Though few mainstream media outlets bothered to report on it, the American-led coalition killed a further 56 civilians in Syria yesterday, where it has not been invited by anyone to take part in anything.
BEIRUT (Reuters) - At least 56 civilians were killed on Tuesday in air strikes north of the besieged Islamic State-held city of Manbij in northern Syria, near the border with Turkey, a monitoring group said.
Residents believed the strikes were carried out by U.S.-led coalition planes, the British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said. It said the dead included 11 children, and dozens more people were wounded.
On Monday 21 people were killed in raids also believed to be by U.S.-led coalition planes on Manbij's northern Hazawneh quarter.
Meanwhile, Syrians certainly seem to know who is behind this war, judging by their initial reaction to the Turkey coup:
Supporters of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad celebrated on Saturday after the Turkish army said it was seizing power from President Tayyip Erdogan, while Syrian rebels said the loss of a main regional backer would be a major blow to their struggle.
The government in Damascus has accused Erdogan, who said the coup would fail, of fuelling the Syrian conflict by supporting Islamist insurgents battling Damascus and allowing foreign jihadis to cross the border from Turkey into Syria.
Hundreds of cheering people took to the streets after midnight in Damascus and volleys of celebratory gunfire erupted in several districts of the Syrian capital.
Residents said convoys of cars were processing around the Mazzeh neighborhood, with people waving flags and shouting: "God, Syria and Bashar!". There were similar celebrations in other government-held cities.
A resident in the government-held part of the northern city of Aleppo said people believed that "Erdogan's fall is an announcement of the end of the crisis in Syria, given he is the one chiefly responsible for the crisis".
Another Aleppo resident said people were chanting for Erdogan to be held to account. A witness in the Jaramana district of Damascus said the celebratory gunfire was greater even than when Assad won re-election as president two years ago.
rowan wrote:What a horrible mess the US has made of the Middle East
Whilst undoubtedly true; it would be a bit rich to throw stones we've done more than our bit to help them.
Although I'd have to query just how much sweetness and light, milk and honey there was in the middle east before we stuck our noses in.
America has done nothing but create war in the Middle East. Who are you trying to kid? It's like the British telling us how much they did for the Indians. & nobody invited either of them - that's the bottom line. As for being milk and honey, etc, it was certainly a lot better of in Ottoman times. How about somebody just comes and slaughters a few million people in America and then reminds you about all the problems beforehand...
Latest news out of the region:
At least 85 civilians, including almost a dozen children, have been killed after US air strikes targeted an area in northern Syria held by Islamic State (Isis/Daesh) fighters, a monitoring group has said.
Some eight families were reportedly wiped out in the IS-controlled village of Tokhar near Manbij on Tuesday (19 July), in what could be one of the deadliest bombings of civilians by coalition forces since the start of operations in the country.
It's not just America. Many foreign powers have had military jollies in the Middle East that have taken from the locals and set up new orders. A jolly old time was had by all in Iraq when it was carved up all those years ago, and invading Iran during WWII was just fantastic for relieving Allied monotony.
rowan wrote:America has done nothing but create war in the Middle East. Who are you trying to kid? It's like the British telling us how much they did for the Indians. & nobody invited either of them - that's the bottom line. As for being milk and honey, etc, it was certainly a lot better of in Ottoman times. How about somebody just comes and slaughters a few million people in America and then reminds you about all the problems beforehand...
Latest news out of the region:
At least 85 civilians, including almost a dozen children, have been killed after US air strikes targeted an area in northern Syria held by Islamic State (Isis/Daesh) fighters, a monitoring group has said.
Some eight families were reportedly wiped out in the IS-controlled village of Tokhar near Manbij on Tuesday (19 July), in what could be one of the deadliest bombings of civilians by coalition forces since the start of operations in the country.
rowan wrote:America has done nothing but create war in the Middle East. Who are you trying to kid? It's like the British telling us how much they did for the Indians. & nobody invited either of them - that's the bottom line. As for being milk and honey, etc, it was certainly a lot better of in Ottoman times. How about somebody just comes and slaughters a few million people in America and then reminds you about all the problems beforehand...
Latest news out of the region:
At least 85 civilians, including almost a dozen children, have been killed after US air strikes targeted an area in northern Syria held by Islamic State (Isis/Daesh) fighters, a monitoring group has said.
Some eight families were reportedly wiped out in the IS-controlled village of Tokhar near Manbij on Tuesday (19 July), in what could be one of the deadliest bombings of civilians by coalition forces since the start of operations in the country.
Ah, yes. The benign Ottoman's. Their treatment of the Armenians, Assyrians and Thracian Bulgarians, for example, was exemplary.
HOW VERY DARE YOU SIR!
You WOMD apologist.
