Tidier? Maybe not sure that's how I'd describe Mitchell. If he's on it then he's probably a better scrum half particularly if we want to play attacking rugby. If he's not on it then he'll be anonymous or error strewn. At least he's sorted out his discipline from last season (four yellow cards). I'm 50/50 on whether he'll make it at international level. His 13 minutes so far in white won't have told us anything.
Team for Italy
Moderator: Puja
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Re: Team for Italy
- Oakboy
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Re: Team for Italy
Ah, I see what you mean. Oddly, I've never thought of picking bench backs to go negative. I assume any pro player to be fit enough to do 80 minutes so I'd always pick bench backs to add attacking elements. It seems more logical to look to score points when behind rather than to eke out the existing score when ahead.
- Mellsblue
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Re: Team for Italy
What happens if we’re down by ten and spluttering? You can’t cover all eventualities with eight players.
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Re: Team for Italy
Indeed you can't, but I'd rather give my most potent attacking weapons as much opportunity as possible to impact the match, rather than assume they'll have the chance to do something at the fag end of the game.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:17 amWhat happens if we’re down by ten and spluttering? You can’t cover all eventualities with eight players.
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Re: Team for Italy
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Re: Team for Italy
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 7:46 am Chris Jones on radio 4 this morning saying he expects Farrell to be selected at 10 with Marcus Smith on the bench.

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Re: Team for Italy
Mitchell has only had one brief appearance off the bench for England- he's a very ambitious 9, to the point of being overly so. JVP is a much more orthodox 9 for me.Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:10 amI would not argue the point. I meant it as in 'less ambitious' really. Mitchell might be more impulsive at club level but he seems more restricted for England. It depends who he is with at FH perhaps.
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Re: Team for Italy
Faz is an ideal bench player. Preferably for Wales.Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:16 amAh, I see what you mean. Oddly, I've never thought of picking bench backs to go negative. I assume any pro player to be fit enough to do 80 minutes so I'd always pick bench backs to add attacking elements. It seems more logical to look to score points when behind rather than to eke out the existing score when ahead.
(he is the sort of guy you'd want coming on with an 8 point lead- brings the control from 10 and a load of energy (if poorly directed sometimes))
- Puja
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Re: Team for Italy
If those most potent attacking weapons are inexperienced and prone to the odd mistake though? I'd rather have Mitchell off the bench so we can bring him on if we need a boost and limit his involvement if it's tight and needs control. Arundell's in a similarish boat given his inexperience, although he does seem to've taken to the big stage like a duck to water.rjjb wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:22 amIndeed you can't, but I'd rather give my most potent attacking weapons as much opportunity as possible to impact the match, rather than assume they'll have the chance to do something at the fag end of the game.
Puja
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- Mellsblue
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Re: Team for Italy
Agreed, and said just as much earlier on the start of my fall in to a Bortho induced depression.rjjb wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:22 amIndeed you can't, but I'd rather give my most potent attacking weapons as much opportunity as possible to impact the match, rather than assume they'll have the chance to do something at the fag end of the game.
- Mellsblue
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Re: Team for Italy
I agree on principle but does 10/15 mins give him enough time to miss two pens and then iceman over the third to win us the match?Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:29 amFaz is an ideal bench player. Preferably for Wales.Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:16 amAh, I see what you mean. Oddly, I've never thought of picking bench backs to go negative. I assume any pro player to be fit enough to do 80 minutes so I'd always pick bench backs to add attacking elements. It seems more logical to look to score points when behind rather than to eke out the existing score when ahead.
(he is the sort of guy you'd want coming on with an 8 point lead- brings the control from 10 and a load of energy (if poorly directed sometimes))
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Re: Team for Italy
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:02 amI agree on principle but does 10/15 mins give him enough time to miss two pens and then iceman over the third to win us the match?Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:29 amFaz is an ideal bench player. Preferably for Wales.Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:16 am
Ah, I see what you mean. Oddly, I've never thought of picking bench backs to go negative. I assume any pro player to be fit enough to do 80 minutes so I'd always pick bench backs to add attacking elements. It seems more logical to look to score points when behind rather than to eke out the existing score when ahead.
(he is the sort of guy you'd want coming on with an 8 point lead- brings the control from 10 and a load of energy (if poorly directed sometimes))



obviously I want him nowhere near the team

Currently foolishly on a twitter row re faz- trying to say he's crap when so many players and coaches rave over him is a tough fight

