Premiership financial issues

[Puja]

Late stage capitalism operating in the daylight created by people's interest in their sports teams generally tends to be an eye opener for a lot of people who don't see this kind of thing happening in their normal lives.

A lot of "this can't possibly be legal?!" going round on social media when, not only is it perfectly legal, Liz Truss is planning on [joke redacted cause this isn't the Politics board].

Puja

[FKAS]

Late stage capitalism operating in the daylight created by people's interest in their sports teams generally tends to be an eye opener for a lot of people who don't see this kind of thing happening in their normal lives.

A lot of "this can't possibly be legal?!" going round on social media when, not only is it perfectly legal, Liz Truss is planning on [joke redacted cause this isn't the Politics board].

Puja

It might be perfectly legal but it might not be particularly ethical. There may be lawsuits if they believe the assets have been sold below market value to connected companies depending on the various loan covenants etc. The 'lawyer' chappy who part owns the club doesn't have the best previous for trying to be cleverer than he is.

[Danno]

Yeah any recent (last 2 years) transactions will be reviewed by the Administrators. The stuff that's gone on in the last 6-12 months will be under extreme scrutiny

[Puja]

Have learned from a source that the house where a bunch of the academy lads live has just been repossessed by the bank for non-payment of mortgage and they've been given a date that they have to be out.

As someone who works in financial services, I should note that banks don't much like repossessing houses and delivering evictions notices, as it's a pain in the arse and very bad publicity. Bills have to have not been paid for a long time and a lot of attempts at accomodation ignored before it's gone that far.

To be clear, the owners are directly responsible for making teenagers homeless and *did not inform them or give them any notice that their home was under threat*. Fuckers.

Puja

[pandion]

Bunch of del boy cunts,

[FKAS]

Have learned from a source that the house where a bunch of the academy lads live has just been repossessed by the bank for non-payment of mortgage and they've been given a date that they have to be out.

As someone who works in financial services, I should note that banks don't much like repossessing houses and delivering evictions notices, as it's a pain in the arse and very bad publicity. Bills have to have not been paid for a long time and a lot of attempts at accomodation ignored before it's gone that far.

To be clear, the owners are directly responsible for making teenagers homeless and *did not inform them or give them any notice that their home was under threat*. Fuckers.

Puja

Hopefully doesn't apply to any of the under 18 lads playing over in SA. Must be bad enough hearing the rumours everyday that your club is going under whilst you're away in another country, doubly so if you're housemates are calling you saying you need to arrange for somewhere else to live and to get your stuff out.

Seems like rampant mismanagement from the owners but this story seems likely to run and run for months yet. I can't see the stories getting any better.

[32nd Man]

Seems like rampant mismanagement from the owners but this story seems likely to run and run for months yet. I can't see the stories getting any better.

I'm as much of a fan of Hanlon's razor as the next man, but I think it's fait to say asset stripping rather than mismanagement here.

[FKAS]

Seems like rampant mismanagement from the owners but this story seems likely to run and run for months yet. I can't see the stories getting any better.

I'm as much of a fan of Hanlon's razor as the next man, but I think it's fait to say asset stripping rather than mismanagement here.

More greed than stupidity. Depends if you're looking at it commercially or not I suppose. Personally I'm of the opinion that if you own or run a sports club you are a custodian and your job is to keep that club operating and pass it on to the next generation in a better state than you got it. If you can make money along the way then that's great but running it into the floor and asset stripping it on the way out is failing the club miserably.

Duckworth will be turning in his grave.

[pandion]

It's gone a bit quiet with Wasps, is that Worcester taking the heat or are things improving?

[FKAS]

It's gone a bit quiet with Wasps, is that Worcester taking the heat or are things improving?

I'd imagine lots of negotiations taking place behind the scenes. They have good assets in place they just need to refinance to cover the bonds that are due for payment.

[Puja]

It's gone a bit quiet with Wasps, is that Worcester taking the heat or are things improving?

