Team for Italy

[FKAS]

Ah FFS just realised we've got an entire day more of this as the team isn't announced until 3 tomorrow. Shouldn't be allowed to be that late.

[Mikey Brown]

I'm amazed they've played together at centre 4 times already, though I think they have interchanged who is at 12 in some of those? I just hate this continued trend of chopping, changing and inconsistent selection. Lawrence is worth only 4 minutes off the bench last week, but now a starter. Marchant is worth a go outside Farrell, but not someone who can play 12 or at least provide a bit of go forward.

At least we're not going to the polar opposite end and putting Lawrence outside Farrell and Tuilagi, but these feel like exactly the sort of Jones-esque selections that leave you still wondering 'what if?' about most of the options by the end of the tournament. Hopefully that's just me being pessimistic.

It might be a great combo, shame we'll only see it for 55 minutes until we shuffle Farrell/Smith in to 12 again, because... you know.

[Banquo]

I would settle for a Manu-Slade midfield for sure.

Have you seen Manu play this season?

btf is my only criterion at 12.

[p/d]

Marchant was only in because Slade was injured. Not sure what he would bring to the 12 channel. Lawrence, to me, just seems obvious.

[Banquo]

Marchant was only in because Slade was injured. Not sure what he would bring to the 12 channel. Lawrence, to me, just seems obvious.

Obvious if he'd had any serious game time there. Slade hasn't either mind.

[Oakboy]

Marchant was only in because Slade was injured. Not sure what he would bring to the 12 channel. Lawrence, to me, just seems obvious.

Assuming that SB and his coaching crew have been able to satisfactorily compare him with the alternatives in the training camp you'd have thought so.

[p/d]

Marchant was only in because Slade was injured. Not sure what he would bring to the 12 channel. Lawrence, to me, just seems obvious.

Obvious if he'd had any serious game time there. Slade hasn't either mind.

Obvious as between Law & March ….. I’m a little bit in the Jones camp ref Marchant

I feel dirty

[Puja]

Ah, well. All I want is for England to pick the cavalier over the roundhead at 10 at some point during my lifetime. I can wait.
I can live with Earl, Mitchell, Smith & Arundell coming on with 20/25/30 mins, albeit with Mr Undroppable No Matter How Crap He Plays (MUNMHCHP) at 12. Finishers in all but name…
Does any other test team use the plan of bringing their best attacking players on in the last quarter?

Frankly, the best argument that I can come up with for keeping the "Only players playing in the Prem are eligible for England" rule going is the hope that at some point Farrell will move to France and put us out of our misery.

I'm just thrilled that Smith/Farrell/Slade is not being considered - that would've finished me off. I defended Smith/Farrell as being worth another go before the Scotland game, but I will admit that I was definitely wrong. While I haven't finished the minute-by-minute, the periods where Smith is at 10 are few and far between. Far too often, we've got Farrell playing 10 and Smith is just floating around, looking lost and ineffective like a second coming of Sam Burgess. It *could* work if Farrell was kept solidly at 12, but it just doesn't ever seem to end up that way and, if we're going to have Farrell at 10 regardless of where we pick him, we may as well give him the actual shirt and pick a seventh back rather than having SecondFiddleSmith go AWOL.

Puja

[jngf]

Genge
Mako
George
Walker
Dunn
Sinckler
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Ribbans
Isiekwe
Ludlam
Willis
Earl
Dombrandt

Puja

Dan Cole at open side is pretty punchy.

Itoje at 8?! Gods that brings back memories.

Puja

Macbeth

[jngf]

Feel a bit for Curry. Youngs omission is overdue.

The backline could still throw up any number of alternative selections.

Is hard for B Curry , I think he needed to bring more of his linking game to mix and not try to opt for the big carries. He also is going to be inevitably compared with his twin even though they bring slightly different things to the party imo

[jngf]

Freeman at 12 eventually? Saw some online commentary on the idea. Size, handling; runs a good line and a good inside defender.

Was that the one which said that, if Earl and Simmonds had been from countries that teach forwards to handle, they'd potentially both be 12s?

I think that sounds like a long overdue experiment!

[Banquo]

Marchant was only in because Slade was injured. Not sure what he would bring to the 12 channel. Lawrence, to me, just seems obvious.

