The Noble Lie - Revealed.

[UGagain]

From the always excellent Neil Wilson.



The Noble Lie — Revealed
It’s time to let you into a little secret.
It’s a secret about the UK that those in charge keep in plain sight, but hide with their rhetoric.
They desperately want to keep your attention on the Wizard of Oz pantomime going on in front of you.
But we’re going to look behind the curtain.
This secret is so powerful and so profound that it will alter everything that you understand about how government works and what it can do for you.
It will highlight the lies politicians tell you. And it will disappoint you when you find that those lies are told by politicians across the spectrum.
It’s a simple lie. And they are always the best.
And the lie is this — that governments can run short of money.
So what’s the truth?
The UK government owns the Bank of England and has an operational infinite overdraft with its own bank (known as the ‘Ways and Means Account’).

That means the Government’s credit card is a Super Platinum Card and nobody can tell the government what it can and can’t spend.
Running short is impossible.
And of course the interest rate is effectively zero. If you own a bank, then anything you pay to that bank as interest comes back to you as profits of the bank you own.
Now, when government spends it creates a chain of transactions that causes taxation to flow, and creates savings at the Bank of England that match the initial spending. In the ratio of about 90% tax for 10% savings. Penny for penny, each time, every time, for any positive tax rate.
The books always balance. Anybody suggesting otherwise is lying.
So that means…
That means that if there is stuff and people free in the UK economy, then the UK government can set them to work.
If there are unemployed people we can give them a job.
If there is a drop in private trade, then that creates more space for government investment, not less.
It means that austerity is a political choice.
It means that paying interest on government debt is a political choice.
It means that the political class is lying to you.
So ask yourself:
Who benefits from the unnecessary interest paid on government debt. Why do we pay £240m per week overseas unnecessarily?
Who benefits from ensuring there are always fewer jobs than people who want them?
Who benefits from threatening tax rises when none are required?
Your politicians are lying to you, from all sides. Time to ask them why. Get them to admit the truth.
But importantly hold them to account for their lies at the ballot box.
It’s time to end political careers pour encourager les autres.

[Curry Puff]

So lets see you spending less of your precious time here and see you out in the big bad world shooting a few politicians.

Show us the way.

[UGagain]

Oh FFS.

[UGagain]

I'm guessing that the only comments ny the wingnut crowd on this thread will be of that standard.

[jared_7]

Can you explain the £240m offshore per week figure? Is that reported interest payments on government "debt"? Where do they say its going?

[Digby]

Can you explain the £240m offshore per week figure? Is that reported interest payments on government "debt"? Where do they say its going?

I think it's more the whole article which needs explaining. The plot to Twin Peaks makes more sense.

[jared_7]

Can you explain the £240m offshore per week figure? Is that reported interest payments on government "debt"? Where do they say its going?

I think it's more the whole article which needs explaining. The plot to Twin Peaks makes more sense.

Not really.

[UGagain]

Can you explain the £240m offshore per week figure? Is that reported interest payments on government "debt"? Where do they say its going?

I think it's more the whole article which needs explaining. The plot to Twin Peaks makes more sense.

I guess that imaginary economics degree has reached its limits.

Where do you think pounds come from, sweet cheeks?

[UGagain]

Can you explain the £240m offshore per week figure? Is that reported interest payments on government "debt"? Where do they say its going?

That's the interest going to foreign bond holders.

[Digby]

Can you explain the £240m offshore per week figure? Is that reported interest payments on government "debt"? Where do they say its going?

I think it's more the whole article which needs explaining. The plot to Twin Peaks makes more sense.

Not really.

Now that's like Twin Peaks, in that it makes no sense.

[UGagain]

I think it's more the whole article which needs explaining. The plot to Twin Peaks makes more sense.

Not really.

Now that's like Twin Peaks, in that it makes no sense.

Where do you think money comes from?

[UGagain]

Probably a bit long and complex for Digby and the like but this is a pretty good analysis imo.


http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.n ... rrors.html

Outside the Hall of Mirrors
The outcome of last week’s vote concerning Britain’s membership in the European Union has set off anguished cries and handwaving across much of the internet and the mass media. The unexpected defeat of the pro-EU camp, though, has important lessons to offer, and not just for those of my readers who live in Britain; the core issues underlying the Brexit referendum are also massive realities in many other countries right now, and will likely play a very large role—quite probably a decisive one—in this year’s presidential race here in the United States.

[Curry Puff]

I'm guessing that the only comments ny the wingnut crowd on this thread will be of that standard.

It's all your post warranted.

[Curry Puff]

Probably a bit long and complex for Digby and the like but this is a pretty good analysis imo.


http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.n ... rrors.html

Outside the Hall of Mirrors
The outcome of last week’s vote concerning Britain’s membership in the European Union has set off anguished cries and handwaving across much of the internet and the mass media. The unexpected defeat of the pro-EU camp, though, has important lessons to offer, and not just for those of my readers who live in Britain; the core issues underlying the Brexit referendum are also massive realities in many other countries right now, and will likely play a very large role—quite probably a decisive one—in this year’s presidential race here in the United States.

