fivepointer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:31 am
Fabulous match. Great entertainment for the neutral. Huge credit to Quins for scoring that try at the end to get another BP.
Seb Atkinson looks like a real talent. If he carries on like this a call up to the WC training squad cannot be discounted. Also thought the young hooker had an excellent game. As did VRR - inevitably. LRZ is ridiculously fast. On a couple of his runs he was making quick men look like plodders.
Yeah. From a Quins POV, a 5th straight loss is disappointing … but OTOH, I thought the performance was a step up in intensity and we weren’t too far off taking that.
I was pleased with the attitude to secure the BPs. A few weeks back, we wouldn’t have got anything from that game.
The lineout is such an Achilles heel for us though. It’s barely functional and is costing us game after game.
fivepointer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:31 am
Fabulous match. Great entertainment for the neutral. Huge credit to Quins for scoring that try at the end to get another BP.
Seb Atkinson looks like a real talent. If he carries on like this a call up to the WC training squad cannot be discounted. Also thought the young hooker had an excellent game. As did VRR - inevitably. LRZ is ridiculously fast. On a couple of his runs he was making quick men look like plodders.
Yeah. From a Quins POV, a 5th straight loss is disappointing … but OTOH, I thought the performance was a step up in intensity and we weren’t too far off taking that.
I was pleased with the attitude to secure the BPs. A few weeks back, we wouldn’t have got anything from that game.
The lineout is such an Achilles heel for us though. It’s barely functional and is costing us game after game.
Looked good with the ball, but tackle stats a bit worrying and as you say lineout is a bit iffy, and got worse when Riley came on unfortunately. Esterhuizen is so important, so wish he was English
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:37 am
Atkinson looked excellent in his run of games for Wuss last season. Overall he’s only played 20 first team games with ten of those being prem. A few little mistakes here and there in that game, but a huge amount of positives. When he got game time for Wuss he came on leaps and bounds. Same now with Glaws.
Though the score line suggested otherwise (and he got a yellow card - still not sure for what) I thought he was excellent v Leinster. Definitely strong in defence
Beasties wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:13 pm
Impressive display from the lad. Imagine an Eng midfield with reliability and ability at 12.
Imagine England having two actual inside centre options of good quality for the next decade....
That's not including Lawrence who looked more than handy there last time out.
Sorry for the silly question: who’s the other one then, if not Lawrence? Presume you mean Kelly?
Yeah Kelly and Seb Atkinson the young pretenders to the 12 shirt. Had Kelly not gone down injured before the Scotland game he might be the incumbent already.
Key point here is that England has a potential backline with great talent and an average age of 21 or 22. If (big if) properly managed, that is a decade of future quality.
In contrast, Ireland and Scotland are relying on 30+ aged players (Sexton, Murray, Russell, Hogg, etc.) who are nearing retirement. So those sides will be rebuilding as England's backline is (hopefully) settled and improving further.
stepsider wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:38 pm
Key point here is that England has a potential backline with great talent and an average age of 21 or 22. If (big if) properly managed, that is a decade of future quality.
In contrast, Ireland and Scotland are relying on 30+ aged players (Sexton, Murray, Russell, Hogg, etc.) who are nearing retirement. So those sides will be rebuilding as England's backline is (hopefully) settled and improving further.
9. JVP, Quirke, Mitchell
10. M Smith, F Smith
11. Radwan, OHC, Cokanasiga
12. Kelly, Atkinson
13. Lawrence, Joseph
14. Freeman, Arundell
15. Steward, Carpenter
All 25 and under and all bar Atkinson and Carpenter have been in England squads or capped already.
stepsider wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:38 pm
Key point here is that England has a potential backline with great talent and an average age of 21 or 22. If (big if) properly managed, that is a decade of future quality.
In contrast, Ireland and Scotland are relying on 30+ aged players (Sexton, Murray, Russell, Hogg, etc.) who are nearing retirement. So those sides will be rebuilding as England's backline is (hopefully) settled and improving further.
Ireland have a very big pipeline of talent coming through, and they have the benefit of a number of settled players (Ringrose, Keenan, McLoskey, Henshaw, Lowe, Gibson Park) (and good forwards) to bring new players into. We are still figuring out the spine of our backline, with very few still sure of their place. We've always had quite a lot of young talent kicking about in fairness- though I agree not so obviously at 10/12. So I agree we can be optimistic but I wouldn't be too dismissive of Ireland.
stepsider wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:38 pm
Key point here is that England has a potential backline with great talent and an average age of 21 or 22. If (big if) properly managed, that is a decade of future quality.
