Australia vs England - Third Test

[Banquo]

Thought Hill went well overall this tour. No brainless penalties in terms of play, now to just tell him to stop being brainless in terms of niggle. Lawes keeps improving at 6, his shirt to lose. JVP mostly very good. Steward is a superbly reassuring player to have. Thought Freeman went very well too. As always Nowell went well, he's the 13 we need. Shame he plays wing.

agreed, bar Nowell as a 13.

[Banquo]

So I think we have our starting pack sorted now, as long as Hill can stop being a dick. We have our starting 9 too, and we have Freeman and Steward somewhere in the squad. For me midfield and wings are still up for grabs, and a lot of the bench. I’d have Willis and Chessum somewhere about. No idea what to do with the gaps in the backs, except that Marchant should be starting.

Not sure if JVP keeps the shirt when Quirke is fit and first choice (especially playing alongside Ford) but he's the man in possession for now.

RWC tomorrow, then 10. Ford 12. Farrell 13. Machant 22. Tuilagi

RWC in a year's time, then 10. Smith/Ford/Farrell 12. Farrell/Kelly/Ojomo 13. Marchant/Tuilagi/NotPorter


Back 3 are currently Steward and Freeman, with 1 of May, Cokanasiga, Nowell with Arundel and Radwan leading the charge behind them. But then wing is also the easiest slot for a bolter to find a place; I also wouldn't completely rule out the likes of Malins/Losowski as a utility back

I didn't mean I couldnt name players for the midfield.......

[Freddo]

So I think we have our starting pack sorted now, as long as Hill can stop being a dick. We have our starting 9 too, and we have Freeman and Steward somewhere in the squad. For me midfield and wings are still up for grabs, and a lot of the bench. I’d have Willis and Chessum somewhere about. No idea what to do with the gaps in the backs, except that Marchant should be starting.

Not sure if JVP keeps the shirt when Quirke is fit and first choice (especially playing alongside Ford) but he's the man in possession for now.

RWC tomorrow, then 10. Ford 12. Farrell 13. Machant 22. Tuilagi

RWC in a year's time, then 10. Smith/Ford/Farrell 12. Farrell/Kelly/Ojomo 13. Marchant/Tuilagi/NotPorter


Back 3 are currently Steward and Freeman, with 1 of May, Cokanasiga, Nowell with Arundel and Radwan leading the charge behind them. But then wing is also the easiest slot for a bolter to find a place; I also wouldn't completely rule out the likes of Malins/Losowski as a utility back

Think Watson will be straight back in once he is fit.

I was pretty critical of Steward a couple of weeks ago but he was excellent today. I like it when players make me eat humble pie.

[Banquo]

So I think we have our starting pack sorted now, as long as Hill can stop being a dick. We have our starting 9 too, and we have Freeman and Steward somewhere in the squad. For me midfield and wings are still up for grabs, and a lot of the bench. I’d have Willis and Chessum somewhere about. No idea what to do with the gaps in the backs, except that Marchant should be starting.

Not sure if JVP keeps the shirt when Quirke is fit and first choice (especially playing alongside Ford) but he's the man in possession for now.

RWC tomorrow, then 10. Ford 12. Farrell 13. Machant 22. Tuilagi

RWC in a year's time, then 10. Smith/Ford/Farrell 12. Farrell/Kelly/Ojomo 13. Marchant/Tuilagi/NotPorter


Back 3 are currently Steward and Freeman, with 1 of May, Cokanasiga, Nowell with Arundel and Radwan leading the charge behind them. But then wing is also the easiest slot for a bolter to find a place; I also wouldn't completely rule out the likes of Malins/Losowski as a utility back

Think Watson will be straight back in once he is fit.

I was pretty critical of Steward a couple of weeks ago but he was excellent today. I like it when players make me eat humble pie.

I think need to see cumulative impact of injuries on Watsons pace and mobility.
I like Steward a lot, and Freeman….think need some real gas to complement them, not that Freeman is slow.

[32nd Man]

And the latest English contribution is another weak effort from Carley.

[Banquo]

And the latest English contribution is another weak effort from Carley.

cant believe he even would ref pub games

[loudnconfident]

Kerevi not happy with Player of the Series award... Understandably

It was Korobete wasn't it?

Er... Yes

[Mellsblue]

And the latest English contribution is another weak effort from Carley.

cant believe he even would ref pub games

Seconded. Him and ‘Tempo’ are both along way below par… just like Rory!!!!

