Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23

[Banquo]

Was that really ever an option?

Lancaster has been in a coaching consultant role at Leinster working under Cullen for most of the time post England. If he wants another shot at international level I suspect he knows he needs to go and be the main man somewhere or join an international team as an assistant and work his way up.

IF the RFU decide for the next head coach that he should be English, that he should have international experience and that he should have a track record of winning things, I'd suggest that Burt has to be on the shortlist. (All three attributes might be logical after their experience with Jones, especially in PR terms considering where Englush rugby is in general, perhaps?)

I'm not advocating Burt for the job, just suggesting what the RFU stance could be.

It's a restrictive set of attributes re English and international experience.

Borthwick
McFarland
Farrell Snr
Baxter
Lancaster
Skivington
Rowntree

If you add winning things that rules out McFarland somewhat harshly, Rowntree and Skivington.

Who have I missed?

even Baxter's international spurs are a tad small. No idea why one would demand that the HC be English tho.

[Oakboy]

IF the RFU decide for the next head coach that he should be English, that he should have international experience and that he should have a track record of winning things, I'd suggest that Burt has to be on the shortlist. (All three attributes might be logical after their experience with Jones, especially in PR terms considering where Englush rugby is in general, perhaps?)

I'm not advocating Burt for the job, just suggesting what the RFU stance could be.

It's a restrictive set of attributes re English and international experience.

Borthwick
McFarland
Farrell Snr
Baxter
Lancaster
Skivington
Rowntree

If you add winning things that rules out McFarland somewhat harshly, Rowntree and Skivington.

Who have I missed?

even Baxter's international spurs are a tad small. No idea why one would demand that the HC be English tho.

Surely, logic suggests that he SHOULD be English unless there is no decent candidate or unless there is an absolutely outstanding foreign candidate. Let's face it, appointing a foreign, perpetual runner-up has hardly been a success in terms of winning competitions or in terms of PR/fan popularity.

I'd add Edwards to the list.

[Banquo]

It's a restrictive set of attributes re English and international experience.

Borthwick
McFarland
Farrell Snr
Baxter
Lancaster
Skivington
Rowntree

If you add winning things that rules out McFarland somewhat harshly, Rowntree and Skivington.

Who have I missed?

even Baxter's international spurs are a tad small. No idea why one would demand that the HC be English tho.

Surely, logic suggests that he SHOULD be English unless there is no decent candidate or unless there is an absolutely outstanding foreign candidate. Let's face it, appointing a foreign, perpetual runner-up has hardly been a success in terms of winning competitions or in terms of PR/fan popularity.

I'd add Edwards to the list.

what logic?

Jones made a step change to our performance immediately and a miles better rwc performance than for 16 years (even if we did reach the final in 2007...we lost our first game by 20++ points). Comfortably our best coach since SCW- hardly a perpetual runner up prior to England either. Now I'm pretty frustrated with him, but he was a huge improvement on his immediate predecessors. In percentage terms easily our 'winningest' coach

(Three 6N championships, two triple crowns, 1 grand slam, world coach of the year 2017. 5 asian championships with Japan and a 71% record with them, with some big scalps. tri nations and bledisloe with Oz. Staffer in the SA world cup win 2007. Very good record with the Brumbies, including a Super rugby champ; decent CV tbh)

[Oakboy]

even Baxter's international spurs are a tad small. No idea why one would demand that the HC be English tho.

Surely, logic suggests that he SHOULD be English unless there is no decent candidate or unless there is an absolutely outstanding foreign candidate. Let's face it, appointing a foreign, perpetual runner-up has hardly been a success in terms of winning competitions or in terms of PR/fan popularity.

I'd add Edwards to the list.

what logic?

Jones made a step change to our performance immediately and a miles better rwc performance than for 16 years (even if we did reach the final in 2007...we lost our first game by 20++ points). Comfortably our best coach since SCW- hardly a perpetual runner up prior to England either. Now I'm pretty frustrated with him, but he was a huge improvement on his immediate predecessors. In percentage terms easily our 'winningest' coach

(Three 6N championships, two triple crowns, 1 grand slam, world coach of the year 2017. 5 asian championships with Japan and a 71% record with them, with some big scalps. tri nations and bledisloe with Oz. Staffer in the SA world cup win 2007. Very good record with the Brumbies, including a Super rugby champ; decent CV tbh)

I've never counted 6N wins, only GSs. So, in 7 years he's won just once.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Surely the best candidate for HC is the best candidate agnostic of his or her nationality.

