World Cup Squad

[Scrumhead]

Following the tour, I think we’re getting pretty close to the World Cup squad.

The tour answered a few important questions:

Stuart had a good run of games and has shown that he’s a viable second choice/potential starter.

JvP showed the quality and cojones to suggest he’s a very serious contender at 9.

Chessum built upon his cameos and looked very much at home as a starter.

Hill (silly bollocks aside) had a very decent tour and looks like first choice to partner Itoje.

Freeman looks like a very handy addition to the back three options.

If I were picking it today, I’d go with:

1. Genge / Marler / M. Vunipola
2. George / Cowan-Dickie / Walker
3. Sinckler / Stuart / Heyes
4. Itoje / Chessum
5. Hill / Isiekwe
6. Lawes / Willis
7. Curry / Underhill
8. B. Vunipola / Dombrandt
9. Youngs / Quirke / van Poortvliet
10. Smith / Ford
11. May / Freeman
12. Farrell / Slade
13. Tuilagi / Marchant
14. Watson / Nowell
15. Steward / Arundell

Unlucky to miss out: Rodd, Earl, Simmonds

IMO biggest areas of potential flux are third choice hooker, number 8, centre and the back three.

I’ve gone with Walker for now. I’d prefer McGuigan, but that looks unlikely. Blamire has talent but unless he’s starting more games, I think it’s Walker’s spot to lose, but I think Langdon’s move to Worcester could put him in a good position to challenge. Singleton might also benefit if Gloucester have another good season.

8 is a funny one … now Billy is back, he’s going to be very hard to dislodge. There’s no news on Dombrandt’s knee injury, but as long as it’s not too serious, he’s probably next cab off the rank. The dark horse IMO is Mercer. If he has another good season in France signs a contract with a Premiership club, I can definitely see him leapfrogging Dombrandt.

Centre has been done to death. I just hope Marchant being dropped is temporary. Tuilagi and Slade are the obvious two to return fitness permitting. Will Joseph has obviously impressed in training, but he needs the chance with Irish to really challenge. I said before the tour that Porter was lucky to be included and he showed nothing in the past couple of weeks to suggest that was an unfair assessment. Back up at best IMO.

Back three is completely open. In theory, May and Watson are in provided that they are fit and their injuries haven’t taken too much of a toll. Nowell is an Eddie favourite and aside from one poor decision which saw him bundled in to touch, I thought he had a good tour. Sure he’s not the most deadly wing in test rugby, but he brings a lot of good qualities that shouldn’t be overlooked. Freeman has played his way in to contention with two very good showings. He’s stolen a march on Cokanasiga, Radwan, Hassell-Collins and Lynagh who have limited opportunities now to make a case. If Arundell can continue to kick on this season, I’d say he’s taken the maverick spot Radwan would have been chasing and could cement the role of impact sub in the 23 shirt.

Come at me …

[fivepointer]

I'd say thats going to be there or thereabouts. Obviously it will depend on fitness but i dont see many others pushing their way in.

Wouldnt surprise me if Launchbury is included and i wonder if Furbank's versatility might earn him a spot. Maybe a bolter at centre. Dingwall, Ojomoh, Lawrence, Joseph or Kelly?

[Banquo]

Following the tour, I think we’re getting pretty close to the World Cup squad.

The tour answered a few important questions:

Stuart had a good run of games and has shown that he’s a viable second choice/potential starter.

JvP showed the quality and cojones to suggest he’s a very serious contender at 9.

Chessum built upon his cameos and looked very much at home as a starter.

Hill (silly bollocks aside) had a very decent tour and looks like first choice to partner Itoje.

Freeman looks like a very handy addition to the back three options.

If I were picking it today, I’d go with:

1. Genge / Marler / M. Vunipola
2. George / Cowan-Dickie / Walker
3. Sinckler / Stuart / Heyes
4. Itoje / Chessum
5. Hill / Isiekwe
6. Lawes / Willis
7. Curry / Underhill
8. B. Vunipola / Dombrandt
9. Youngs / Quirke / van Poortvliet
10. Smith / Ford
11. May / Freeman
12. Farrell / Slade
13. Tuilagi / Marchant
14. Watson / Nowell
15. Steward / Arundell

Unlucky to miss out: Rodd, Earl, Simmonds

IMO biggest areas of potential flux are third choice hooker, number 8, centre and the back three.