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It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Sure, I actually agree with all the above comments. It's just that I'm more concerned with what's going on in the 21st century, and happen to be living in the Middle East. The War of Terror has claimed several million Muslim lives, and the last thing in the world that anybody wanted or needed was American dropping bombs in Syria. They weren't invited, and they are causing a great deal of carnage. That's the only point I was making. The 85 civilians butchered by their errant bombing yesterday is a tragedy that doesn't seem to find much sympathy here, but when exactly the same number of people were killed by some maniac in Nice everyone's wailing in grief and tearing their hair out over it.
Of Nice and Manbij: - jeez, was this in addition to the American attack? I guess so, since the report says Manbij itself was hit, whereas the US attack was on Tokhar, a town just out of Manbij. https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/fr ... -pictures/
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
rowan wrote:America has done nothing but create war in the Middle East. Who are you trying to kid? It's like the British telling us how much they did for the Indians. & nobody invited either of them - that's the bottom line. As for being milk and honey, etc, it was certainly a lot better of in Ottoman times. How about somebody just comes and slaughters a few million people in America and then reminds you about all the problems beforehand...
Latest news out of the region:
At least 85 civilians, including almost a dozen children, have been killed after US air strikes targeted an area in northern Syria held by Islamic State (Isis/Daesh) fighters, a monitoring group has said.
Some eight families were reportedly wiped out in the IS-controlled village of Tokhar near Manbij on Tuesday (19 July), in what could be one of the deadliest bombings of civilians by coalition forces since the start of operations in the country.
Ah, yes. The benign Ottoman's. Their treatment of the Armenians, Assyrians and Thracian Bulgarians, for example, was exemplary.
Indeed. A small point as well is the involvement of the Syrian government in Lebanon for decades. Bit hard to cry foul when your using the same tactic.
rowan wrote:America has done nothing but create war in the Middle East. Who are you trying to kid? It's like the British telling us how much they did for the Indians. & nobody invited either of them - that's the bottom line. As for being milk and honey, etc, it was certainly a lot better of in Ottoman times. How about somebody just comes and slaughters a few million people in America and then reminds you about all the problems beforehand...
Latest news out of the region:
At least 85 civilians, including almost a dozen children, have been killed after US air strikes targeted an area in northern Syria held by Islamic State (Isis/Daesh) fighters, a monitoring group has said.
Some eight families were reportedly wiped out in the IS-controlled village of Tokhar near Manbij on Tuesday (19 July), in what could be one of the deadliest bombings of civilians by coalition forces since the start of operations in the country.
Ah, yes. The benign Ottoman's. Their treatment of the Armenians, Assyrians and Thracian Bulgarians, for example, was exemplary.
Indeed. A small point as well is the involvement of the Syrian government in Lebanon for decades. Bit hard to cry foul when your using the same tactic.
Under US approval. And then they left.
But we won't talk about Israeli assaults on Lebanon will we?
You are such a hyporcrite.
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.
Lizard wrote:
Ah, yes. The benign Ottoman's. Their treatment of the Armenians, Assyrians and Thracian Bulgarians, for example, was exemplary.
Indeed. A small point as well is the involvement of the Syrian government in Lebanon for decades. Bit hard to cry foul when your using the same tactic.
Under US approval. And then they left.
But we won't talk about Israeli assaults on Lebanon will we?
You are such a hyporcrite.
Yes, there is a power struggle between Israel & Syria in Lebanon, with most of the conflicts, and certainly the most horrendous, having been instigated by the former.
Don't mention it was the French & British who deprived Syria of vital ports through the strategically advantageous creation of Lebanon either. They did the same to Iraq with the creation of Kuwait, of course...
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Sandydragon wrote:
Indeed. A small point as well is the involvement of the Syrian government in Lebanon for decades. Bit hard to cry foul when your using the same tactic.
Under US approval. And then they left.
But we won't talk about Israeli assaults on Lebanon will we?
You are such a hyporcrite.
Yes, there is a power struggle between Israel & Syria in Lebanon, with most of the conflicts, and certainly the most horrendous, having been instigated by the former.
Don't mention it was the French & British who deprived Syria of vital ports through the strategically advantageous creation of Lebanon either. They did the same to Iraq with the creation of Kuwait, of course...
No denying that the Anglo Frenc agreement on borders in the ME caused a huge rift of problems, ignoring tribal maps. But then what went before was none too organized either.
Already pointed out it was relatively peaceful in Ottoman types, if we compare it to Europe. Even the Arabs lived alongside Christian and Jewish minorities with few problems. That's not to say there weren't conflicts. But the real problems began with European imperialism and attempts to destabilize the empire long before WWI. It was in this manner that the British instigated the rise of Wahhabism in Arabia, then betrayed their WWI allies the Hashemites and basically handed the peninsula to the Sauds. We are still paying the price for this today.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
rowan wrote:Already pointed out it was relatively peaceful in Ottoman types, if we compare it to Europe. Even the Arabs lived alongside Christian and Jewish minorities with few problems. That's not to say there weren't conflicts. But the real problems began with European imperialism and attempts to destabilize the empire long before WWI. It was in this manner that the British instigated the rise of Wahhabism in Arabia, then betrayed their WWI allies the Hashemites and basically handed the peninsula to the Sauds. We are still paying the price for this today.
