Snap General Election called

[Mellsblue]

Re Gove a sadist. One unnamed Truss supporting MP’s response to Gove leading the 45p rebellion was that he was a sadist who enjoys the Machiavellian side of politics a bit too much. His knifing of Boris in his first tilt at the leadership was used as supporting evidence.

[Which Tyler]

[Stom]

Ooft. Yes, that's exactly what the pill popping UK community needs: more access to potentially harmful drugs.

[Galfon]

Cunning plan to skirt the abyss, from TeamRishi (rumourdly..)
Get LizT to resign,
Install RishiS as Prime Min.
Keep JeremyH as Chancellor
Appoint PennyM as For. Sec.

Avoid GE
..and the band kept playing

[Puja]

Jesus fuck. A health secretary who apparently knows the square root of fuck all about the dangers of breeding antibiotic-resistant bacteria. No doubt when she says "has handed out her own supplies", she means "the pills that I didn't take for the full course because I was feeling so much better," and when she says "people who were feeling unwell", she no doubt means, "people who weren't given them by a doctor because they were suffering from viruses, not bacteriological infections."

I'd like to hope there is someone competent and powerful in her purview who will stop her making ridiculous decisions based on uninformed and idiotic beliefs, but that didn't seem to happen for the Treasury, so I guess the UK is due to become Superbugs Central.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Nowhere near a fan of this plan but…
a) are we to believe pharmacists are more likely to give them out than docs
b) docs already say they give them out just to shut us up/get us out the door/avoid telling us we’re hypochondriacs
c) we’re miles behind France etc on use of pharmacists and that needs to change

Coffey continues to flush UC credit down the loo

[Which Tyler]

A) yes (or at least, inappropriately) Pharmacists aren't trained in diagnosis, which means they can't diagnose, and therefore don't know if an infection is bacterial or not

B) not for a long, long time (it's steroids and mild opiates now)

C) agreed

[Stom]

Nowhere near a fan of this plan but…
a) are we to believe pharmacists are more likely to give them out than docs
b) docs already say they give them out just to shut us up/get us out the door/avoid telling us we’re hypochondriacs
c) we’re miles behind France etc on use of pharmacists and that needs to change

Coffey continues to flush UC credit down the loo

Over here, most doctors prescribe antibiotics for everything, and it's terrible. I even had an argument with a doctor about my sinusitis. I mean...if I'd seen her more than once about the same problem, perhaps you'd like to look at what might be causing the problem...

[Puja]

Nowhere near a fan of this plan but…
a) are we to believe pharmacists are more likely to give them out than docs
b) docs already say they give them out just to shut us up/get us out the door/avoid telling us we’re hypochondriacs
c) we’re miles behind France etc on use of pharmacists and that needs to change

Coffey continues to flush UC credit down the loo

I think the lack of access to doctors acts as a brake - it's a lot easier to berate a pharmacist, whereas going to a doctor would be mold likely to result in a person just getting over their cold. Plus, the message about easing access is not a good one - it might not be right or correct, but the public perception is that a pharmacist is less of a serious medical practitioner than a doctor and therefore it's not serious medicine to be taken seriously if it doesn't require a prescription.

Plus Coffey's stories about how she handed them out like sweeties is not inspiring confidence in anything she proposes.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

#justiceforverywelltrainedpharmicists

[Mellsblue]

A) yes (or at least, inappropriately) Pharmacists aren't trained in diagnosis, which means they can't diagnose, and therefore don't know if an infection is bacterial or not

B) not for a long, long time (it's steroids and mild opiates now)

C) agreed

B) it’s true for all three

[Sandydragon]

Crisis ?...what crisis.
Can't see avoiding a GE without small miracles now.

If she survives another week it will be a minor miracle.

[Zhivago]

I'm speechless. This is just so dangerous.

[Mellsblue]

Well done DC:

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... initiative

[cashead]

Say what you like about Liz Truss but she does have a cracking pair of knockers. She could definitely call my general erection.