I’ve gone with Walker for now. I’d prefer McGuigan, but that looks unlikely. Blamire has talent but unless he’s starting more games, I think it’s Walker’s spot to lose, but I think Langdon’s move to Worcester could put him in a good position to challenge. Singleton might also benefit if Gloucester have another good season.

8 is a funny one … now Billy is back, he’s going to be very hard to dislodge. There’s no news on Dombrandt’s knee injury, but as long as it’s not too serious, he’s probably next cab off the rank. The dark horse IMO is Mercer. If he has another good season in France signs a contract with a Premiership club, I can definitely see him leapfrogging Dombrandt.

Centre has been done to death. I just hope Marchant being dropped is temporary. Tuilagi and Slade are the obvious two to return fitness permitting. Will Joseph has obviously impressed in training, but he needs the chance with Irish to really challenge. I said before the tour that Porter was lucky to be included and he showed nothing in the past couple of weeks to suggest that was an unfair assessment. Back up at best IMO.

Back three is completely open. In theory, May and Watson are in provided that they are fit and their injuries haven’t taken too much of a toll. Nowell is an Eddie favourite and aside from one poor decision which saw him bundled in to touch, I thought he had a good tour. Sure he’s not the most deadly wing in test rugby, but he brings a lot of good qualities that shouldn’t be overlooked. Freeman has played his way in to contention with two very good showings. He’s stolen a march on Cokanasiga, Radwan, Hassell-Collins and Lynagh who have limited opportunities now to make a case. If Arundell can continue to kick on this season, I’d say he’s taken the maverick spot Radwan would have been chasing and could cement the role of impact sub in the 23 shirt.

Come at me …

Yeah, said in the thread that our starting pack and subs are near sorted. The rest remains up for grabs imo, bar prob Steward at 15 and Faz in there come what may in some position. I reckon Stuart and Billy were the big winners, with Freeman and JVP close.

[SDHoneymonster]

Genuinely reckon that, compared to this point four years ago, England are in a better position. Then, they'd just lost on tour to a poor (at that time) South African side with a team still built around the likes of Hartley, Robshaw, Brown et al. This team has already had an infusion of new blood that will only get better with more experience and they've just managed to win in Australia despite a hefty injury toll (I know Aus had a massive injury list of their own). I know some people will probably think I'm being overly generous and there's no guarantee that it will come together again in the same way, but I feel like flying under the radar as everyone swoons over Ireland and France will suit this lot well.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Following the tour, I think we’re getting pretty close to the World Cup squad.

The tour answered a few important questions:

Stuart had a good run of games and has shown that he’s a viable second choice/potential starter.

JvP showed the quality and cojones to suggest he’s a very serious contender at 9.

Chessum built upon his cameos and looked very much at home as a starter.

Hill (silly bollocks aside) had a very decent tour and looks like first choice to partner Itoje.

Freeman looks like a very handy addition to the back three options.

If I were picking it today, I’d go with:

1. Genge / Marler / M. Vunipola
2. George / Cowan-Dickie / Walker
3. Sinckler / Stuart / Heyes
4. Itoje / Chessum
5. Hill / Isiekwe
6. Lawes / Willis
7. Curry / Underhill
8. B. Vunipola / Dombrandt
9. Youngs / Quirke / van Poortvliet
10. Smith / Ford
11. May / Freeman
12. Farrell / Slade
13. Tuilagi / Marchant
14. Watson / Nowell
15. Steward / Arundell

Unlucky to miss out: Rodd, Earl, Simmonds

IMO biggest areas of potential flux are third choice hooker, number 8, centre and the back three.

I’ve gone with Walker for now. I’d prefer McGuigan, but that looks unlikely. Blamire has talent but unless he’s starting more games, I think it’s Walker’s spot to lose, but I think Langdon’s move to Worcester could put him in a good position to challenge. Singleton might also benefit if Gloucester have another good season.

8 is a funny one … now Billy is back, he’s going to be very hard to dislodge. There’s no news on Dombrandt’s knee injury, but as long as it’s not too serious, he’s probably next cab off the rank. The dark horse IMO is Mercer. If he has another good season in France signs a contract with a Premiership club, I can definitely see him leapfrogging Dombrandt.

Centre has been done to death. I just hope Marchant being dropped is temporary. Tuilagi and Slade are the obvious two to return fitness permitting. Will Joseph has obviously impressed in training, but he needs the chance with Irish to really challenge. I said before the tour that Porter was lucky to be included and he showed nothing in the past couple of weeks to suggest that was an unfair assessment. Back up at best IMO.