Obvious if he'd had any serious game time there. Slade hasn't either mind.

Obvious as between Law & March ….. I’m a little bit in the Jones camp ref Marchant

I feel dirty

ah I had a parsing fail apols...

[Tom Moore]

Freeman at 12 eventually? Saw some online commentary on the idea. Size, handling; runs a good line and a good inside defender.

Was that the one which said that, if Earl and Simmonds had been from countries that teach forwards to handle, they'd potentially both be 12s?

I think that sounds like a long overdue experiment!

Think it's too late for those two, potentially, but it's an area that I'd look to target for recruitment and development because, other than a consistently world class scrum half, the one thing we've conspicuously lacked over the last 15 years is a powerful and explosive 12 who can also play rugby. Strikes me as odd because English rugby league (for all its failings, and they are numerous) have produced several players who are big, powerful, quick and can pass.

[Scrumhead]

True … and not just League. We’re producing players who seem to have the right physical attributes and skillset, but they’re playing in different positions.

I wouldn’t mind betting that there are some players who were backs who have been re-directed to the forwards mainly because they were big and ended up not making it because they weren’t really cut out for their new role or simply didn’t enjoy it.

I’m surprised Exeter never tried Simmonds at centre. At one stage he spent so much time in the back line that it felt the only time he was a forward was for scrums or if they were within 5m of the try.

[FKAS]

I mean the England age grade system did bring through Johnny Williams and Nick Tompkins. After they'd both played for England vs the Baabaas they suddenly remembered they were really Welsh deep down though.

Big age grade centres have tended to previously rely on being big. I was both surprised and impressed that Ma'asi White had worked on his skillset so much for the England under 20s. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come.

[pompey-zebra]

Chris Jones on radio 4 this morning saying he expects Farrell to be selected at 10 with Marcus Smith on the bench.

[Oakboy]

DT has Slade at 12 with Lawrence at 13. Back three survives with Arundel on bench. Willis starting for Curry as only forwards change.

[Beasties]

I’ll wait til the actual team announcement before I finally get to crack open the bottle of Babycham with Jack Willis’ name on it.

[Banquo]

DT has Slade at 12 with Lawrence at 13. Back three survives with Arundel on bench. Willis starting for Curry as only forwards change.

I'm not averse to any of that, assuming that Slade and Lawrence mix it up especially in attack- ie we do occasionally look to actually get over the tackle line from 12....

Bench clearly needs a significant change, some is intrinsic (at 9).

[fivepointer]

DT has Slade at 12 with Lawrence at 13. Back three survives with Arundel on bench. Willis starting for Curry as only forwards change.

That works for me. Might be the best centre combo we can put out.

Be very pleased to see Willis getting a start. He's earned it.

[rjjb]

Putative bench backs are somewhat one-dimensional though.

[Oakboy]

Putative bench backs are somewhat one-dimensional though.

Not sure I see that. Smith somewhat contrasting with Farrell. Arundel an explosive impact. Mitchell tidier than JVP.

[rjjb]

Putative bench backs are somewhat one-dimensional though.

Not sure I see that. Smith somewhat contrasting with Farrell. Arundel an explosive impact. Mitchell tidier than JVP.

They're all attacking players though. If England have a lead going into the last 10/15/20 minutes, but Italy are coming back at them, are that trio likely to shore up the defensive line?

[Banquo]

Putative bench backs are somewhat one-dimensional though.

Not sure I see that. Smith somewhat contrasting with Farrell. Arundel an explosive impact. Mitchell tidier than JVP.

how is Mitchell tidier than JVP out of interest? I'd say the other way round if anything. Mitchell is a bit more impulsive for me.

[Oakboy]

Putative bench backs are somewhat one-dimensional though.

Not sure I see that. Smith somewhat contrasting with Farrell. Arundel an explosive impact. Mitchell tidier than JVP.

how is Mitchell tidier than JVP out of interest? I'd say the other way round if anything. Mitchell is a bit more impulsive for me.

I would not argue the point. I meant it as in 'less ambitious' really. Mitchell might be more impulsive at club level but he seems more restricted for England. It depends who he is with at FH perhaps.