Sorry about that, I know we can't say that sort of thing anymore, I was having a 1970's flashback.

Then don't.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Jesus fuck. A health secretary who apparently knows the square root of fuck all about the dangers of breeding antibiotic-resistant bacteria. No doubt when she says "has handed out her own supplies", she means "the pills that I didn't take for the full course because I was feeling so much better," and when she says "people who were feeling unwell", she no doubt means, "people who weren't given them by a doctor because they were suffering from viruses, not bacteriological infections."

I'd like to hope there is someone competent and powerful in her purview who will stop her making ridiculous decisions based on uninformed and idiotic beliefs, but that didn't seem to happen for the Treasury, so I guess the UK is due to become Superbugs Central.

Puja

Seriously, someone should tell Coffey that the government has science advisors and perhaps science decisions should be run past them first. We've never allowed pharmacists to sell antibiotics before . . . maybe there's a reason for that? But then, anything that makes us more like the USA has to be good, eh? No doubt this has nothing to do with lobbyists from pharmaceutical companies.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Hilarious U-turns from the Mail and Telegraph:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/ ... -liz-truss

Imagine what a state we'd be in if a Telegraph journalist had been PM!

[Which Tyler]

[Son of Mathonwy]

I think there are just too many Tories who fancy being PM for this to be a coronation (and so avoid the members having a say), eg Sunak, Mordaunt, Johnson, Hunt, Wallace, Badenoch.

Especially since after 2024 the options for being a Tory PM will be very limited.

(Hopefully the options for a Tory MP will also be considerably reduced )

[Which Tyler]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... f89f552eb3

Nadine Dorries Says Any Tory MP Plot To Oust Liz Truss Would 'Overturn Democracy'
Former culture secretary blasts "absurdly called grandee" male MPs.

Nadine Dorries - who has previously called for two Tory prime ministers to resign - has accused MPs plotting to oust Liz Truss of trying to “overturn democracy”.
...
ARTICLE CONTINUES

[Puja]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... f89f552eb3

Nadine Dorries Says Any Tory MP Plot To Oust Liz Truss Would 'Overturn Democracy'
Former culture secretary blasts "absurdly called grandee" male MPs.

Nadine Dorries - who has previously called for two Tory prime ministers to resign - has accused MPs plotting to oust Liz Truss of trying to “overturn democracy”.
...
ARTICLE CONTINUES

I mean, she's overwrought and ridiculous, but she does accidentally have something of a point. She's called for two Tory PMs to resign, for them then to be replaced by their constitutional process - the fact that their process is terrible and so is our electoral and governing system is beside the point; it's the rules that have been agreed upon up to this point. To be planning to circumvent them to get rid of her and then circumvent them to implant a candidate to be crowned is fairly shitty behaviour.

It's not the worst of the problems with this whole situation, but it is definitely a problem.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... f89f552eb3

Nadine Dorries Says Any Tory MP Plot To Oust Liz Truss Would 'Overturn Democracy'
Former culture secretary blasts "absurdly called grandee" male MPs.

Nadine Dorries - who has previously called for two Tory prime ministers to resign - has accused MPs plotting to oust Liz Truss of trying to “overturn democracy”.
...
ARTICLE CONTINUES

I mean, she's overwrought and ridiculous, but she does accidentally have something of a point. She's called for two Tory PMs to resign, for them then to be replaced by their constitutional process - the fact that their process is terrible and so is our electoral and governing system is beside the point; it's the rules that have been agreed upon up to this point. To be planning to circumvent them to get rid of her and then circumvent them to implant a candidate to be crowned is fairly shitty behaviour.

It's not the worst of the problems with this whole situation, but it is definitely a problem.

Puja

Agreed, replacing a leader mid-term isn't ideal but isn't the worst problem with our system - FPTP is.

Agreed also, not a word leaves Dorries' lips that isn't self-serving bullshit.