Back three is completely open. In theory, May and Watson are in provided that they are fit and their injuries haven’t taken too much of a toll. Nowell is an Eddie favourite and aside from one poor decision which saw him bundled in to touch, I thought he had a good tour. Sure he’s not the most deadly wing in test rugby, but he brings a lot of good qualities that shouldn’t be overlooked. Freeman has played his way in to contention with two very good showings. He’s stolen a march on Cokanasiga, Radwan, Hassell-Collins and Lynagh who have limited opportunities now to make a case. If Arundell can continue to kick on this season, I’d say he’s taken the maverick spot Radwan would have been chasing and could cement the role of impact sub in the 23 shirt.

Come at me …

Yeah, said in the thread that our starting pack and subs are near sorted. The rest remains up for grabs imo, bar prob Steward at 15 and Faz in there come what may in some position. I reckon Stuart and Billy were the big winners, with Freeman and JVP close.

Agree on the pack being mostly sorted. Still opportunity to break in from the likes of Earl, Hill, Martin, Simmonds, or Willis (T), Barbeary if they have big seasons, but mostly I think it's pretty much done. Launchbury of course if he can stay fit.

Lots to work through in the backs. Having a fit Tuilagi is always going to take a spot and Slade will be in there. Wouldn't discount either Malins or Daly coming back. Watson obviously has to return, and judging by his recent speedwork posts he looks just as fast. We need proper pace in there, which Watson, May, Daly and Arundell (and Radwan) all have. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lawrence have a big year. Kelly will be back amongst it and Joseph has done bloody well to get in and impress enough to get a cap. Another year of Prem will do him the world of good.

Quirke, Mitchell, Randall, JVP will all be fighting for spots, and Youngs is probably nailed on the squad for experience. Probably. I think 10 is still up for grabs, and depends on who is available outside.

There's a big season ahead.

[Scrumhead]

Genuinely reckon that, compared to this point four years ago, England are in a better position. Then, they'd just lost on tour to a poor (at that time) South African side with a team still built around the likes of Hartley, Robshaw, Brown et al. This team has already had an infusion of new blood that will only get better with more experience and they've just managed to win in Australia despite a hefty injury toll (I know Aus had a massive injury list of their own). I know some people will probably think I'm being overly generous and there's no guarantee that it will come together again in the same way, but I feel like flying under the radar as everyone swoons over Ireland and France will suit this lot well.

I kind of agree. I think this tour was really important in building some positivity again after a pretty dismal 12mths.

The performances obviously weren’t stellar, but there were some decent moments and positives to take away. If we can build upon those in the AIs, we’ll be setting ourselves up nicely.

I think your last sentence is interesting. I don’t know if I’d go as far as saying we’re ‘flying under the radar’, but not being one of the hot favourites could be a good thing.

@EP - totally forgot about Malins! I wonder whether Freeman has stolen his spot given they cover the same positions?

[Banquo]

Following the tour, I think we’re getting pretty close to the World Cup squad.

The tour answered a few important questions:

Stuart had a good run of games and has shown that he’s a viable second choice/potential starter.

JvP showed the quality and cojones to suggest he’s a very serious contender at 9.

Chessum built upon his cameos and looked very much at home as a starter.

Hill (silly bollocks aside) had a very decent tour and looks like first choice to partner Itoje.

Freeman looks like a very handy addition to the back three options.

If I were picking it today, I’d go with:

1. Genge / Marler / M. Vunipola
2. George / Cowan-Dickie / Walker
3. Sinckler / Stuart / Heyes
4. Itoje / Chessum
5. Hill / Isiekwe
6. Lawes / Willis
7. Curry / Underhill
8. B. Vunipola / Dombrandt
9. Youngs / Quirke / van Poortvliet
10. Smith / Ford
11. May / Freeman
12. Farrell / Slade
13. Tuilagi / Marchant
14. Watson / Nowell
15. Steward / Arundell

Unlucky to miss out: Rodd, Earl, Simmonds

IMO biggest areas of potential flux are third choice hooker, number 8, centre and the back three.

I’ve gone with Walker for now. I’d prefer McGuigan, but that looks unlikely. Blamire has talent but unless he’s starting more games, I think it’s Walker’s spot to lose, but I think Langdon’s move to Worcester could put him in a good position to challenge. Singleton might also benefit if Gloucester have another good season.

