FOSTER WATCH 2K22! WILL HE STAY OR WILL HE GO!

[Big D]

Bonkers refereeing at times in that game.

[Puja]

Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

[Big D]

Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

It didn't seem especially egregious IMO.

Ref didn't have a great game. Very inconsistent. I'd have sent off Swain tbh. It was a dirty cheap shot with the only likely outcome being a knee injury to Tupaea.

[paddy no 11]

Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the comp

[Peej]

Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the comp

It was bloody obvious time wasting, but it wasn't all Foley. There's a good 20 seconds between Raynal awarding the penalty, and then stopping the clock the first time because they are wasting time to warn them. During this period, the Wallaby forwards are in a huddle having a chat and not paying any attention or showing that they are ready to go, and White is just standing there holding the ball making no effort to play. Raynal is telling him to play, but he is ignoring him. So Raynal stops the clock, tells him to hurry up, before the putting the clock back on. Foley has the ball by this point. 10 seconds later Foley hasn't even taken a step. The Aussie backs are screaming at him to kick the ball, but he doesn't go, and he pushes it too far at which point Raynal blows the whistle.

Aussie attempts at gamesmanship cost them the game.

[Puja]

Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the comp

It was bloody obvious time wasting, but it wasn't all Foley. There's a good 20 seconds between Raynal awarding the penalty, and then stopping the clock the first time because they are wasting time to warn them. During this period, the Wallaby forwards are in a huddle having a chat and not paying any attention or showing that they are ready to go, and White is just standing there holding the ball making no effort to play. Raynal is telling him to play, but he is ignoring him. So Raynal stops the clock, tells him to hurry up, before the putting the clock back on. Foley has the ball by this point. 10 seconds later Foley hasn't even taken a step. The Aussie backs are screaming at him to kick the ball, but he doesn't go, and he pushes it too far at which point Raynal blows the whistle.

Aussie attempts at gamesmanship cost them the game.

In which case, I've lost some sympathy for them. If the ref stops the clock and actively warns you about timewasting, then you kick the fucking ball straight away. Apart from anything else, you can timewaste some more on the way to the lineout and, worst case scenario, better to give away the scrum 40m out than 5m from your line.

Puja

[Spiffy]

Why do the stupid tits who organize these matches feel the need to fill a roofed stadium with smoke before the kick off? The first 15-20 min of the game were just about invisible.

[Cameo]

It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the comp

It was bloody obvious time wasting, but it wasn't all Foley. There's a good 20 seconds between Raynal awarding the penalty, and then stopping the clock the first time because they are wasting time to warn them. During this period, the Wallaby forwards are in a huddle having a chat and not paying any attention or showing that they are ready to go, and White is just standing there holding the ball making no effort to play. Raynal is telling him to play, but he is ignoring him. So Raynal stops the clock, tells him to hurry up, before the putting the clock back on. Foley has the ball by this point. 10 seconds later Foley hasn't even taken a step. The Aussie backs are screaming at him to kick the ball, but he doesn't go, and he pushes it too far at which point Raynal blows the whistle.

Aussie attempts at gamesmanship cost them the game.

In which case, I've lost some sympathy for them. If the ref stops the clock and actively warns you about timewasting, then you kick the fucking ball straight away. Apart from anything else, you can timewaste some more on the way to the lineout and, worst case scenario, better to give away the scrum 40m out than 5m from your line.

Puja

I was watching with the sound off so haven't heard the details of the warnings but I think Aussie arguments are hugely undermined by the site of Foley's own teammate behind him screaming at him to kick it.

[Cameo]

Otherwise an entertaining game but neither team will be that happy with how they played.

The All Blacks are capable of scoring some extraordinary tries, but seem to have an off switch. In this game it was their defence.

Also, unbelievable bit of defence from Reiko Ioine on Kellaway to save a try in the first half. I'm not sure I've seen a better try saver and he is making a habit of it.

Finally, with Havi'ili and Tupae presumably out, I wonder if we'll see Tuavasa Scheck get his first start next week or if they go for Jordie Barrett.

[Cameo]

Watching again, there are warnings and I enjoy the idea of penalising for time wasting, but it certainly isn't the most extreme example of delaying a penalty that I have seen. Nothing compared to some of SA's and they get told to speed up again and again but nothing comes of it.

I hope that refs stick to it from now on.

[Puja]

Fair play to the ref, he's got minerals to make a call like that.

Puja

[Spy]

Break down of the timing:




It was flagrant and deliberate time wasting, and the ref was clearly wanting action. Even Foley's team mates were urging him to get on with it. That said, I don't recall seeing this call ever being made before.

Did he blow a free kick earlier in the game for the scrum half being too slow to use the ball as well? I seem to recall that he did, which is also rare. Or maybe I imagined that.

I also think the Australian writer's 78.59 "Foley begins kick" interpretation is a stretch, when 5 seconds later when the free kick is blown Foley still hasn't managed to kick the damned thing.

[Mikey Brown]

I was unsure at first. Possibly slightly confusing that he does say “time off” amongst his initial directions, but my sympathy for Aus has been reduced to absolute zero after seeing this angle.

[32nd Man]

Does anyone believe he'd have made that call against the ABs in NZ though?

Limited sympathy because of the Swain cheap shot, but, having seen the time elapsed on at least one of the AB kicks at goal, it really does smack of calling one for the assessor, where something that's been happening all game gets pulled up in the last few minutes.

[Big D]

I was unsure at first. Possibly slightly confusing that he does say “time off” amongst his initial directions, but my sympathy for Aus has been reduced to absolute zero after seeing this angle.