- Puja
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Re: Team for Italy
Link to my minute-by-minute - should be taken as a definitive source.Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:05 am![]()
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obviously I want him nowhere near the team
Currently foolishly on a twitter row re faz- trying to say he's crap when so many players and coaches rave over him is a tough fight![]()
Puja
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Re: Team for Italy
The longer you're on the pitch, the more time you have to redeem yourself for any mistakes.Puja wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:42 amIf those most potent attacking weapons are inexperienced and prone to the odd mistake though? I'd rather have Mitchell off the bench so we can bring him on if we need a boost and limit his involvement if it's tight and needs control. Arundell's in a similarish boat given his inexperience, although he does seem to've taken to the big stage like a duck to water.
Puja
- Mellsblue
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Re: Team for Italy
Not if Puja has a tally running.rjjb wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:06 amThe longer you're on the pitch, the more time you have to redeem yourself for any mistakes.Puja wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:42 amIf those most potent attacking weapons are inexperienced and prone to the odd mistake though? I'd rather have Mitchell off the bench so we can bring him on if we need a boost and limit his involvement if it's tight and needs control. Arundell's in a similarish boat given his inexperience, although he does seem to've taken to the big stage like a duck to water.
Puja
- Puja
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Re: Team for Italy
But also the more mistakes you can make. I'm going to talk just about Mitchell and JVP here, as Smith is better than Farrell and Arundell vs OHC/Malins has many complicating factors. Mitchell is probably a more exciting attacker than JVP, however he's not as good a player overall. I'd rather have my best player on the pitch to have as much opportunity to impact the match, with an attacking option on the bench to spice things up.rjjb wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:06 amThe longer you're on the pitch, the more time you have to redeem yourself for any mistakes.Puja wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:42 amIf those most potent attacking weapons are inexperienced and prone to the odd mistake though? I'd rather have Mitchell off the bench so we can bring him on if we need a boost and limit his involvement if it's tight and needs control. Arundell's in a similarish boat given his inexperience, although he does seem to've taken to the big stage like a duck to water.
Puja
If my best player *is* my most exciting player, then result (cf. MSmith (while Ford's still returning from injury))! But "most potent attacking weapon" often comes with some fairly hefty drawbacks and we can't just pick a team of nothing but and hope the combination makes magic.
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Re: Team for Italy
Ruck.co.uk (yes I know) confidently predicting Farrell at 10, no start for Arundell but Willis at 7
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Re: Team for Italy
just confirmed by DT, Smith on bench.
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Re: Team for Italy
Has Slade ever played 12 with Farrell or only filled in there in Faz’s absence? Will be very interesting to see how he is used.
A few guys like VRR, Murley, Freeman that I feel for but fairly happy with how this side is looking.
I’d be even happier if Farrell doing 80 is actually dependent on his performance in some way, but let’s not get carried away.
A few guys like VRR, Murley, Freeman that I feel for but fairly happy with how this side is looking.
I’d be even happier if Farrell doing 80 is actually dependent on his performance in some way, but let’s not get carried away.
- Puja
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Re: Team for Italy
I will note that the team announcement isn't until 3pm, so while it's very likely to be the case considering the amount of leaks, "confirmed" is a pretty strong word.
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- morepork
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Re: Team for Italy
England XV 15. Freddie Steward; 14. Max Malins 13. Henry Slade 12. Ollie Lawrence 11. Ollie Hassell-Collins; 10. Owen Farrell (Captain) 9. Jack van Poortvliet; 1. Ellis Genge 2. Jamie George 3. Kyle Sinckler 4. Maro Itoje 5. Ollie Chessum 6. Lewis Ludlam 7. Jack Willis 8. Alex Dombrandt.
Replacements 16. Jack Walker 17. Mako Vunipola 18. Dan Cole 19. Nick Isiekwe 20. Ben Earl 21. Alex Mitchell 22. Marcus Smith 23. Henry Arundell.
Replacements 16. Jack Walker 17. Mako Vunipola 18. Dan Cole 19. Nick Isiekwe 20. Ben Earl 21. Alex Mitchell 22. Marcus Smith 23. Henry Arundell.
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Re: Team for Italy
I hope we're in a position to give Walker, Isiekwe and Mitchell enough time that we can really judge them, and that centre pairing as many minutes as possible. Interesting it wasn't Slade at 12 after all.
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Re: Team for Italy
Decent side. There was some good stuff last weekend but the midfield was a serious issue. Jack Willis finally getting another start (just his second?) looking forward to seeing what he can do.
Isiekwe is a lucky boy to still be making the bench, as is Mako.
Isiekwe is a lucky boy to still be making the bench, as is Mako.