Team v Scotland - Announced!

[Epaminondas Pules]

Watching again and in the first ten mins, where we play pretty well, there is a glaring difference in ruck clearance and ball presentations. Scotland clear past the ball giving White really clear ball to just get moving on attack, whilst we’re very inconsistent. Ludlum and Itoje both guilty of just meeting their opponent and losing the shoulders so JVP has to dig. Curry on the other hand clears through and JVP can just move the ball without any hindrance.

Next ten minutes offer a similar view. We effect some cracking clear outs, Curry in particular again, which gives us lovely clean ball and great ruck speed and then we kill our own momentum, Itoje again by just standing at a ruck doing nothing other than getting his legs in the way of the ball. Scotland aren’t competing much. Once on OHCs where the first clearer is Smith vs. two Scots. He should do better but a talk ask, and then Ritchie competes a few mins later cause we don’t clear through again despite throwing like 5 players into the ruck against two Scots.

A stark contrast is Scotland close to our line. Even though it’s forwards against forwards they are still clearing beyond the ball. They are winning the shoulders at the ruck almost every time.

[twitchy]

Agree on most points. We made some really silly mistakes which hopefully can be fixed quite easily. We also did some promising things in attack.

I think we need to just see how we progress across the tournament as we get players back to fitness etc.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Watching again and in the first ten mins, where we play pretty well, there is a glaring difference in ruck clearance and ball presentations. Scotland clear past the ball giving White really clear ball to just get moving on attack, whilst we’re very inconsistent. Ludlum and Itoje both guilty of just meeting their opponent and losing the shoulders so JVP has to dig. Curry on the other hand clears through and JVP can just move the ball without any hindrance.

Next ten minutes offer a similar view. We effect some cracking clear outs, Curry in particular again, which gives us lovely clean ball and great ruck speed and then we kill our own momentum, Itoje again by just standing at a ruck doing nothing other than getting his legs in the way of the ball. Scotland aren’t competing much. Once on OHCs where the first clearer is Smith vs. two Scots. He should do better but a talk ask, and then Ritchie competes a few mins later cause we don’t clear through again despite throwing like 5 players into the ruck against two Scots.

A stark contrast is Scotland close to our line. Even though it’s forwards against forwards they are still clearing beyond the ball. They are winning the shoulders at the ruck almost every time.

One minute later and Itoje is at it again which another awful clear out. A few seconds after JVP has to shove Sinkler (who should be clearing the ruck) out of the way to get the ball and we lose momentum and the ball!

[Epaminondas Pules]

Watching again and in the first ten mins, where we play pretty well, there is a glaring difference in ruck clearance and ball presentations. Scotland clear past the ball giving White really clear ball to just get moving on attack, whilst we’re very inconsistent. Ludlum and Itoje both guilty of just meeting their opponent and losing the shoulders so JVP has to dig. Curry on the other hand clears through and JVP can just move the ball without any hindrance.

Next ten minutes offer a similar view. We effect some cracking clear outs, Curry in particular again, which gives us lovely clean ball and great ruck speed and then we kill our own momentum, Itoje again by just standing at a ruck doing nothing other than getting his legs in the way of the ball. Scotland aren’t competing much. Once on OHCs where the first clearer is Smith vs. two Scots. He should do better but a talk ask, and then Ritchie competes a few mins later cause we don’t clear through again despite throwing like 5 players into the ruck against two Scots.

A stark contrast is Scotland close to our line. Even though it’s forwards against forwards they are still clearing beyond the ball. They are winning the shoulders at the ruck almost every time.

One minute later and Itoje is at it again which another awful clear out. A few seconds after JVP has to shove Sinkler (who should be clearing the ruck) out of the way to get the ball and we lose momentum and the ball!

In the build up to the Malins score we get better, lots of good aggressive clears, but again Itoje, and Farrell and George all just stand at different rucks doing little to nothing other than putting obstacles in the way of JVP.