[Timbo]

Surely, logic suggests that he SHOULD be English unless there is no decent candidate or unless there is an absolutely outstanding foreign candidate. Let's face it, appointing a foreign, perpetual runner-up has hardly been a success in terms of winning competitions or in terms of PR/fan popularity.

I'd add Edwards to the list.

what logic?

Jones made a step change to our performance immediately and a miles better rwc performance than for 16 years (even if we did reach the final in 2007...we lost our first game by 20++ points). Comfortably our best coach since SCW- hardly a perpetual runner up prior to England either. Now I'm pretty frustrated with him, but he was a huge improvement on his immediate predecessors. In percentage terms easily our 'winningest' coach

(Three 6N championships, two triple crowns, 1 grand slam, world coach of the year 2017. 5 asian championships with Japan and a 71% record with them, with some big scalps. tri nations and bledisloe with Oz. Staffer in the SA world cup win 2007. Very good record with the Brumbies, including a Super rugby champ; decent CV tbh)

I've never counted 6N wins, only GSs. So, in 7 years he's won just once.

Well I’ve only ever counted World Cup wins in years ending in 3, so we’re still reigning champs.

[Puja]

Surely, logic suggests that he SHOULD be English unless there is no decent candidate or unless there is an absolutely outstanding foreign candidate. Let's face it, appointing a foreign, perpetual runner-up has hardly been a success in terms of winning competitions or in terms of PR/fan popularity.

I'd add Edwards to the list.

what logic?

Jones made a step change to our performance immediately and a miles better rwc performance than for 16 years (even if we did reach the final in 2007...we lost our first game by 20++ points). Comfortably our best coach since SCW- hardly a perpetual runner up prior to England either. Now I'm pretty frustrated with him, but he was a huge improvement on his immediate predecessors. In percentage terms easily our 'winningest' coach

(Three 6N championships, two triple crowns, 1 grand slam, world coach of the year 2017. 5 asian championships with Japan and a 71% record with them, with some big scalps. tri nations and bledisloe with Oz. Staffer in the SA world cup win 2007. Very good record with the Brumbies, including a Super rugby champ; decent CV tbh)

I've never counted 6N wins, only GSs. So, in 7 years he's won just once.

That'd be valid if this was still 2002 and the 6N was basically us versus the French and it was an upset if we lost to a Celtic team. However, that's really not the case nowadays and it's a little bit arrogant to say it's worthless if it's not a clean sweep.

Puja

[Oakboy]

what logic?

Jones made a step change to our performance immediately and a miles better rwc performance than for 16 years (even if we did reach the final in 2007...we lost our first game by 20++ points). Comfortably our best coach since SCW- hardly a perpetual runner up prior to England either. Now I'm pretty frustrated with him, but he was a huge improvement on his immediate predecessors. In percentage terms easily our 'winningest' coach

(Three 6N championships, two triple crowns, 1 grand slam, world coach of the year 2017. 5 asian championships with Japan and a 71% record with them, with some big scalps. tri nations and bledisloe with Oz. Staffer in the SA world cup win 2007. Very good record with the Brumbies, including a Super rugby champ; decent CV tbh)

I've never counted 6N wins, only GSs. So, in 7 years he's won just once.

That'd be valid if this was still 2002 and the 6N was basically us versus the French and it was an upset if we lost to a Celtic team. However, that's really not the case nowadays and it's a little bit arrogant to say it's worthless if it's not a clean sweep.

Puja

I understand why you say that and my comment was a tad tongue-in-cheek - unsuccessfully indicated by the smiley. However, there is a serious side to it, IMO. Top coaches can be judged by results of 'crunch' matches. Jones loses too many.

[Raggs]

So which internationally experienced coach has won their crunch matches at international? The only one still going is surely Rassie?

[Scrumhead]

Yep. That’s exactly what I was about to say.

And re. the comment on ‘perpetual runner-up’ … not many coaches get to finals in the first place. Based on your criteria, there are basically no candidates.

[FKAS]

George Martin, JVP and Freddie Steward all sign new contracts with Leicester Tigers.

[Mikey Brown]

Is the Martin at 8 experiment over? I thought we might see more of that with Weise out and Leibenberg fitting in anywhere.

Wrong thread I guess, but whatever.

