RFU v Jones

[Oakboy]

I've delayed posting on this in the hope that someone else would start a debate. Some will immediately accuse me of being anti-Jones (which I am).

However, I cannot get my head around the apparent glitch in the RFU/Jones love affair. The rebuke from the RFU comes at last, not because of horrendous team displays for three years, but because the Australian has dared to slag off public schools. Other top countries will be somewhat amused, I suspect.

I fear for the future of our game when priorities are so far adrift.

[Puja]

Yeah, felt like something of a non-event to me too. Jones has said many times before that he thinks a lot of our players are coddled through school, academies, and age groups and don't gain resilience from real world setbacks (hence why he's so keen to throw caps at unconventional coming-to-rugby stories like Potter and Dolly). I don't get why this interview required an apology.

Puja

[pandion]

I think some of that is true but the age grade system is also to blame. U20s is very young to be judged on for your future. Most strength/contact sports junior is U23s which would be much better.

[32nd Man]

The whole spat just smacks of bored people, trying to create work to justify their existence.

Improving the Rugby team isn't at the top of the reasons why we should abolish private schools.

[Mr Mwenda]

Yes, I dislike the public school system's position within english rugby but I also dislike public schools. I do find it revealing how clearly these comments touched a nerve compared to some of his other pontifications.

[Banquo]

people jumped on the private schools bit (born of eddie's general chippiness about the English and 'privilege' imo), but I think his core and key point was that the pathways coddle players and don't (start to) prepare them well for the harshness of international level sport either in skills terms or mental toughness or both. He's right, and that's compounded by the relative softness of the Prem imo, where you can get away with relatively poor skills especially.

[pandion]

It's only the Private and Grammar schools that play rugby where I live. Without it the clubs would probably lose 70%+ of their players and therefore there would be no clubs.

[Mellsblue]

Don’t bite than hand that feeds you.

[Banquo]

It's only the Private and Grammar schools that play rugby where I live. Without it the clubs would probably lose 70%+ of their players and therefore there would be no clubs.

I presume there are local clubs doing mini and youth etc. But yes, it does depend on where you live and even whether the local schools are doing any form of team/organised sports. To that extent the private/grammar schools are a valuable input to the system- and in fact crucial at 6th form level I'd say, though places like Ivybridge are fantastic.

Lots of schools do rugby round me, and where I grew up, but even if the schools aren't doing it, there are two big mini and youth sections nearby who have evening midweek sessions as well as Sundays.

[fivepointer]

Jones hit upon an issue but i dont think its the fact that privately educated kids might lack a bit of resilience.

The real issue is that not enough kids from the state school/local club environment are represented at age group level, or through to the senior England side. There's no doubt that going to a certain school will open doors for you that will remain closed for kids who are educated in the state sector.

We simply arent doing enough to develop and tap into the talent that exists throughout the country.

[Oakboy]

I often wonder about the general perception of private schools. The only kids with that background that I know closely turned out to be achievers in life and sport (in one case). Yes, money paid for the privilege of being there but the environment encouraged work and application. Certainly, they came closer to full potential than I ever did at grammar school. I just don't understand the lack of leadership accusation.

That aside, what bothers me most is that Jones's prejudices are only now being discovered. I dislike the man and don't rate him as a head coach but this outburst that finally brought a rebuke is not inconsistent with his character - that same character that got him appointed in the first place. For the RFU to object is tantamount to admitting that they did not investigate their employee properly in the first place.

Problems in English rugby go much deeper then private/public schools and Jones, come to that.

[Mellsblue]

The irony being it’s the most diverse squad ever and even a number of those who count as private school will have only gone there because of rugby scholarship.
Would’ve been interesting to see the fallout if someone had suggested the players from non-selective schools were guilty of the most stupid brain farts, I’m looking at you LCD, Genge and Hill, because they had a crap education.

[pandion]

Some of what Jones says is also a societal problem that's just how life is now. Many younger adults come across as immature for their age in comparison to the past. It's much less likely now to be out of education and self sufficient at 21 than it was before. Lots of reasons why it just is

[Banquo]

Jones hit upon an issue but i dont think its the fact that privately educated kids might lack a bit of resilience.