So now 30 mins in and yeah our boys need some serious lessons of rucking and their roles and purpose. Most notably some of the more experienced heads.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Next ten minutes offer a similar view. We effect some cracking clear outs, Curry in particular again, which gives us lovely clean ball and great ruck speed and then we kill our own momentum, Itoje again by just standing at a ruck doing nothing other than getting his legs in the way of the ball. Scotland aren’t competing much. Once on OHCs where the first clearer is Smith vs. two Scots. He should do better but a talk ask, and then Ritchie competes a few mins later cause we don’t clear through again despite throwing like 5 players into the ruck against two Scots.

A stark contrast is Scotland close to our line. Even though it’s forwards against forwards they are still clearing beyond the ball. They are winning the shoulders at the ruck almost every time.

One minute later and Itoje is at it again which another awful clear out. A few seconds after JVP has to shove Sinkler (who should be clearing the ruck) out of the way to get the ball and we lose momentum and the ball!

In the build up to the Malins score we get better, lots of good aggressive clears, but again Itoje, and Farrell and George all just stand at different rucks doing little to nothing other than putting obstacles in the way of JVP.

So now 30 mins in and yeah our boys need some serious lessons of rucking and their roles and purpose. Most notably some of the more experienced heads.

End of the first half now and Itoje’s been at it twice more!! In fact he’s been pretty poor all round. He’s made tackles, and a couple of decent carries into traffic but little else. Chessum has been head and shoulders better. Curry too has had a good first half. He’s missed a couple of tackles but seeems to have the role of rushing to put pressure on, which will always result in some missed. He’s breakdown work on our ball has been excellent. Little to attack on theirs as their game is geared towards clearing the ball for the SH which negates the compete. I think I counted four rucks all half where we had a chance to compete, and we won penalties at two of them!

[Banquo]

Really enjoyed that. Of course Scotland weren’t good at all they were only allowed to be slightly less terrible than England because they were off their game and the ref was bent.

Thought bar the last penalty the ref had a good game.

Scotland didn't have to work hard enough for some of those scores for me. A lot of what Scotland did was pretty good but thought we had enough possession and territory to win that if we were more clinical.

England midfield and backrow continue to be the main areas of concern.

was going to add that the scots score were really soft defending, even the 'try of the century' or whatever bilge Hastings was bilging.

We had a significant edge in possession and territory and from 20-12 up should not have been in bother tbh.

[Banquo]

Agree on most points. We made some really silly mistakes which hopefully can be fixed quite easily. We also did some promising things in attack.

I think we need to just see how we progress across the tournament as we get players back to fitness etc.

exactly the same silly mistakes we've been making for 3+ years though. I blame Faz

[Banquo]

Next ten minutes offer a similar view. We effect some cracking clear outs, Curry in particular again, which gives us lovely clean ball and great ruck speed and then we kill our own momentum, Itoje again by just standing at a ruck doing nothing other than getting his legs in the way of the ball. Scotland aren’t competing much. Once on OHCs where the first clearer is Smith vs. two Scots. He should do better but a talk ask, and then Ritchie competes a few mins later cause we don’t clear through again despite throwing like 5 players into the ruck against two Scots.

A stark contrast is Scotland close to our line. Even though it’s forwards against forwards they are still clearing beyond the ball. They are winning the shoulders at the ruck almost every time.

One minute later and Itoje is at it again which another awful clear out. A few seconds after JVP has to shove Sinkler (who should be clearing the ruck) out of the way to get the ball and we lose momentum and the ball!

So now 30 mins in and yeah our boys need some serious lessons of rucking and their roles and purpose.

so what's new?

[Mellsblue]

It was a good call, there was no winger and loads of space. Marchant in the winger position doesn't anticipate it so when the bounce doesn't go his way Hogg has all day to let it run. If there's a chase there then suddenly it's an incredible kick.

Smith trying for the corner then Vs three Scots, that was brainlessly optimistic.

Up to JVP to understand if people are in the correct place for the kick chase.
Very happy for Smith to attack the line as when he sees fit… it’s not always about what happens in that particular phase.

That particular phase was the one where Smith ran into three Scottish tacklers and got bundled into touch. It wasn't on and a more experienced flyhalf would have scrapped the idea of going blind and looked to reset.

England did lack patience in attack.