8 is a funny one … now Billy is back, he’s going to be very hard to dislodge. There’s no news on Dombrandt’s knee injury, but as long as it’s not too serious, he’s probably next cab off the rank. The dark horse IMO is Mercer. If he has another good season in France signs a contract with a Premiership club, I can definitely see him leapfrogging Dombrandt.

Centre has been done to death. I just hope Marchant being dropped is temporary. Tuilagi and Slade are the obvious two to return fitness permitting. Will Joseph has obviously impressed in training, but he needs the chance with Irish to really challenge. I said before the tour that Porter was lucky to be included and he showed nothing in the past couple of weeks to suggest that was an unfair assessment. Back up at best IMO.

Back three is completely open. In theory, May and Watson are in provided that they are fit and their injuries haven’t taken too much of a toll. Nowell is an Eddie favourite and aside from one poor decision which saw him bundled in to touch, I thought he had a good tour. Sure he’s not the most deadly wing in test rugby, but he brings a lot of good qualities that shouldn’t be overlooked. Freeman has played his way in to contention with two very good showings. He’s stolen a march on Cokanasiga, Radwan, Hassell-Collins and Lynagh who have limited opportunities now to make a case. If Arundell can continue to kick on this season, I’d say he’s taken the maverick spot Radwan would have been chasing and could cement the role of impact sub in the 23 shirt.

Come at me …

Yeah, said in the thread that our starting pack and subs are near sorted. The rest remains up for grabs imo, bar prob Steward at 15 and Faz in there come what may in some position. I reckon Stuart and Billy were the big winners, with Freeman and JVP close.

Agree on the pack being mostly sorted. Still opportunity to break in from the likes of Earl, Hill, Martin, Simmonds, or Willis (T), Barbeary if they have big seasons, but mostly I think it's pretty much done. Launchbury of course if he can stay fit.

Lots to work through in the backs. Having a fit Tuilagi is always going to take a spot and Slade will be in there. Wouldn't discount either Malins or Daly coming back. Watson obviously has to return, and judging by his recent speedwork posts he looks just as fast. We need proper pace in there, which Watson, May, Daly and Arundell (and Radwan) all have. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lawrence have a big year. Kelly will be back amongst it and Joseph has done bloody well to get in and impress enough to get a cap. Another year of Prem will do him the world of good.

Quirke, Mitchell, Randall, JVP will all be fighting for spots, and Youngs is probably nailed on the squad for experience. Probably. I think 10 is still up for grabs, and depends on who is available outside.

There's a big season ahead.

I'd like Barbeary to have a proper go at hooker.

Freeman is pretty quick I'd say too. Relying on Manu being fit is clearly no sort of strategy, but unfortunately in terms of intl level centres he's the only one who defences would worry about. Frankly, I thought Malins looked out of his depth intly both at 15 and especially on the wing; Daly is a great bench option for me, but should never start at 13. Watson for me needs to deliver tries and stay fit. May is possibly approaching sell by date.....as you say, big seasons for these guys. How we solve 12 is a challenge still.
I'd like to think EJ will have noted how good JVP was - tempo, kicking and decision making all of a ridiculously good standard given his experience.

[Banquo]

Genuinely reckon that, compared to this point four years ago, England are in a better position. Then, they'd just lost on tour to a poor (at that time) South African side with a team still built around the likes of Hartley, Robshaw, Brown et al. This team has already had an infusion of new blood that will only get better with more experience and they've just managed to win in Australia despite a hefty injury toll (I know Aus had a massive injury list of their own). I know some people will probably think I'm being overly generous and there's no guarantee that it will come together again in the same way, but I feel like flying under the radar as everyone swoons over Ireland and France will suit this lot well.

I kind of agree. I think this tour was really important in building some positivity again after a pretty dismal 12mths.

The performances obviously weren’t stellar, but there were some decent moments and positives to take away. If we can build upon those in the AIs, we’ll be setting ourselves up nicely.

I think your last sentence is interesting. I don’t know if I’d go as far as saying we’re ‘flying under the radar’, but not being one of the hot favourites could be a good thing.

@EP - totally forgot about Malins! I wonder whether Freeman has stolen his spot given they cover the same positions?