The real issue is that not enough kids from the state school/local club environment are represented at age group level, or through to the senior England side. There's no doubt that going to a certain school will open doors for you that will remain closed for kids who are educated in the state sector.

We simply arent doing enough to develop and tap into the talent that exists throughout the country.

I don't think talent availability is the issue though- and we will always struggle to attract huge numbers at a young age, because its a complex and difficult sport to both 'learn' and lay on. I think we still have a lot of talent starting the game, notwithstanding all that. I think the system is a lot more meritocratic than it was, BUT if you go to a rugby playing school you will inevitably get more training etc.
I think a hell of a lot of work goes on to tap into the talent- I do agree we don't do the right things often enough thereafter to develop players into rounded top class efforts.

[Banquo]

The irony being it’s the most diverse squad ever and even a number of those who count as private school will have only gone there because of rugby scholarship.
Would’ve been interesting to see the fallout if someone had suggested the players from non-selective schools were guilty of the most stupid brain farts, I’m looking at you LCD, Genge and Hill, because they had a crap education.

Hill went to Hartpury at 17. Not sure if that's good or bad

[p/d]

Jones is a class A **^*

Another pointless comment made by a pointless individual. Don’t select them if you don’t think they have the resilience. But if you do don’t then use it as a tenuous excuse for your own chip on the shoulder shortcomings

[Mellsblue]

The irony being it’s the most diverse squad ever and even a number of those who count as private school will have only gone there because of rugby scholarship.
Would’ve been interesting to see the fallout if someone had suggested the players from non-selective schools were guilty of the most stupid brain farts, I’m looking at you LCD, Genge and Hill, because they had a crap education.

Hill went to Hartpury at 17. Not sure if that's good or bad

Nobody has come out of that part of the country with anything other than a prevalence for inbreeding, the long suffering Mrs Mellsblue excepted, obvs.

[Banquo]

The irony being it’s the most diverse squad ever and even a number of those who count as private school will have only gone there because of rugby scholarship.
Would’ve been interesting to see the fallout if someone had suggested the players from non-selective schools were guilty of the most stupid brain farts, I’m looking at you LCD, Genge and Hill, because they had a crap education.

Hill went to Hartpury at 17. Not sure if that's good or bad

Nobody has come out of that part of the country with anything other than a prevalence for inbreeding, the long suffering Mrs Mellsblue excepted, obvs.

That's where I'm from....ah, I see...

[Spiffy]

Hill went to Hartpury at 17. Not sure if that's good or bad

Nobody has come out of that part of the country with anything other than a prevalence for inbreeding, the long suffering Mrs Mellsblue excepted, obvs.

That's where I'm from....ah, I see...

A six-fingered banjo payer ?

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Nobody has come out of that part of the country with anything other than a prevalence for inbreeding, the long suffering Mrs Mellsblue excepted, obvs.

That's where I'm from....ah, I see...

A six-fingered banjo payer ?

Once upon a time yes, he was but after the incident with the threshing machine he became a 3 1/2 finger banjo player.

[Mellsblue]

That's where I'm from....ah, I see...

A six-fingered banjo payer ?

Once upon a time yes, he was but after the incident with the threshing machine he became a 3 1/2 finger banjo player.

[SDHoneymonster]

That's where I'm from....ah, I see...

A six-fingered banjo payer ?

Once upon a time yes, he was but after the incident with the threshing machine he became a 3 1/2 finger banjo player.

In his defence, I'm sure it was a very sexy threshing machine.

[Banquo]

Nobody has come out of that part of the country with anything other than a prevalence for inbreeding, the long suffering Mrs Mellsblue excepted, obvs.

That's where I'm from....ah, I see...

A six-fingered banjo payer ?

I've never paid for a banjo

This is all a bit forest of deanist

[Puja]

A six-fingered banjo payer ?

Once upon a time yes, he was but after the incident with the threshing machine he became a 3 1/2 finger banjo player.

In his defence, I'm sure it was a very sexy threshing machine.

This sounds like it's going into politics discussion...

Puja