I'm a bit torn on the issue (although that may just be Stockholm Syndrome). Under the current rules each party can choose its leader in whatever manner it likes, and if that means changing its own rules, I guess I don't feel it's desperately underhand behavior (in the grand scheme).

Suppose we changed the system so that any mid-term change in PM forces a GE (or maybe, more subtly, a referendum for whether there should be a GE). An unpopular ruling party (or even one that has simply lost some popularity) would be extremely reluctant to replace its leader. With those rules it's unlikely that Johnson (or Thatcher?) would have been deposed.

Actually now that I think about it this might actually be a good thing in the long term - it would prevent some of the shape-shifting that allows the Tories to cling to power

Okay then, this is another one for the written constitution we will never see - if the ruling party changes its leader, and so the PM, then there should be a (legally binding) referendum on whether there should be an immediate GE.

(Given our long parliamentary terms, it might be an idea to have such referendums* after 3 and/or 4 years, to give the country the chance that it desperately wants right now.)


* referendums or referenda? Apparently referendums is the winner:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 56A1D4C78E

[Stom]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... f89f552eb3

I mean, she's overwrought and ridiculous, but she does accidentally have something of a point. She's called for two Tory PMs to resign, for them then to be replaced by their constitutional process - the fact that their process is terrible and so is our electoral and governing system is beside the point; it's the rules that have been agreed upon up to this point. To be planning to circumvent them to get rid of her and then circumvent them to implant a candidate to be crowned is fairly shitty behaviour.

It's not the worst of the problems with this whole situation, but it is definitely a problem.

Puja

Agreed, replacing a leader mid-term isn't ideal but isn't the worst problem with our system - FPTP is.

Agreed also, not a word leaves Dorries' lips that isn't self-serving bullshit.

I'm a bit torn on the issue (although that may just be Stockholm Syndrome). Under the current rules each party can choose its leader in whatever manner it likes, and if that means changing its own rules, I guess I don't feel it's desperately underhand behavior (in the grand scheme).

Suppose we changed the system so that any mid-term change in PM forces a GE (or maybe, more subtly, a referendum for whether there should be a GE). An unpopular ruling party (or even one that has simply lost some popularity) would be extremely reluctant to replace its leader. With those rules it's unlikely that Johnson (or Thatcher?) would have been deposed.

Actually now that I think about it this might actually be a good thing in the long term - it would prevent some of the shape-shifting that allows the Tories to cling to power

Okay then, this is another one for the written constitution we will never see - if the ruling party changes its leader, and so the PM, then there should be a (legally binding) referendum on whether there should be an immediate GE.

(Given our long parliamentary terms, it might be an idea to have such referendums* after 3 and/or 4 years, to give the country the chance that it desperately wants right now.)


* referendums or referenda? Apparently referendums is the winner:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 56A1D4C78E

That would be another shift toward a presidential system, though, and that's something we should be looking to avoid. IMO.

[Which Tyler]

Well, it would appear to be all our fault:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/1 ... tish-coup/

I resent what’s been done to Liz Truss and regret this 'very British coup'. Any Tory who welcomes it is a fool

Deviate from orthodoxy, and you’ll be crushed by the Remainer, ‘expert’-driven establishment

I'm not quite sure how it's remainers' fault that Truss is an idiot - didn't the tory party purge itself of all remainers in 2019? And the current crisis is 100% tory.

[Sandydragon]

Well, it would appear to be all our fault:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/1 ... tish-coup/

I resent what’s been done to Liz Truss and regret this 'very British coup'. Any Tory who welcomes it is a fool

Deviate from orthodoxy, and you’ll be crushed by the Remainer, ‘expert’-driven establishment

I'm not quite sure how it's remainers' fault that Truss is an idiot - didn't the tory party purge itself of all remainers in 2019? And the current crisis is 100% tory.

The Telegraph stopped dealing in reality some time ago. It's our fault entirely for not believing in Brexit hard enough.