Freeman has earned the spot by dint of actually looking test class

On a general note- Stuart, Hill (bar stupidity), Billy, JVP, Freeman all (re) established themselves as quality players. So a huge plus from that POV.

[Mellsblue]

It’s been a long time since a player as made his debut and pretty much ticked every box almost instantly but JVP and Freeman did just that. Cue injuries and/or severe loss of form for both.

[Scrumhead]

To be fair, Quirke did too. In a way, his injury might have worked out well for England. Ideally, he’d have toured and built experience, but we’d have been unlikely to have seen JvP if that had happened. Now there’s a good opportunity for both Quirke and JvP to start what could be a long term duel for the 9 shirt.

[Mellsblue]

To be fair, Quirke did too.

Fair. We know he’s the messiah because he then injured himself.

[Banquo]

To be fair, Quirke did too. In a way, his injury might have worked out well for England. Ideally, he’d have toured and built experience, but we’d have been unlikely to have seen JvP if that had happened. Now there’s a good opportunity for both Quirke and JvP to start what could be a long term duel for the 9 shirt.

was he as all round competent? scored a great try tho he hasnt started a game yet.

[Scrumhead]

OK. I didn’t realise there was a strict qualifying criteria.

While Quirke hasn’t started a game yet, I think it’s fair to say he looked competent and composed. Making your debut against the world champions must be pretty daunting prospect (particularly in a decision-making role) so Quirke deserves credit for not being overawed. He and Arundell are probably in a more similar category of ‘kid takes his chance’.

JvP’s performances were excellent given his overall lack of experience. Same goes for Chessum who just seems to get better and better. Deputising for Itoje is no mean feat and I don’t know if he’s had enough plaudits for doing so pretty seamlessly.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Agreed re:Chessum. I think he's got a high bar potentially and his experience to date will stand him in good stead. Got a real opportunity to grow further this year with Tigers.

[Mellsblue]

Marchant described as dropped in today’s Times….

[Epaminondas Pules]

Yeah, said in the thread that our starting pack and subs are near sorted. The rest remains up for grabs imo, bar prob Steward at 15 and Faz in there come what may in some position. I reckon Stuart and Billy were the big winners, with Freeman and JVP close.

Agree on the pack being mostly sorted. Still opportunity to break in from the likes of Earl, Hill, Martin, Simmonds, or Willis (T), Barbeary if they have big seasons, but mostly I think it's pretty much done. Launchbury of course if he can stay fit.

Lots to work through in the backs. Having a fit Tuilagi is always going to take a spot and Slade will be in there. Wouldn't discount either Malins or Daly coming back. Watson obviously has to return, and judging by his recent speedwork posts he looks just as fast. We need proper pace in there, which Watson, May, Daly and Arundell (and Radwan) all have. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lawrence have a big year. Kelly will be back amongst it and Joseph has done bloody well to get in and impress enough to get a cap. Another year of Prem will do him the world of good.

Quirke, Mitchell, Randall, JVP will all be fighting for spots, and Youngs is probably nailed on the squad for experience. Probably. I think 10 is still up for grabs, and depends on who is available outside.

There's a big season ahead.

I'd like Barbeary to have a proper go at hooker.

Freeman is pretty quick I'd say too. Relying on Manu being fit is clearly no sort of strategy, but unfortunately in terms of intl level centres he's the only one who defences would worry about. Frankly, I thought Malins looked out of his depth intly both at 15 and especially on the wing; Daly is a great bench option for me, but should never start at 13. Watson for me needs to deliver tries and stay fit. May is possibly approaching sell by date.....as you say, big seasons for these guys. How we solve 12 is a challenge still.
I'd like to think EJ will have noted how good JVP was - tempo, kicking and decision making all of a ridiculously good standard given his experience.

I doubt very much Barbeary will move back now. Seems set on No8, with probable stints at 6 too.

And definitely a big year for those who missed the Aus tour (or games on tour) to force their ways back in through form.

[Banquo]

Agree on the pack being mostly sorted. Still opportunity to break in from the likes of Earl, Hill, Martin, Simmonds, or Willis (T), Barbeary if they have big seasons, but mostly I think it's pretty much done. Launchbury of course if he can stay fit.