And, as already pointed out, that "relative" peace only lasted a couple of decades and applied to internal rather than external peace.
But OF COURSE it was white Europe's fault that the benevolent and kindly ottoman empire crumbled.
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It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
rowan wrote:Already pointed out it was relatively peaceful in Ottoman types, if we compare it to Europe. Even the Arabs lived alongside Christian and Jewish minorities with few problems. That's not to say there weren't conflicts. But the real problems began with European imperialism and attempts to destabilize the empire long before WWI. It was in this manner that the British instigated the rise of Wahhabism in Arabia, then betrayed their WWI allies the Hashemites and basically handed the peninsula to the Sauds. We are still paying the price for this today.
And, as already pointed out, that "relative" peace only lasted a couple of decades and applied to internal rather than external peace.
But OF COURSE it was white Europe's fault that the benevolent and kindly ottoman empire crumbled.
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And it appears to be OK for Turks to colonize Arab land, but not Europeans?
rowan wrote:Already pointed out it was relatively peaceful in Ottoman types, if we compare it to Europe. Even the Arabs lived alongside Christian and Jewish minorities with few problems. That's not to say there weren't conflicts. But the real problems began with European imperialism and attempts to destabilize the empire long before WWI. It was in this manner that the British instigated the rise of Wahhabism in Arabia, then betrayed their WWI allies the Hashemites and basically handed the peninsula to the Sauds. We are still paying the price for this today.
And, as already pointed out, that "relative" peace only lasted a couple of decades and applied to internal rather than external peace.
But OF COURSE it was white Europe's fault that the benevolent and kindly ottoman empire crumbled.
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And it appears to be OK for Turks to colonize Arab land, but not Europeans?
I've got to get a screenshot of that particular piece of r---t stupidity.
You don't even understand when you r-----m is r----m, do you?
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.
Donny osmond wrote:
And, as already pointed out, that "relative" peace only lasted a couple of decades and applied to internal rather than external peace.
But OF COURSE it was white Europe's fault that the benevolent and kindly ottoman empire crumbled.
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
And it appears to be OK for Turks to colonize Arab land, but not Europeans?
I've got to get a screenshot of that particular piece of r---t stupidity.
You don't even understand when you r-----m is r----m, do you?
You put in too many dashes, only 4 required for racism.
Im loving your attempt to get yourself banned, why not just leave? Seriously, if its that bad just go.
Sandydragon wrote:
You put in too many dashes, only 4 required for racism.
Im loving your attempt to get yourself banned, why not just leave? Seriously, if its that bad just go.
You see, the difference is that I don't want to ban you or even complain about you.
But of course you don't see.
Because you're as dumb as a bag of hammers.
You don't want to complain about Sandy, so you make multiple threads about him and follow him from thread to thread, complaining at him about his posts?
Donny osmond wrote:
And, as already pointed out, that "relative" peace only lasted a couple of decades and applied to internal rather than external peace.
But OF COURSE it was white Europe's fault that the benevolent and kindly ottoman empire crumbled.
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
And it appears to be OK for Turks to colonize Arab land, but not Europeans?
I've got to get a screenshot of that particular piece of r---t stupidity.
You don't even understand when you r-----m is r----m, do you?
Yes, it's amazing how everything gets twisted. My perfectly realistic comments about relative peace in the Middle East during Ottoman times - as compared with the post-Ottoman era, has been interpreted as support for the Ottoman colonization of the Middle East. But that's not the same thing. & I'm actually far more interested in what's going on in the 21st century, where we find most of the damage is not being done by the Europeans, per se, but by their American successors.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Sandydragon wrote:
And it appears to be OK for Turks to colonize Arab land, but not Europeans?
I've got to get a screenshot of that particular piece of r---t stupidity.
You don't even understand when you r-----m is r----m, do you?
Yes, it's amazing how everything gets twisted. My perfectly realistic comments about relative peace in the Middle East during Ottoman times - as compared with the post-Ottoman era, has been interpreted as support for the Ottoman colonization of the Middle East. But that's not the same thing. & I'm actually far more interested in what's going on in the 21st century, where we find most of the damage is not being done by the Europeans, per se, but by their American successors.
It hasn't been interpreted that way at all, you're just trying to paint yourself as a victim here.
If you're so interested in modern times why did you bring up the oh-so-peaceful ottoman empire then?
The reason I've been happy to pick you up on your claims isn't because I care about the ottoman empire at all. Its because it's all part of a bigger picture of you falling over yourself at every opportunity to paint white US/Europeans as the only possible aggressors and poor downtrodden Muslims as the only victims. None of the issues on these boards are binary issues, yet every thread, even where entirely unrelated, you leap in with tales of how evil the entire western hemisphere has been for all of history.
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It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
- jeez, was this in addition to the American attack? I guess so, since the report says Manbij itself was hit, whereas the US attack was on Tokhar, a town just out of Manbij. 