[Oakboy]

Everyone seems to have written off Slade and Daly. I doubt Jones will dump Slade but he might have given up on Daly. I still think that is bizarre, given what a class international winger he was. Maybe he still would be had Jones not messed his mind with FB duties.

I wonder where Marchant figures now. Winning the two matches without him in the 23, and thus the series, could well have finished his international career. If so, I think that is horrendous use of best resources on a par with spoiling Daly, the winger.

[Puja]

Lawes (who is not that good at the breakdown) with another great breakdown penalty!

When was this last leveled at him?

Ask Puja and P/D.

I'll eat that one - Lawes has been very good the past two tests. I still think it's a crying shame to have Willis/Underhill/Curry and somehow contrive a system to only pick one of them, but I now believe in Lawes as an international 6 after that.

Our defence is just shocking and I don't know what Seibold is doing. We seem to be neither drifting nor blitzing and instead coming halfway up and then treading water in a very disconnected fashion. We're narrow, we don't put the decision-makers under hard pressure, every outside defender feels like they're looking inwards (which is possibly forgivable given the number of tackles missed by our inside defence) and we're just missing simple, basic one-on-one tackles where nothing magical is being done. Even when we're completing a tackle, it's rarely dominant and there were so many where a little half-break was made and the tackle was only finished as a last-ditch scrag. Did Australia have to do anything particularly special to score their tries, or did they just either pass it around us or run at us until a basic mistake was made.

I'm not turning down a series victory away in Australia and there were some notable positives, but let's be real - if that was against Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, or probably even Wales, they'd have murdered us with that porous a defence.

Puja

[fivepointer]

There might be question marks about Siebold but what the heck has Gleeson brought to this team?

Despite our lack of attacking edge we won the series. Thats no mean feat and, given results are all, we should be glad about that.
I think some players enhanced their reputations - JVP, Steward, Genge, Lawes, Billy in particular and there was good signs from Stuart, Chessum, Arundell and Freeman.
The biggest disappointment was Marcus Smith, who never played with the freedom and creativity he's capable of and didnt impose himself at all.
Porter will be lucky to feature again and i'm not sure Cokanasiga will either. Care is surely not going to be retained.

[Oakboy]

Is Randall dead and buried?

With the eternal 12 debate unresolved will Jones persist with Farrell in the shirt? If so, does Ford return when fit with Smith still in the squad? If not, will Ford still come back and will that push Smith out of the squad?

Thinking further about 9/10 how will the Quirke/Ford club combination affect the debate? Might it be too good to ignore?

[Beasties]

Is Randall dead and buried?

With the eternal 12 debate unresolved will Jones persist with Farrell in the shirt? If so, does Ford return when fit with Smith still in the squad? If not, will Ford still come back and will that push Smith out of the squad?

Thinking further about 9/10 how will the Quirke/Ford club combination affect the debate? Might it be too good to ignore?

Quirke/Ford has the potential for some vintage Eddie nothing-to-see-here stuff. But there’s no indication that he doesn’t rate Quirke, wait and see…

[FKAS]

When was this last leveled at him?

Ask Puja and P/D.

I'll eat that one - Lawes has been very good the past two tests. I still think it's a crying shame to have Willis/Underhill/Curry and somehow contrive a system to only pick one of them, but I now believe in Lawes as an international 6 after that.

Our defence is just shocking and I don't know what Seibold is doing. We seem to be neither drifting nor blitzing and instead coming halfway up and then treading water in a very disconnected fashion. We're narrow, we don't put the decision-makers under hard pressure, every outside defender feels like they're looking inwards (which is possibly forgivable given the number of tackles missed by our inside defence) and we're just missing simple, basic one-on-one tackles where nothing magical is being done. Even when we're completing a tackle, it's rarely dominant and there were so many where a little half-break was made and the tackle was only finished as a last-ditch scrag. Did Australia have to do anything particularly special to score their tries, or did they just either pass it around us or run at us until a basic mistake was made.

I'm not turning down a series victory away in Australia and there were some notable positives, but let's be real - if that was against Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, or probably even Wales, they'd have murdered us with that porous a defence.

Puja

Well the defensive structure seemed to be the centres shooting out and cutting off the wide ball in the second test, sort of worked with the Aussies playing narrow but more missed tackles than we'd like.

From what's been said on radio and from the highlights I've seen it seems like we went for same again, Australia we waiting for it and so picked off Porter knowing that the wings don't follow the 13 up and that Farrell doesn't have the pace to cover across. Porter didn't have the experience to adjust on the fly and got exposed. He works hard and is aggressive but that was used against him. A tough lesson to learn.