Lots to work through in the backs. Having a fit Tuilagi is always going to take a spot and Slade will be in there. Wouldn't discount either Malins or Daly coming back. Watson obviously has to return, and judging by his recent speedwork posts he looks just as fast. We need proper pace in there, which Watson, May, Daly and Arundell (and Radwan) all have. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lawrence have a big year. Kelly will be back amongst it and Joseph has done bloody well to get in and impress enough to get a cap. Another year of Prem will do him the world of good.

Quirke, Mitchell, Randall, JVP will all be fighting for spots, and Youngs is probably nailed on the squad for experience. Probably. I think 10 is still up for grabs, and depends on who is available outside.

There's a big season ahead.

I'd like Barbeary to have a proper go at hooker.

Freeman is pretty quick I'd say too. Relying on Manu being fit is clearly no sort of strategy, but unfortunately in terms of intl level centres he's the only one who defences would worry about. Frankly, I thought Malins looked out of his depth intly both at 15 and especially on the wing; Daly is a great bench option for me, but should never start at 13. Watson for me needs to deliver tries and stay fit. May is possibly approaching sell by date.....as you say, big seasons for these guys. How we solve 12 is a challenge still.
I'd like to think EJ will have noted how good JVP was - tempo, kicking and decision making all of a ridiculously good standard given his experience.

I doubt very much Barbeary will move back now. Seems set on No8, with probable stints at 6 too.

And definitely a big year for those who missed the Aus tour (or games on tour) to force their ways back in through form.

Yep, but I think if he wants to get into the England team he'll either need to hugely improve his backrow game, or imo have a point of difference as a hooker....but may already have missed too much time not developing his set piece work.

[Banquo]

OK. I didn’t realise there was a strict qualifying criteria.

While Quirke hasn’t started a game yet, I think it’s fair to say he looked competent and composed. Making your debut against the world champions must be pretty daunting prospect (particularly in a decision-making role) so Quirke deserves credit for not being overawed. He and Arundell are probably in a more similar category of ‘kid takes his chance’.

JvP’s performances were excellent given his overall lack of experience. Same goes for Chessum who just seems to get better and better. Deputising for Itoje is no mean feat and I don’t know if he’s had enough plaudits for doing so pretty seamlessly.

Ooh get you- is it a bit warm in the office . I was asking a question, not forcing any criteria, as I don't recall seeing much of his all round game in his two sub appearances, certainly not to the JVP levels.

[Banquo]

Agreed re:Chessum. I think he's got a high bar potentially and his experience to date will stand him in good stead. Got a real opportunity to grow further this year with Tigers.

Like him, and he can still fill out without losing pace I'd think.

[Banquo]

Marchant described as dropped in today’s Times….

very odd, can't be just on first test performance; if he was dropped because they wanted more physicality, it didn't pan out well.

[Spiffy]

As all agree,the bulk of the squad is already selected, even though some of the players are nothing special for international rugby. The real problem is coming up with an effective game plan and tactics that will win games against good teams, and that the players are capable of implementing. At present the team looks disorganized and rudderless especially in the backs. The win against a truly sloppy OZ side, which should have scored several tries, may serve to take the bad look off things, but England were poor.
Jones will probably revert to an unimaginative approach, based around a kicking game and the selection of the dull Youngs at 9.

[Banquo]

As all agree,the bulk of the squad is already selected, even though some of the players are nothing special for international rugby. The real problem is coming up with an effective game plan and tactics that will win games against good teams, and that the players are capable of implementing. At present the team looks disorganized and rudderless especially in the backs. The win against a truly sloppy OZ side, which should have scored several tries, may serve to take the bad look off things, but England were poor.
Jones will probably revert to an unimaginative approach, based around a kicking game and the selection of the dull Youngs at 9.

I don't totally agree, I'm holding out hope that in the backline we can perm a better backline than hitherto; I think the pack fully fit will be pretty good on their day- there aren't any real plodders. The backs are a mess. Farrell A has shown what is possible with a bunch of intl class grafters and a couple of very good players

[Spiffy]

As all agree,the bulk of the squad is already selected, even though some of the players are nothing special for international rugby. The real problem is coming up with an effective game plan and tactics that will win games against good teams, and that the players are capable of implementing. At present the team looks disorganized and rudderless especially in the backs. The win against a truly sloppy OZ side, which should have scored several tries, may serve to take the bad look off things, but England were poor.
Jones will probably revert to an unimaginative approach, based around a kicking game and the selection of the dull Youngs at 9.