I'd imagine lots of negotiations taking place behind the scenes. They have good assets in place they just need to refinance to cover the bonds that are due for payment.

The difference fron Worcester being that they have assets, a clear plan for future income, and owners who aren't moustache-twirlingly evil. I'd imagine HMRC have a lot more patience with them.

Puja

[pandion]

It's gone a bit quiet with Wasps, is that Worcester taking the heat or are things improving?

I'd imagine lots of negotiations taking place behind the scenes. They have good assets in place they just need to refinance to cover the bonds that are due for payment.

The difference fron Worcester being that they have assets, a clear plan for future income, and owners who aren't moustache-twirlingly evil. I'd imagine HMRC have a lot more patience with them.

Puja

But what is the plan? Everything I've read points to failure both on the field and local buy in. It could be exaggerated I know but Coventry doesn't seem to have taken them to heart.

[Puja]

I'd imagine lots of negotiations taking place behind the scenes. They have good assets in place they just need to refinance to cover the bonds that are due for payment.

The difference fron Worcester being that they have assets, a clear plan for future income, and owners who aren't moustache-twirlingly evil. I'd imagine HMRC have a lot more patience with them.

Puja

But what is the plan? Everything I've read points to failure both on the field and local buy in. It could be exaggerated I know but Coventry doesn't seem to have taken them to heart.

Aren't they averaging 15k? That's an improvement on where they were.

Puja

[pandion]

The difference fron Worcester being that they have assets, a clear plan for future income, and owners who aren't moustache-twirlingly evil. I'd imagine HMRC have a lot more patience with them.

Puja

But what is the plan? Everything I've read points to failure both on the field and local buy in. It could be exaggerated I know but Coventry doesn't seem to have taken them to heart.

Aren't they averaging 15k? That's an improvement on where they were.

Puja

I don't know, only that it seems a big soul less stadium when I've watched. It's more some of the articles I've read regarding money spent to build a fan base that hasn't worked. I believe they give a large number of tickets away? They went big on stars but it didn't work out. It reads like a total failure and now back to financial issues.

Any Wasps fans want to set the record straight? Not a diss but a genuine question.

[pandion]

Also are pirates still looking to build a stadium in Cornwall?

[FKAS]

But what is the plan? Everything I've read points to failure both on the field and local buy in. It could be exaggerated I know but Coventry doesn't seem to have taken them to heart.

Aren't they averaging 15k? That's an improvement on where they were.

Puja

I don't know, only that it seems a big soul less stadium when I've watched. It's more some of the articles I've read regarding money spent to build a fan base that hasn't worked. I believe they give a large number of tickets away? They went big on stars but it didn't work out. It reads like a total failure and now back to financial issues.

Any Wasps fans want to set the record straight? Not a diss but a genuine question.

To be fair most rugby clubs have had financial issues after Covid. Wasps failure to refinance their bonds appears their biggest issue. Get that over the line and then another full season of fixtures plus conferences, corporate and charity Christmas parties, gigs and weddings should see them through.

They have a payment plan with HMRC but I don't think HMRC are trying to wind them up. I suspect most clubs have a payment plan with HMRC.

[pandion]

Aren't they averaging 15k? That's an improvement on where they were.

Puja

I don't know, only that it seems a big soul less stadium when I've watched. It's more some of the articles I've read regarding money spent to build a fan base that hasn't worked. I believe they give a large number of tickets away? They went big on stars but it didn't work out. It reads like a total failure and now back to financial issues.

Any Wasps fans want to set the record straight? Not a diss but a genuine question.

To be fair most rugby clubs have had financial issues after Covid. Wasps failure to refinance their bonds appears their biggest issue. Get that over the line and then another full season of fixtures plus conferences, corporate and charity Christmas parties, gigs and weddings should see them through.

They have a payment plan with HMRC but I don't think HMRC are trying to wind them up. I suspect most clubs have a payment plan with HMRC.

