Willis, Simmonds or B Curry as starting openside in 6 Nations?

[jngf]

I can think of compelling arguments for starting any of J Willis, S Simmonds or B Curry as starting openside in 6 Nations but interested to hear who others think should get the nod from Borthers?

[FKAS]

How about Earl?

To be honest I think it depends on the rest of the pack and how we want to play.

[Banquo]

How many games has Simmonds played as an openside out of interest?

Willis would be my pick- distinct point of difference, and I'd almost build the back row to take advantage of that.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah you’ve included 2 of the 4 opensides and an 8? In theory Simmonds could be good there, but the additional pace he has over Earl/Curry seems completely negligible in comparison to the rest of their games.

I’d like to see Willis at 6 to be honest, but if we’re stuck with Lawes there then I think Willis at 7.

I’d love Ben Curry to get a shot too, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Earl gets the nod and does well there.

[jngf]

How about Earl?

To be honest I think it depends on the rest of the pack and how we want to play.

Good point - see Earl as very similar to Simmonds, former being very quick but not quite as explosive as the latter.

Also have omitted Ludlum who I really like but see bringing more to the party at 6 or 8 at this level

[Oakboy]

How many games has Simmonds played as an openside out of interest?

Willis would be my pick- distinct point of difference, and I'd almost build the back row to take advantage of that.

Does it matter that much whether Willis wears 6 or 7? If Curry was fit I'd still pick him with both Willises as my first choice back row but that's for later with T Willis not in the squad.

One of Borthwick's areas of expertise is the line-out so if he were to consider it necessary to pick Lawes at 6, I'd not whinge. So, Lawes, Willis, Dombrandt/Simmonds would be OK. If not, Willis and B Curry as flankers works.

I'd have Earl further down the list than B Curry as a starter but I could understand him (or Ludlum) being on the bench. In fact, much as I'd prefer Simmonds to Dombrandt at 8, I'd want neither as the bench man to cover the back row. I think both are categorically No 8s only, so it should be one or other in the 23.

[Puja]

How about Earl?

To be honest I think it depends on the rest of the pack and how we want to play.

Good point - see Earl as very similar to Simmonds, former being very quick but not quite as explosive as the latter.

Also have omitted Ludlum who I really like but see bringing more to the party at 6 or 8 at this level

I have actually been really impressed by Ludlam at 8 for Northampton. He seems to've filled out a bit and has been making some good impacts carrying.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

How about Earl?

To be honest I think it depends on the rest of the pack and how we want to play.

Good point - see Earl as very similar to Simmonds, former being very quick but not quite as explosive as the latter.

Also have omitted Ludlum who I really like but see bringing more to the party at 6 or 8 at this level

I have actually been really impressed by Ludlam at 8 for Northampton. He seems to've filled out a bit and has been making some good impacts carrying.

Puja

That’s a very polite way of saying he’s, erm, improved his beer belly.

[p/d]

B to the C to C to the B Curry for me. Looks in absolute fine fettle.

[Banquo]

How many games has Simmonds played as an openside out of interest?

Willis would be my pick- distinct point of difference, and I'd almost build the back row to take advantage of that.

Does it matter that much whether Willis wears 6 or 7? If Curry was fit I'd still pick him with both Willises as my first choice back row but that's for later with T Willis not in the squad.

One of Borthwick's areas of expertise is the line-out so if he were to consider it necessary to pick Lawes at 6, I'd not whinge. So, Lawes, Willis, Dombrandt/Simmonds would be OK. If not, Willis and B Curry as flankers works.

I'd have Earl further down the list than B Curry as a starter but I could understand him (or Ludlum) being on the bench. In fact, much as I'd prefer Simmonds to Dombrandt at 8, I'd want neither as the bench man to cover the back row. I think both are categorically No 8s only, so it should be one or other in the 23.

It only matters in terms of tasking and roles- but having experience packing down at blindside in particular is important. The number matters little in open play, after a few phases- first and second phase (and maybe more) you will have a specific role, but then it becomes more about tasks that your skills and physique are suited to. For example, I'd be happy to have Willis J floating around in defence looking for turnover opportunities like Hooper does for Oz.

As also said, it does depend a bit on the front five and the overall style in which you aim to play (subject to game planning variations too). I'd be picking Jack Willis though.
Fair play to jgnf, he's always been a LudLAM fan, and he's really impressed this season- much better carrying and ball presentation; not that sure on his fitness though.