In contrast, Ireland and Scotland are relying on 30+ aged players (Sexton, Murray, Russell, Hogg, etc.) who are nearing retirement. So those sides will be rebuilding as England's backline is (hopefully) settled and improving further.
9. JVP, Quirke, Mitchell
10. M Smith, F Smith
11. Radwan, OHC, Cokanasiga
12. Kelly, Atkinson
13. Lawrence, Joseph
14. Freeman, Arundell
15. Steward, Carpenter
All 25 and under and all bar Atkinson and Carpenter have been in England squads or capped already.
Yep nice list. Getting them experienced and on the pitch together is another story
stepsider wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:38 pm
Key point here is that England has a potential backline with great talent and an average age of 21 or 22. If (big if) properly managed, that is a decade of future quality.
In contrast, Ireland and Scotland are relying on 30+ aged players (Sexton, Murray, Russell, Hogg, etc.) who are nearing retirement. So those sides will be rebuilding as England's backline is (hopefully) settled and improving further.
Ireland have a very big pipeline of talent coming through, and they have the benefit of a number of settled players (Ringrose, Keenan, McLoskey, Henshaw, Lowe, Gibson Park) (and good forwards) to bring new players into. We are still figuring out the spine of our backline, with very few still sure of their place. We've always had quite a lot of young talent kicking about in fairness- though I agree not so obviously at 10/12. So I agree we can be optimistic but I wouldn't be too dismissive of Ireland.
Certainly wouldn't dismiss Ireland having lived in it for years and seen how well the system works here. But most of those settled players are currently 'preventing' new talent progressing into the first team. And as they will be near/past-30 post-WC, they're likely to depart the national side at similar times, necessitating wholesale rebuilding.
As we know from England's present experience, that can be a painful process.
stepsider wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:38 pm
Key point here is that England has a potential backline with great talent and an average age of 21 or 22. If (big if) properly managed, that is a decade of future quality.
In contrast, Ireland and Scotland are relying on 30+ aged players (Sexton, Murray, Russell, Hogg, etc.) who are nearing retirement. So those sides will be rebuilding as England's backline is (hopefully) settled and improving further.
Ireland have a very big pipeline of talent coming through, and they have the benefit of a number of settled players (Ringrose, Keenan, McLoskey, Henshaw, Lowe, Gibson Park) (and good forwards) to bring new players into. We are still figuring out the spine of our backline, with very few still sure of their place. We've always had quite a lot of young talent kicking about in fairness- though I agree not so obviously at 10/12. So I agree we can be optimistic but I wouldn't be too dismissive of Ireland.
Certainly wouldn't dismiss Ireland having lived in it for years and seen how well the system works here. But most of those settled players are currently 'preventing' new talent progressing into the first team. And as they will be near/past-30 post-WC, they're likely to depart the national side at similar times, necessitating wholesale rebuilding.
As we know from England's present experience, that can be a painful process.
Not sure Ringrose, Keenan, McLoskey are exactly preventing new talent and the former are only 28/26 respectively; Lowe probably has a couple more years in him, ditto Gibson-Park. Sexton and Murray kind of, though both are playing well. Miles easier to bring new players into a settled and good team- and in fact, bar at half back, Ireland have introduced a fair number of new players. End of a world cup cycle its pretty much what you'd expect to see, Sexton being an exceptional outlier. I'd say they are in a better position than us in terms of settled backline and opportunities to introduce.
stepsider wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:27 pm
Agree they're better placed now. Two years' time, not so sure. Another thing, maybe Farrell senior will have moved on...
Yeah its a bit hypothetical, but I'd rather have Ireland's problems than ours as it stands, though they need to find a 10 of Sexton's calibre.
stepsider wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:38 pm
Key point here is that England has a potential backline with great talent and an average age of 21 or 22. If (big if) properly managed, that is a decade of future quality.
In contrast, Ireland and Scotland are relying on 30+ aged players (Sexton, Murray, Russell, Hogg, etc.) who are nearing retirement. So those sides will be rebuilding as England's backline is (hopefully) settled and improving further.
9. JVP, Quirke, Mitchell
10. M Smith, F Smith
11. Radwan, OHC, Cokanasiga
12. Kelly, Atkinson
13. Lawrence, Joseph
14. Freeman, Arundell
15. Steward, Carpenter
All 25 and under and all bar Atkinson and Carpenter have been in England squads or capped already.
Yep nice list. Getting them experienced and on the pitch together is another story
Justice for Murley btw.
Knew I'd forgotten a winger.
Borthwick's challenge getting them up and running.