I'm not sure how our defence coach didn't see the Aussie analysts picking out what we were doing though. Pretty uninspired thinking so far from our new defence coach. Him and Gleeson could well be under the microscope sooner rather than later.

[fivepointer]

Is Randall dead and buried?

With the eternal 12 debate unresolved will Jones persist with Farrell in the shirt? If so, does Ford return when fit with Smith still in the squad? If not, will Ford still come back and will that push Smith out of the squad?

Thinking further about 9/10 how will the Quirke/Ford club combination affect the debate? Might it be too good to ignore?

Possibly. Quite a demotion to lose out to Care initially and then leapfrogged by JVP. I like Randall but the game has to open up for him to be at his most effective.
He and a few others saw no action on the tour, Rodd, Walker, Schickerling, Ewels, Jeffries, May, Furbank and Dingwall.

[Mellsblue]

Is Randall dead and buried?

With the eternal 12 debate unresolved will Jones persist with Farrell in the shirt? If so, does Ford return when fit with Smith still in the squad? If not, will Ford still come back and will that push Smith out of the squad?

Thinking further about 9/10 how will the Quirke/Ford club combination affect the debate? Might it be too good to ignore?

Possibly. Quite a demotion to lose out to Care initially and then leapfrogged by JVP. I like Randall but the game has to open up for him to be at his most effective.
He and a few others saw no action on the tour, Rodd, Walker, Schickerling, Ewels, Jeffries, May, Furbank and Dingwall.

Dingwall was injured a few days before the second test. Geoff Reece was also not picked.

[p/d]

Everyone seems to have written off Slade and Daly. I doubt Jones will dump Slade but he might have given up on Daly. I still think that is bizarre, given what a class international winger he was. Maybe he still would be had Jones not messed his mind with FB duties.

I wonder where Marchant figures now. Winning the two matches without him in the 23, and thus the series, could well have finished his international career. If so, I think that is horrendous use of best resources on a par with spoiling Daly, the winger.

Our 10,12 & 13 spots look as unsettled as Depp and Heard. Just go with the form 10 and then hope Kelly and Dingwall get game time to join Marchant, Manu, Slade, Freeman, Daly and Lozowski for the 12 and 13 shirts

[Oakboy]

Everyone seems to have written off Slade and Daly. I doubt Jones will dump Slade but he might have given up on Daly. I still think that is bizarre, given what a class international winger he was. Maybe he still would be had Jones not messed his mind with FB duties.

I wonder where Marchant figures now. Winning the two matches without him in the 23, and thus the series, could well have finished his international career. If so, I think that is horrendous use of best resources on a par with spoiling Daly, the winger.

Our 10,12 & 13 spots look as unsettled as Depp and Heard. Just go with the form 10 and then hope Kelly and Dingwall get game time to join Marchant, Manu, Slade, Freeman, Daly and Lozowski for the 12 and 13 shirts

Agreed, but will Jones ever omit Farrell from the starting XV no matter how much better another FH is playing? I'd settle for Farrell at 10 as a definite and work on the rest. It's not the best use of resources overall but it's the best policy under Jones - unfortunately.

[chris1850]

Is Randall dead and buried?

With the eternal 12 debate unresolved will Jones persist with Farrell in the shirt? If so, does Ford return when fit with Smith still in the squad? If not, will Ford still come back and will that push Smith out of the squad?

Thinking further about 9/10 how will the Quirke/Ford club combination affect the debate? Might it be too good to ignore?

Won't see the Quirke/Ford club combination until Januarry by all accounts. And then it's got to develop.

[Oakboy]

Is Randall dead and buried?

With the eternal 12 debate unresolved will Jones persist with Farrell in the shirt? If so, does Ford return when fit with Smith still in the squad? If not, will Ford still come back and will that push Smith out of the squad?

Thinking further about 9/10 how will the Quirke/Ford club combination affect the debate? Might it be too good to ignore?

Won't see the Quirke/Ford club combination until Januarry by all accounts. And then it's got to develop.

Ford's recovery schedule or both?

[Banquo]

Ask Puja and P/D.

I'll eat that one - Lawes has been very good the past two tests. I still think it's a crying shame to have Willis/Underhill/Curry and somehow contrive a system to only pick one of them, but I now believe in Lawes as an international 6 after that.

