning. Stick with him and Farrell from here on out in my mind. Ford comes back into the squad for the RWC warmups and rwc itself.

[Puja]

Can the Quins fans tell me if Smith has ever before played 160 minutes and carried the ball so few metres.

He had a pretty rubbish season after his first breakout.
Puja

He did?!?!?

He didn't? I thought there was a season where he regressed a bit and struggled getting game time ahead of James Lang. Please note before the board bursts into full hyperbole, I'm not saying he's not a very good player, I'm simply saying that it's not unheard of for him to have an occasional run of bad form like a human does and this isn't some unprecedented fall caused solely by Jones/Farrell.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Gotta cut a young player some slack but Smith doesnt look at all settled and isnt producing the kind of play that got him selected.
Different scenario/players with club and country but even some of his basics at times just havent held up well.

[Mellsblue]

He had a pretty rubbish season after his first breakout.
Puja

He did?!?!?

He didn't? I thought there was a season where he regressed a bit and struggled getting game time ahead of James Lang. Please note before the board bursts into full hyperbole, I'm not saying he's not a very good player, I'm simply saying that it's not unheard of for him to have an occasional run of bad form like a human does and this isn't some unprecedented fall caused solely by Jones/Farrell.

Puja

It’s longer than a month ago so classed as the vague mists of generations ago as far as my long term memory goes but I don’t remember it being pretty rubbish. All subjective and dependent on what you’d classify as pretty rubbish, I suppose.

[p/d]

Would have thought circumstances have had a negative impact. Relieved of kicking duties and ‘sharing’ (at best) a game management role can change mental preparation, change focus and see an instinctive player become, well, average. Not Farrell’s fault but it might just be someone like Simmonds would be better suited if Jones persists with Farrell at 12.
Or simply start one at 10 and the other on the bench

[Mellsblue]

see an instinctive player become, well, average.

Spot on.