[Banquo]

Good point - see Earl as very similar to Simmonds, former being very quick but not quite as explosive as the latter.

Also have omitted Ludlum who I really like but see bringing more to the party at 6 or 8 at this level

I have actually been really impressed by Ludlam at 8 for Northampton. He seems to've filled out a bit and has been making some good impacts carrying.

Puja

That’s a very polite way of saying he’s, erm, improved his beer belly.

yes- he has been very much better in terms of positive contributions and accuracy this season....but with Saints pace of play, he looks to be blowing out of his ar5e after 50 mins or so; he tends to just watch any kick tennis going over his head rather than expend any energy getting somewhere useful.

[Scrumhead]

How about Earl?

To be honest I think it depends on the rest of the pack and how we want to play.

Good point - see Earl as very similar to Simmonds, former being very quick but not quite as explosive as the latter.

Also have omitted Ludlum who I really like but see bringing more to the party at 6 or 8 at this level

They have similar qualities, but I feel like Simmonds’ effectiveness is a lot more dependent on how he’s used and the players around him. Whether he’s even a flanker is up for debate IMO.

Earl might not be ‘quite as explosive’, but he’s unequivocally a flanker and is significantly better in what I’d regard as the core fundamentals of the openside role. Specifically, he’s a better defender, a much better breakdown operator/jackal and arguably a better link player (he passes, Simmonds doesn’t really).

In a straight shoot out for the 7 shirt, I’d take Earl every time. If it’s for an impact role from the bench, it’s a much tougher one to call …

To answer the OP, I have a very strong preference for Willis, followed by Ben Curry, primarily because I think they’re a better fit for how England are likely to play than Earl is. However, to be fair, there is a counter argument to say that Earl has worked well in tandem with McFarland who has similar strengths to Lawes, so I definitely wouldn’t dismiss his ability to be effective.

I’m also not against playing Willis and Ben Curry together.

The Scots have owned us at the breakdown in the recent past and with that being top of mind, I really want to see us reverse that trend.

[Cameo]

If it helps, we (Scotland) probably won't have either of our top opensides this time round.

[Scrumhead]

Yeah, I had seen Watson is a doubt and Darge is definitely our. Still … I don’t remember the last time I could confidently say we ‘owned’ anyone at the breakdown so I’ll take any kind of improvement TBH.

[Oakboy]

Yeah, I had seen Watson is a doubt and Darge is definitely our. Still … I don’t remember the last time I could confidently say we ‘owned’ anyone at the breakdown so I’ll take any kind of improvement TBH.

Perhaps, not since Launchbury was at his best? I think it's too easy to just blame the back row. Having said that, if Borthwick can rev Itoje up and if Willis is there, who knows? Dropping Billy V could be with the breakdown in mind, perhaps.

[Stom]

Yeah, I had seen Watson is a doubt and Darge is definitely our. Still … I don’t remember the last time I could confidently say we ‘owned’ anyone at the breakdown so I’ll take any kind of improvement TBH.

Perhaps, not since Launchbury was at his best? I think it's too easy to just blame the back row. Having said that, if Borthwick can rev Itoje up and if Willis is there, who knows? Dropping Billy V could be with the breakdown in mind, perhaps.

I think it's more about tactics than individuals, tbh... I think we could see a drastic improvement just by changing how we approach the breakdown. While it made sense to do what we were doing there, it didn't really bring results, did it?

[Tom Moore]

Willis at 6, Curry at 7, Earl at 8. Don't rate Dombrandt or Simmonds as internationals (would've picked Mercer and Tom Willis).

[Which Tyler]

If it helps, we (Scotland) probably won't have either of our top opensides this time round.

Would you be playing Bayliss there?
It's where he's spent most of his career, even with filling in at 8 (very well) for injured players the last 2 seasons.

[Oakboy]

Yeah, I had seen Watson is a doubt and Darge is definitely our. Still … I don’t remember the last time I could confidently say we ‘owned’ anyone at the breakdown so I’ll take any kind of improvement TBH.

Perhaps, not since Launchbury was at his best? I think it's too easy to just blame the back row. Having said that, if Borthwick can rev Itoje up and if Willis is there, who knows? Dropping Billy V could be with the breakdown in mind, perhaps.