Seen the clip of Raynal explaining hid decision to White rather than "running away" as was reported. Fair play to him for that.

Based on the footage and him clearly telling Oz to get on with it I no longer think it is that harsh even if it was unusual.

[Big D]

Does anyone believe he'd have made that call against the ABs in NZ though?

Limited sympathy because of the Swain cheap shot, but, having seen the time elapsed on at least one of the AB kicks at goal, it really does smack of calling one for the assessor, where something that's been happening all game gets pulled up in the last few minutes.

Kicks at goal have a time limit. Free kicks and penalties must be taken without delay according to the laws with free kick the sanction for time wasting.

[Puja]

Free kicks and penalties must be taken without delay according to the laws with free kick the sanction for time wasting.

It has actually been bugging me that he gave the wrong punishment by immediately awarding a scrum. While the Kiwis would probably have opted for a scrum anyway if they'd been given a free kick, it bothers me that he's made such a dramatic and game-deciding decision and then got it wrong.

It stiĺl feels like a harsh and unnecessary call to me - yes the Australians were fucking about and there is always the risk of finding out, but it wasn't a necessary call. He could have called time off and said that he would stop time while the lineout was being formed to avoid any further timewasting, but he chose to call a technicality that decided the game. He was technically correct, but it didn't show a very good feel for the game, IMO.

Puja

[morepork]

The Wobbalies were cynical at the pointy end of proceedings. If the decision was technically correct, how is the decision defined as subjective?

[Puja]

The Wobbalies were cynical at the pointy end of proceedings. If the decision was technically correct, how is the decision defined as subjective?

Rugby union refereeing.

Puja

[morepork]

The Wobbalies were cynical at the pointy end of proceedings. If the decision was technically correct, how is the decision defined as subjective?

Rugby union refereeing.

Puja

You are advocating for subjective interpretation of laws by different refs?

[Puja]

The Wobbalies were cynical at the pointy end of proceedings. If the decision was technically correct, how is the decision defined as subjective?

Rugby union refereeing.

Puja

You are advocating for subjective interpretation of laws by different refs?

Not advocating, more noting that it already exists. Someone like Matthew Carley would never have given that decision (and that's not necessarily a compliment to him). I'd also not expect Owens to give that decision (he would absolutely have stopped time until the lineout was formed or insisted that time was rewound, plus given some saucy commentary to White). Whereas if you'd told me this happened and asked me to guess the ref, Raynal would've been pretty high on the list (probably level with Barnes? Although Barnes's communication would've been a lot better and would've likely involved calling time off and saying, "If you don't take it, I'm going to free-kick you.").

The laws are themselves subjective, given that there's no definition of what counts as time wasting and players have been let off with far worse in far less dramatic circumstances.

Also, Hello World. Good to be back.

Puja

[morepork]

Dramatic circumstances is exactly why the decision matters. This is inherent in the distinction between being an annoying prick and to bend the rules to gain an advantage and just being a Kok when the situation is not so dramatic. Both should be penalty worthy, but the former more so because it impacts on the ability to compete as per the rules of the game.

[Puja]

Dramatic circumstances is exactly why the decision matters. This is inherent in the distinction between being an annoying prick and to bend the rules to gain an advantage and just being a Kok when the situation is not so dramatic. Both should be penalty worthy, but the former more so because it impacts on the ability to compete as per the rules of the game.

I do get that point and would be equally annoyed if it were done against my team. However, I've gone and rewatched the video and Australia waste a maximum of 25 seconds of actual gametime after the earliest point at which a team playing quickly could've kicked it (and practically only 10 seconds after a team not in a hurry would've kicked it). That feels like an awfully small amount of actual time wasted for the punishment of a 5m scrum in the middle of the pitch to be appropriate, especially since they could be recouped by calling time off while the lineout was being formed.

If it'd been on the halfway and NZ had taken that possession and scored from a distance, I'd have a lot less sympathy, but changing a penalty to clear the lines, into probably the best attacking position on the pitch is a big turnaround and, while technically correct, it changed the result of the game, which I don't think the 25 seconds would have done.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Dramatic circumstances is exactly why the decision matters. This is inherent in the distinction between being an annoying prick and to bend the rules to gain an advantage and just being a Kok when the situation is not so dramatic. Both should be penalty worthy, but the former more so because it impacts on the ability to compete as per the rules of the game.

I do get that point and would be equally annoyed if it were done against my team. However, I've gone and rewatched the video and Australia waste a maximum of 25 seconds of actual gametime after the earliest point at which a team playing quickly could've kicked it (and practically only 10 seconds after a team not in a hurry would've kicked it). That feels like an awfully small amount of actual time wasted for the punishment of a 5m scrum in the middle of the pitch to be appropriate, especially since they could be recouped by calling time off while the lineout was being formed.

If it'd been on the halfway and NZ had taken that possession and scored from a distance, I'd have a lot less sympathy, but changing a penalty to clear the lines, into probably the best attacking position on the pitch is a big turnaround and, while technically correct, it changed the result of the game, which I don't think the 25 seconds would have done.

Puja

That was my first instinct, but reviewing the footage, the ref gives plenty of warnings which are all ignored. Foley's team mates are screaming for him to kick the ball, but he knows his team is at a player disadvantage and wants to chew up as many seconds as possible. I think its the right call, as frustrating as that is for Aussies right now.

[J Dory]

The ref didn't give NZ the game, he gave them a scrum and fairynuff looking at the reddit vid. Would be interested to know what percentage of 5m scrums result in tries, Liz, we need you.