Yep, I know which one it was.
Fkyhalfs will make mistakes if they’re being positive and I want Smith to positive and will accept the mistakes that come with it. My other point, which you seem to have missed, is that looking at one phase in isolation sometimes gives you the wrong answer. Sometimes it can just be probing a potential weakness or setting up a later move/play.

[Which Tyler]

That particular phase was the one where Smith ran into three Scottish tacklers and got bundled into touch. It wasn't on and a more experienced flyhalf would have scrapped the idea of going blind and looked to reset.

Agreed, FH's job is to be thinking 3-4 phases ahead.
Smith demanded the ball to create a 2 on 4. Being bundled into touch and giving Scotland an easy clearance was about the best that could be expected from that call.
He wasn't thinking multiple phases ahead. He wasn't thinking of that particular phase. He wasn't putting doubt into Scottish minds to "keep them honest" for next time.
He was standing on the wrong side, and demanded the ball anyway, whereas a simple head-count, and he'd have directed the play to the other side, where there's a good chance there'd be an overlap, even if he can't see it himself.

I'm not going to castigate him for it - I like a bit of derring-do, but it was the wrong call that was only ever going to give Scotland the ball, whilst we were pressing in their 22 and should be a bit more careful about keeping the damned thing.

Watching again and in the first ten mins, where we play pretty well, there is a glaring difference in ruck clearance and ball presentations. ... Curry on the other hand clears through and JVP can just move the ball without any hindrance.

Next ten minutes offer a similar view. We effect some cracking clear outs, Curry in particular again, which gives us lovely clean ball and great ruck speed and then we kill our own momentum...

Sounds like my live impression was overly harsh on Curry.
Mind, I often change my opinion with a re-watch a couple of days later.

[Epaminondas Pules]

One minute later and Itoje is at it again which another awful clear out. A few seconds after JVP has to shove Sinkler (who should be clearing the ruck) out of the way to get the ball and we lose momentum and the ball!

So now 30 mins in and yeah our boys need some serious lessons of rucking and their roles and purpose.

so what's new?

Well, indeed. And it’s not something that’s affected by new structures either.

[Stom]

That particular phase was the one where Smith ran into three Scottish tacklers and got bundled into touch. It wasn't on and a more experienced flyhalf would have scrapped the idea of going blind and looked to reset.

Agreed, FH's job is to be thinking 3-4 phases ahead.
Smith demanded the ball to create a 2 on 4. Being bundled into touch and giving Scotland an easy clearance was about the best that could be expected from that call.
He wasn't thinking multiple phases ahead. He wasn't thinking of that particular phase. He wasn't putting doubt into Scottish minds to "keep them honest" for next time.
He was standing on the wrong side, and demanded the ball anyway, whereas a simple head-count, and he'd have directed the play to the other side, where there's a good chance there'd be an overlap, even if he can't see it himself.

I'm not going to castigate him for it - I like a bit of derring-do, but it was the wrong call that was only ever going to give Scotland the ball, whilst we were pressing in their 22 and should be a bit more careful about keeping the damned thing.

Watching again and in the first ten mins, where we play pretty well, there is a glaring difference in ruck clearance and ball presentations. ... Curry on the other hand clears through and JVP can just move the ball without any hindrance.

Next ten minutes offer a similar view. We effect some cracking clear outs, Curry in particular again, which gives us lovely clean ball and great ruck speed and then we kill our own momentum...

Sounds like my live impression was overly harsh on Curry.
Mind, I often change my opinion with a re-watch a couple of days later.

I felt that smith got really frustrated a few times and took poor decisions that would come off for Quins but don’t against an international defense.

He’ll learn if we take the handbrake off.

I fear we’ll have to wait until after the World Cup for that.

[FKAS]

Up to JVP to understand if people are in the correct place for the kick chase.
Very happy for Smith to attack the line as when he sees fit… it’s not always about what happens in that particular phase.

That particular phase was the one where Smith ran into three Scottish tacklers and got bundled into touch. It wasn't on and a more experienced flyhalf would have scrapped the idea of going blind and looked to reset.

England did lack patience in attack.

Yep, I know which one it was.
Fkyhalfs will make mistakes if they’re being positive and I want Smith to positive and will accept the mistakes that come with it. My other point, which you seem to have missed, is that looking at one phase in isolation sometimes gives you the wrong answer. Sometimes it can just be probing a potential weakness or setting up a later move/play.