Well i hope the locals buy in and all that non rugby stuff is a bonus not a necessity. It'd be good to get a bit more atmosphere even on telly from there and the AJ Bell etc. Half empty stadiums look and sound awful.

[FKAS]

I don't know, only that it seems a big soul less stadium when I've watched. It's more some of the articles I've read regarding money spent to build a fan base that hasn't worked. I believe they give a large number of tickets away? They went big on stars but it didn't work out. It reads like a total failure and now back to financial issues.

Any Wasps fans want to set the record straight? Not a diss but a genuine question.

To be fair most rugby clubs have had financial issues after Covid. Wasps failure to refinance their bonds appears their biggest issue. Get that over the line and then another full season of fixtures plus conferences, corporate and charity Christmas parties, gigs and weddings should see them through.

They have a payment plan with HMRC but I don't think HMRC are trying to wind them up. I suspect most clubs have a payment plan with HMRC.

Well i hope the locals buy in and all that non rugby stuff is a bonus not a necessity. It'd be good to get a bit more atmosphere even on telly from there and the AJ Bell etc. Half empty stadiums look and sound awful.

Have Wasps crowds ever provided an atmosphere? They've tended to move around too much to have a core crowd big enough. For big games perhaps but they need some success to get back to that. Success in general would be good for them, easier to get drawn into supporting a team on the up than one that's middling or towards the lower half of the league.

Coventry will always be a tough city to break as they had an established Championship club already and obviously at odds with the (somewhat entitled) football club. A charm offensive might still win them round, starting with the pitch.

[FKAS]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/worc ... -v6jf2k0wh

Pressure building on the club's owners. Local councils banding together to block any attempted construction on or around the Sixways site that isn't rugby related to stop profiteering from Wuss's situation.

[pandion]

To be fair most rugby clubs have had financial issues after Covid. Wasps failure to refinance their bonds appears their biggest issue. Get that over the line and then another full season of fixtures plus conferences, corporate and charity Christmas parties, gigs and weddings should see them through.

They have a payment plan with HMRC but I don't think HMRC are trying to wind them up. I suspect most clubs have a payment plan with HMRC.

Well i hope the locals buy in and all that non rugby stuff is a bonus not a necessity. It'd be good to get a bit more atmosphere even on telly from there and the AJ Bell etc. Half empty stadiums look and sound awful.

Have Wasps crowds ever provided an atmosphere? They've tended to move around too much to have a core crowd big enough. For big games perhaps but they need some success to get back to that. Success in general would be good for them, easier to get drawn into supporting a team on the up than one that's middling or towards the lower half of the league.

Coventry will always be a tough city to break as they had an established Championship club already and obviously at odds with the (somewhat entitled) football club. A charm offensive might still win them round, starting with the pitch.

Hindsight is wonderful and I don't know if they tried or not but wouldn't a merger have been a good move. It reads like everything that is Coventry views them as an invader. Be interesting to see how many Coventry fans have switched or go to a Wasps game.

[Mr Mwenda]

I had always assumed merging was to be the way forward, a blue and white change kit as part of a big cov outreach initiative.

[Puja]

I don't see how merging would endear them to Cov fans. Not only is a Premiership club moving to your city, they're now eating your club and destroying its independent existence. Can't see that being a hearts and minds winner.

Puja

[pandion]

I don't see how merging would endear them to Cov fans. Not only is a Premiership club moving to your city, they're now eating your club and destroying its independent existence. Can't see that being a hearts and minds winner.

Puja

What you describe above seems to be most supporters take on it now. That's not what I'd describe as a merger but I'm probably being unrealistic. I have come across tribalism locally in football teams that are both a bit shit but refuse to become a district side. A lot of casual fans now travel to watch a better quality game.

[I R Geech]

Have a listen to Mark Evans on the latest Flats & Shanks pod.

[Mellsblue]

Great listen with Mark Evans on the state of the game here. Several bullseyes hit. Recommended.

Does anyone know where I can find Mark Evans’ thoughts on it all?