[Puja]

George Martin, JVP and Freddie Steward all sign new contracts with Leicester Tigers.

Fucking yes! That's just the news I needed to cheer me up today. Excellent work from all involved - they're the players that the Leicester team of the next 5-10 years will be built around.

Puja

[Banquo]

Surely the best candidate for HC is the best candidate agnostic of his or her nationality.

yup. I'd quite like Sarina Wiegman to have a crack at the men's footy team. Maybe even the rugby team too- she's at least good at subbing

[Banquo]

George Martin, JVP and Freddie Steward all sign new contracts with Leicester Tigers.

Fucking yes! That's just the news I needed to cheer me up today. Excellent work from all involved - they're the players that the Leicester team of the next 5-10 years will be built around.

Puja

+ Chessum x 2

[Banquo]

Is the Martin at 8 experiment over? I thought we might see more of that with Weise out and Leibenberg fitting in anywhere.

Wrong thread I guess, but whatever.

I didn't even spot that had happened- can't quite see him as an 8 tbh.

[Puja]

George Martin, JVP and Freddie Steward all sign new contracts with Leicester Tigers.

Fucking yes! That's just the news I needed to cheer me up today. Excellent work from all involved - they're the players that the Leicester team of the next 5-10 years will be built around.

Puja

+ Chessum x 2

Heyes as well. The future's bright and it's mostly from the academy.

Puja

[FKAS]

Fucking yes! That's just the news I needed to cheer me up today. Excellent work from all involved - they're the players that the Leicester team of the next 5-10 years will be built around.

Puja

+ Chessum x 2

Heyes as well. The future's bright and it's mostly from the academy.

Puja

Whitcombe, Vane, Heyes
Chessum, Chessum
Martin, Reffell, Ilione
JVP, ?
Woodward, Cusick
?, Steward, ?

Well the under 23 home grown pack looks excellent, backs could do with a few more sticking their hands up though there's a few coming through there as well as even more forwards. Carmichael one of the development lads came off the bench Vs Sale and looked slightly taller than Chessum Jnr must be causing no end of issues for the health and safety staff raising all the door frames so these lads can get through.

Martin, JVP and Steward are all great young players. Real statement of intent by the club to sign them up nice and early. Will allow them to concentrate on the season.

[Banquo]

Fucking yes! That's just the news I needed to cheer me up today. Excellent work from all involved - they're the players that the Leicester team of the next 5-10 years will be built around.

Puja

+ Chessum x 2

Heyes as well. The future's bright and it's mostly from the academy.

Puja

Funny that...

Tiger's Academy.....the wasted years. But all good now I guess.

[Mellsblue]

It’ll be interesting to see how they handle the salary cap issues that inevitably come with having a bumper crop of academy graduates. It’s a good problem to have but I’ll never not think it’s mad that you’re effectively penalised for producing quality EQP.

[FKAS]

It’ll be interesting to see how they handle the salary cap issues that inevitably come with having a bumper crop of academy graduates. It’s a good problem to have but I’ll never not think it’s mad that you’re effectively penalised for producing quality EQP.

Yes it's going to be tricky. As long as the academy keeps churning out talent in the short term we can move on some of the older squad guys and then promote internally to free up cap, on the basis a journeyman pro will want more money than a local lad on his first contract. The moneyball style signings will have to continue as well, that should be easier given more development players will be released early as clubs with limited budget won't give opportunities to late developers (Kelly an example this) and similarly older players of quality will find short term deals only on offer (Tigers got Gopperth on the basis we were happy to do a two year deal and Wasps would only do 1).

Nadolo and Hegarty are leaving mid season and half an annual salary for those two should help cover some of those uplifts already noted. Ashton, Wigglesworth, Snyman and Green could all be moved on or retire to allow for balancing of books but an issue currently is that we aren't really producing back three players through the academy, we could do with a few emerging or some the likes of Shelley and Saumaki really coming good.

[twitchy]

[Mellsblue]

I want him to play fullback too

[Puja]

Split off the Furbank discussion cause it needed its own thread

Mod

[Puja]

Rumours on Worcester players:

Bath and Ulster after Sutherland. Bath makes sense, as they presumably have medical joker money with Obano going down injured
Faiva going back to Australia
Hatherell to La Rochelle as soon as he's able.
Ted Hill refusing to listen to any offers until Worcester are officially done for.

Can anyone think of clubs apart from Bath that might have salary cap space from injuries?

Puja