I appreciate that it's a game of chess for a flyhalf but my comment was in relation to one phase which he made a complete dogs dinner of. Not the end of the world he did other things well but he needs to mature at this level. Better teams than Scotland won't give him that many chances to be wasteful with.

[Mellsblue]

That particular phase was the one where Smith ran into three Scottish tacklers and got bundled into touch. It wasn't on and a more experienced flyhalf would have scrapped the idea of going blind and looked to reset.

England did lack patience in attack.

Yep, I know which one it was.
Fkyhalfs will make mistakes if they’re being positive and I want Smith to positive and will accept the mistakes that come with it. My other point, which you seem to have missed, is that looking at one phase in isolation sometimes gives you the wrong answer. Sometimes it can just be probing a potential weakness or setting up a later move/play.

I appreciate that it's a game of chess for a flyhalf but my comment was in relation to one phase which he made a complete dogs dinner of. Not the end of the world he did other things well but he needs to mature at this level. Better teams than Scotland won't give him that many chances to be wasteful with.

All true but you can’t/shouldn’t comment on actions in attack in a vacuum.

[FKAS]

Yep, I know which one it was.
Fkyhalfs will make mistakes if they’re being positive and I want Smith to positive and will accept the mistakes that come with it. My other point, which you seem to have missed, is that looking at one phase in isolation sometimes gives you the wrong answer. Sometimes it can just be probing a potential weakness or setting up a later move/play.

I appreciate that it's a game of chess for a flyhalf but my comment was in relation to one phase which he made a complete dogs dinner of. Not the end of the world he did other things well but he needs to mature at this level. Better teams than Scotland won't give him that many chances to be wasteful with.

All true but you can’t/shouldn’t comment on actions in attack in a vacuum.

Well my original comment was way back as it happened so in the context of the game then yes it made sense.

It is also a useful instance to highlight an overall issue with Smith and the difference for how he can play in the Prem compared to what he needs to do at international level.

[Mellsblue]

I appreciate that it's a game of chess for a flyhalf but my comment was in relation to one phase which he made a complete dogs dinner of. Not the end of the world he did other things well but he needs to mature at this level. Better teams than Scotland won't give him that many chances to be wasteful with.

All true but you can’t/shouldn’t comment on actions in attack in a vacuum.

Well my original comment was way back as it happened so in the context of the game then yes it made sense.

It is also a useful instance to highlight an overall issue with Smith and the difference for how he can play in the Prem compared to what he needs to do at international level.

I think he can play in test matches as he does in the Prem. It won’t always go right but it’ll lift the team performance 9 times out of 10. See Finn Russell.

[Banquo]

That particular phase was the one where Smith ran into three Scottish tacklers and got bundled into touch. It wasn't on and a more experienced flyhalf would have scrapped the idea of going blind and looked to reset.

Agreed, FH's job is to be thinking 3-4 phases ahead.
Smith demanded the ball to create a 2 on 4. Being bundled into touch and giving Scotland an easy clearance was about the best that could be expected from that call.
He wasn't thinking multiple phases ahead. He wasn't thinking of that particular phase. He wasn't putting doubt into Scottish minds to "keep them honest" for next time.
He was standing on the wrong side, and demanded the ball anyway, whereas a simple head-count, and he'd have directed the play to the other side, where there's a good chance there'd be an overlap, even if he can't see it himself.

I'm not going to castigate him for it - I like a bit of derring-do, but it was the wrong call that was only ever going to give Scotland the ball, whilst we were pressing in their 22 and should be a bit more careful about keeping the damned thing.

Next ten minutes offer a similar view. We effect some cracking clear outs, Curry in particular again, which gives us lovely clean ball and great ruck speed and then we kill our own momentum...

Sounds like my live impression was overly harsh on Curry.
Mind, I often change my opinion with a re-watch a couple of days later.

I felt that smith got really frustrated a few times and took poor decisions that would come off for Quins but don’t against an international defense.

He’ll learn if we take the handbrake off.

I fear we’ll have to wait until after the World Cup for that.