I don't totally agree, I'm holding out hope that in the backline we can perm a better backline than hitherto; I think the pack fully fit will be pretty good on their day- there aren't any real plodders. The backs are a mess. Farrell A has shown what is possible with a bunch of intl class grafters and a couple of very good players

The backline could certainly improve, especially since the only way is up. But it's hard to have much optimism about that if the Smith/Faz axis continues, which it probably will. Agree about Ireland - their strength is that they have optimised the input of every player to reach a level of coordinated team play that is greater than the sum of the parts, while leaving room for outstanding individual efforts from players like Sexton, Henshaw, Beirne and VDF.

[SixAndAHalf]

Following the tour, I think we’re getting pretty close to the World Cup squad.

The tour answered a few important questions:

Stuart had a good run of games and has shown that he’s a viable second choice/potential starter.

JvP showed the quality and cojones to suggest he’s a very serious contender at 9.

Chessum built upon his cameos and looked very much at home as a starter.

Hill (silly bollocks aside) had a very decent tour and looks like first choice to partner Itoje.

Freeman looks like a very handy addition to the back three options.

If I were picking it today, I’d go with:

1. Genge / Marler / M. Vunipola
2. George / Cowan-Dickie / Walker
3. Sinckler / Stuart / Heyes
4. Itoje / Chessum
5. Hill / Isiekwe
6. Lawes / Willis
7. Curry / Underhill
8. B. Vunipola / Dombrandt
9. Youngs / Quirke / van Poortvliet
10. Smith / Ford
11. May / Freeman
12. Farrell / Slade
13. Tuilagi / Marchant
14. Watson / Nowell
15. Steward / Arundell

...
Come at me …

Seems pretty spot on. I feel like Eddie will pick Ludlam but hard to see where...

A few names (a number of them mentioned already) who I think have the talent to force their way in with good seasons (would be only a couple, not all who do): Tizard, Mercer, Barbeary, Alex Mitchell, Lawrence and Cokanisiga

Could also see Launch, Daly or Malins re-emerging.

Feel like Ted Hill should be in the conversation as the back up to Lawes but he doesn't seem to be Eddie's cup of tea.

[Banquo]

As all agree,the bulk of the squad is already selected, even though some of the players are nothing special for international rugby. The real problem is coming up with an effective game plan and tactics that will win games against good teams, and that the players are capable of implementing. At present the team looks disorganized and rudderless especially in the backs. The win against a truly sloppy OZ side, which should have scored several tries, may serve to take the bad look off things, but England were poor.
Jones will probably revert to an unimaginative approach, based around a kicking game and the selection of the dull Youngs at 9.

I don't totally agree, I'm holding out hope that in the backline we can perm a better backline than hitherto; I think the pack fully fit will be pretty good on their day- there aren't any real plodders. The backs are a mess. Farrell A has shown what is possible with a bunch of intl class grafters and a couple of very good players

The backline could certainly improve, especially since the only way is up. But it's hard to have much optimism about that if the Smith/Faz axis continues, which it probably will. Agree about Ireland - their strength is that they have optimised the input of every player to reach a level of coordinated team play that is greater than the sum of the parts, while leaving room for outstanding individual efforts from players like Sexton, Henshaw, Beirne and VDF.

Faz and Smith just doesn't look like a good pairing to me. I hope Faz is abandoned as a player, for all his workrate, medium quality goalkicking and aggression- his return as an inside centre over three tests (albeit we kicked quite a lot, and didn't have a ton of possession in the third test) 29 passes, 4 carries for 6 yards , a fair few average kicks, 29 tackles made 6 missed, 3 turnovers and 1 penalty conceded.
Just absorb that yardage alone- 4 carries, 6 yards in three tests as an inside centre. The vast majority of passes (18) were in the first test when he played a lot as first receiver, when we were running those complex planned phases....which we completely abandoned (maybe hiding them for next year ). Kerevi carried 42 times for 145 yards, and kicked a bit too; I know we played in a very different way, but surely we can do a bit better...

Out of JVP, Quirke, Ford, Smith, Slade, Marchant, Dingwall, Tuilagi, May, Watson, Freeman, (Nowell), Joe C, Daly, Arundell, Steward plus some others I have overlooked, you must be able to do something better than we appear to be able to atm. Obviously a big if in there

and yes, adding Ryan to that list, and Furlong at his best, done a great job. And of course POM, who doesn't obviously look world class, but actually is at the jobs he is given. Brilliant team work.