I think it's more about tactics than individuals, tbh... I think we could see a drastic improvement just by changing how we approach the breakdown. While it made sense to do what we were doing there, it didn't really bring results, did it?

You are probably right. All our systems went to pot. Without whingeing more about the damned, departed Australian, one significant improvement that is already evident is that Borthwick has picked assistants who will stand up to be counted. It indicates that he does not have his predecessor's closed mind with less likelihood of making the same mistakes game after game. I'd imagine that coaching teams (especially in the modern game) need constant self-analysis and constructive self-criticism. The days of absolute dictatorial management are gone.

[Mikey Brown]

If it helps, we (Scotland) probably won't have either of our top opensides this time round.

Would you be playing Bayliss there?
It's where he's spent most of his career, even with filling in at 8 (very well) for injured players the last 2 seasons.

Ritchie and Crosbie probably. Bayliss seems to be doing enough to keep making squads but rarely getting in a 23.

[Banquo]

Yeah, I had seen Watson is a doubt and Darge is definitely our. Still … I don’t remember the last time I could confidently say we ‘owned’ anyone at the breakdown so I’ll take any kind of improvement TBH.

Perhaps, not since Launchbury was at his best? I think it's too easy to just blame the back row. Having said that, if Borthwick can rev Itoje up and if Willis is there, who knows? Dropping Billy V could be with the breakdown in mind, perhaps.

Billy V is excellent at the breakdown in defence. He also has a pretty high work rate for a big lad. I think his ball retention has become a big issue, but imo he's still worth having in the squad.

[jngf]

I guess an elephant (or rather rhino?) in the room is what happens when Underhill becomes available, his defence alone imo merits a backrow place and he could cover 6 as well as 7

[Stom]

I guess an elephant (or rather rhino?) in the room is what happens when Underhill becomes available, his defence alone imo merits a backrow place and he could cover 6 as well as 7

I'm not sure it does, tbh...

I mea, on his day he's very good, but he doesn't really fit into the different systems you create to make the most of Lawes at 6, for example. I do think he and Curry work well together, but I also think Willis and Curry would work really well, and Willis provides more upside than Underhill for me, with the caveat that we've not really seen him much at international level.

Given free rein, I would go for Willis and BCurry on the flanks this time round. But I imagine it'll be Lawes and A.N.Other. I just hope it's Willis, not Earl...

[Oakboy]

I guess an elephant (or rather rhino?) in the room is what happens when Underhill becomes available, his defence alone imo merits a backrow place and he could cover 6 as well as 7

I'm not sure it does, tbh...

I mea, on his day he's very good, but he doesn't really fit into the different systems you create to make the most of Lawes at 6, for example. I do think he and Curry work well together, but I also think Willis and Curry would work really well, and Willis provides more upside than Underhill for me, with the caveat that we've not really seen him much at international level.

Given free rein, I would go for Willis and BCurry on the flanks this time round. But I imagine it'll be Lawes and A.N.Other. I just hope it's Willis, not Earl...

Lawes injured again. I doubt he will be considered match fit for the Scotland game even if his current calf issue is a short-term problem.

[Scrumhead]

I guess an elephant (or rather rhino?) in the room is what happens when Underhill becomes available, his defence alone imo merits a backrow place and he could cover 6 as well as 7

I'm not sure it does, tbh...

I mea, on his day he's very good, but he doesn't really fit into the different systems you create to make the most of Lawes at 6, for example. I do think he and Curry work well together, but I also think Willis and Curry would work really well, and Willis provides more upside than Underhill for me, with the caveat that we've not really seen him much at international level.

Given free rein, I would go for Willis and BCurry on the flanks this time round. But I imagine it'll be Lawes and A.N.Other. I just hope it's Willis, not Earl...

I think the quality of Underhill’s defensive skillset often means he’s underrated in an attacking sense (IMO, his carrying and the lines he picks have improved considerably in the last few seasons). However, his injury proneness is a worry and his frequent absences allow other players to make more compelling cases to be picked ahead of him.

I imagine Borthwick is a fan of Underhill’s and it seems crazy to say it given how good he can be, but if the likes of Willis, Earl and Ben Curry take this opportunity, I honestly think he might struggle to make the squad.