Can I ask what taking the handbrake off means to you? and what personnel that would need. Genuinely not being ar5ey for a change

[Banquo]

All true but you can’t/shouldn’t comment on actions in attack in a vacuum.

Well my original comment was way back as it happened so in the context of the game then yes it made sense.

It is also a useful instance to highlight an overall issue with Smith and the difference for how he can play in the Prem compared to what he needs to do at international level.

I think he can play in test matches as he does in the Prem. It won’t always go right but it’ll lift the team performance 9 times out of 10. See Finn Russell.

Given he was mostly playing as a second 5/8th for the last hour of the game, or as a secondary receiver, its very hard to judge- as I don't think he does that in the prem. Whilst you shouldn't have to select players to enable him to play his best, you shouldn't pick ones that actively hamper him!

[Mellsblue]

Well my original comment was way back as it happened so in the context of the game then yes it made sense.

It is also a useful instance to highlight an overall issue with Smith and the difference for how he can play in the Prem compared to what he needs to do at international level.

I think he can play in test matches as he does in the Prem. It won’t always go right but it’ll lift the team performance 9 times out of 10. See Finn Russell.

Given he was mostly playing as a second 5/8th for the last hour of the game, or as a secondary receiver, its very hard to judge- as I don't think he does that in the prem. Whilst you shouldn't have to select players to enable him to play his best, you shouldn't pick ones that actively hamper him!

Yarp.

[twitchy]

[p/d]

Slick, playmakers etc …… it still took a mighty fine kick and timing from Maxi-boi to finish it.

I thought the Genge try was the pick of what can be done.

[Banquo]

Slick, playmakers etc …… it still took a mighty fine kick and timing from Maxi-boi to finish it.

I thought the Genge try was the pick of what can be done.

the second Malins try? not a kick. Well worked phase play, resulting in a two on one with Ludlam (I think) delivering the scoring pass for minimax to walk over. (its the one actually shown in the article ...)

[Danno]

Agreed, FH's job is to be thinking 3-4 phases ahead.
Smith demanded the ball to create a 2 on 4. Being bundled into touch and giving Scotland an easy clearance was about the best that could be expected from that call.
He wasn't thinking multiple phases ahead. He wasn't thinking of that particular phase. He wasn't putting doubt into Scottish minds to "keep them honest" for next time.
He was standing on the wrong side, and demanded the ball anyway, whereas a simple head-count, and he'd have directed the play to the other side, where there's a good chance there'd be an overlap, even if he can't see it himself.

I'm not going to castigate him for it - I like a bit of derring-do, but it was the wrong call that was only ever going to give Scotland the ball, whilst we were pressing in their 22 and should be a bit more careful about keeping the damned thing.



Sounds like my live impression was overly harsh on Curry.
Mind, I often change my opinion with a re-watch a couple of days later.

I felt that smith got really frustrated a few times and took poor decisions that would come off for Quins but don’t against an international defense.

He’ll learn if we take the handbrake off.

I fear we’ll have to wait until after the World Cup for that.

Can I ask what taking the handbrake off means to you?

He was dressed for halloween from about an hour into the match yesterday

[Timbo]

Best game Sinckler has had in a long while. Usual good hands, but also mixed it up physically & hit hard in defence. Needs to keep it up. Scrum improved but not dominant.

Cole didn’t seem to do an awful lot when he came on, but there was one scrum where he absolutely melted their loosehead. Shame in a way that there weren’t more scrums after he came on, as I suspect we’d have won some easy penalties.

Lineout was a bit rubbish. Borthers will be all over that.

[Timbo]

Watching again and in the first ten mins, where we play pretty well, there is a glaring difference in ruck clearance and ball presentations. Scotland clear past the ball giving White really clear ball to just get moving on attack, whilst we’re very inconsistent. Ludlum and Itoje both guilty of just meeting their opponent and losing the shoulders so JVP has to dig. Curry on the other hand clears through and JVP can just move the ball without any hindrance.

Our overall ball security in phase play was vastly improved, though. We only got turned over at the ruck once in phase play & it never really felt like our carriers were isolated. Given where we were in the Autumn (& for much of the last 2 years) that’s coaching, structures & selection. Can be vastly improved but it’s a step forward.