Our defence is just shocking and I don't know what Seibold is doing. We seem to be neither drifting nor blitzing and instead coming halfway up and then treading water in a very disconnected fashion. We're narrow, we don't put the decision-makers under hard pressure, every outside defender feels like they're looking inwards (which is possibly forgivable given the number of tackles missed by our inside defence) and we're just missing simple, basic one-on-one tackles where nothing magical is being done. Even when we're completing a tackle, it's rarely dominant and there were so many where a little half-break was made and the tackle was only finished as a last-ditch scrag. Did Australia have to do anything particularly special to score their tries, or did they just either pass it around us or run at us until a basic mistake was made.

I'm not turning down a series victory away in Australia and there were some notable positives, but let's be real - if that was against Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, or probably even Wales, they'd have murdered us with that porous a defence.

Puja

Well the defensive structure seemed to be the centres shooting out and cutting off the wide ball in the second test, sort of worked with the Aussies playing narrow but more missed tackles than we'd like.

From what's been said on radio and from the highlights I've seen it seems like we went for same again, Australia we waiting for it and so picked off Porter knowing that the wings don't follow the 13 up and that Farrell doesn't have the pace to cover across. Porter didn't have the experience to adjust on the fly and got exposed. He works hard and is aggressive but that was used against him. A tough lesson to learn.

I'm not sure how our defence coach didn't see the Aussie analysts picking out what we were doing though. Pretty uninspired thinking so far from our new defence coach. Him and Gleeson could well be under the microscope sooner rather than later.

The system was poor in both tests- sort of worked in the second test is overstating it, and it was simply dire this test, compounded by bad tackling where Porter was exposed. As you say its a sort of narrow blitz, but not done consistently well- several times yesterday Smith and Porter flew out (but even then, not quite at the same time) with Faz not in a line and sort of drifting behind Porter. As you said, the analysts had spotted it and exposed it , both the dog legs and the narrowness. Asking Smith to do this - if that is what is happening (he may just have been a bit panicked because he was targeted, so tried to be more aggressive) is nuts- if anything, hide him.
The system was poor, and compunded by poor tackling, esp from Porter and to some extent Smith; Faz put in a big tackle count, but a lot was scrambling behind the primary line as Aus got repeatedly outside and inside. It was also predictable- same thing every time; even when I played at a lower level, we'd mix it up- slow drift, fast drift, one out, Queensland defence, blitz, man for man etc depending on where on the park and the sort of team we were playing against. Distinct lack of imagination, and the midfield just looked all over the shop to me.

[Banquo]

Everyone seems to have written off Slade and Daly. I doubt Jones will dump Slade but he might have given up on Daly. I still think that is bizarre, given what a class international winger he was. Maybe he still would be had Jones not messed his mind with FB duties.

I wonder where Marchant figures now. Winning the two matches without him in the 23, and thus the series, could well have finished his international career. If so, I think that is horrendous use of best resources on a par with spoiling Daly, the winger.

Our 10,12 & 13 spots look as unsettled as Depp and Heard. Just go with the form 10 and then hope Kelly and Dingwall get game time to join Marchant, Manu, Slade, Freeman, Daly and Lozowski for the 12 and 13 shirts

nice Freeman insert . Though Daly should never be allowed near the 13 shirt again.

[p/d]

Everyone seems to have written off Slade and Daly. I doubt Jones will dump Slade but he might have given up on Daly. I still think that is bizarre, given what a class international winger he was. Maybe he still would be had Jones not messed his mind with FB duties.

I wonder where Marchant figures now. Winning the two matches without him in the 23, and thus the series, could well have finished his international career. If so, I think that is horrendous use of best resources on a par with spoiling Daly, the winger.

Our 10,12 & 13 spots look as unsettled as Depp and Heard. Just go with the form 10 and then hope Kelly and Dingwall get game time to join Marchant, Manu, Slade, Freeman, Daly and Lozowski for the 12 and 13 shirts

nice Freeman insert . Though Daly should never be allowed near the 13 shirt again.

Agree Daly (needed padding out a bit). Then there is always Joseph to add to the mix.
Freeman looks a cracker from the few bits I have seen of him

[Mikey Brown]

Maybe not the sort of thing to be focused on, but as someone who criticised Eddie a lot I’m 100% on his side here. What a dickhead.

[Banquo]

Our 10,12 & 13 spots look as unsettled as Depp and Heard. Just go with the form 10 and then hope Kelly and Dingwall get game time to join Marchant, Manu, Slade, Freeman, Daly and Lozowski for the 12 and 13 shirts

nice Freeman insert . Though Daly should never be allowed near the 13 shirt again.

Agree Daly (needed padding out a bit). Then there is always Joseph to add to the mix.
Freeman looks a cracker from the few bits I have seen of him

Freeman's great, but not sure how much he has played in midfield. Cracking 15 and wing tho