From one of he responses to the above article

As someone on the internet pointed out, (I think it was either Craig Murray or Billy Bragg), all bigots will vote leave. Not all those that vote leave are bigots. Whichever of them that said that was campaigning for a Remain vote, so to characterise all those that voted for remain as you have done here is inaccurate. It seems to me that regardless of which side of the debate you're on, how you put your arguments is more about personal maturity than of your political persuasion.

Children are emotional. Adults are rational

How very true

[Sandydragon]

From the always excellent Neil Wilson.



The Noble Lie — Revealed
It’s time to let you into a little secret.
It’s a secret about the UK that those in charge keep in plain sight, but hide with their rhetoric.
They desperately want to keep your attention on the Wizard of Oz pantomime going on in front of you.
But we’re going to look behind the curtain.
This secret is so powerful and so profound that it will alter everything that you understand about how government works and what it can do for you.
It will highlight the lies politicians tell you. And it will disappoint you when you find that those lies are told by politicians across the spectrum.
It’s a simple lie. And they are always the best.
And the lie is this — that governments can run short of money.
So what’s the truth?
The UK government owns the Bank of England and has an operational infinite overdraft with its own bank (known as the ‘Ways and Means Account’).

That means the Government’s credit card is a Super Platinum Card and nobody can tell the government what it can and can’t spend.
Running short is impossible.
And of course the interest rate is effectively zero. If you own a bank, then anything you pay to that bank as interest comes back to you as profits of the bank you own.
Now, when government spends it creates a chain of transactions that causes taxation to flow, and creates savings at the Bank of England that match the initial spending. In the ratio of about 90% tax for 10% savings. Penny for penny, each time, every time, for any positive tax rate.
The books always balance. Anybody suggesting otherwise is lying.
So that means…
That means that if there is stuff and people free in the UK economy, then the UK government can set them to work.
If there are unemployed people we can give them a job.
If there is a drop in private trade, then that creates more space for government investment, not less.
It means that austerity is a political choice.
It means that paying interest on government debt is a political choice.
It means that the political class is lying to you.
So ask yourself:
Who benefits from the unnecessary interest paid on government debt. Why do we pay £240m per week overseas unnecessarily?
Who benefits from ensuring there are always fewer jobs than people who want them?
Who benefits from threatening tax rises when none are required?
Your politicians are lying to you, from all sides. Time to ask them why. Get them to admit the truth.
But importantly hold them to account for their lies at the ballot box.
It’s time to end political careers pour encourager les autres.

The ways and means account has been set at 2 billion GBP since 2000. The BOE provides this to government and is refinanced by the banks open market operations.

[UGagain]

From the always excellent Neil Wilson.



The Noble Lie — Revealed
It’s time to let you into a little secret.
It’s a secret about the UK that those in charge keep in plain sight, but hide with their rhetoric.
They desperately want to keep your attention on the Wizard of Oz pantomime going on in front of you.
But we’re going to look behind the curtain.
This secret is so powerful and so profound that it will alter everything that you understand about how government works and what it can do for you.
It will highlight the lies politicians tell you. And it will disappoint you when you find that those lies are told by politicians across the spectrum.
It’s a simple lie. And they are always the best.
And the lie is this — that governments can run short of money.
So what’s the truth?
The UK government owns the Bank of England and has an operational infinite overdraft with its own bank (known as the ‘Ways and Means Account’).

That means the Government’s credit card is a Super Platinum Card and nobody can tell the government what it can and can’t spend.
Running short is impossible.
And of course the interest rate is effectively zero. If you own a bank, then anything you pay to that bank as interest comes back to you as profits of the bank you own.
Now, when government spends it creates a chain of transactions that causes taxation to flow, and creates savings at the Bank of England that match the initial spending. In the ratio of about 90% tax for 10% savings. Penny for penny, each time, every time, for any positive tax rate.
The books always balance. Anybody suggesting otherwise is lying.
So that means…
That means that if there is stuff and people free in the UK economy, then the UK government can set them to work.
If there are unemployed people we can give them a job.
If there is a drop in private trade, then that creates more space for government investment, not less.
It means that austerity is a political choice.
It means that paying interest on government debt is a political choice.
It means that the political class is lying to you.
So ask yourself:
Who benefits from the unnecessary interest paid on government debt. Why do we pay £240m per week overseas unnecessarily?
Who benefits from ensuring there are always fewer jobs than people who want them?
Who benefits from threatening tax rises when none are required?
Your politicians are lying to you, from all sides. Time to ask them why. Get them to admit the truth.
But importantly hold them to account for their lies at the ballot box.
It’s time to end political careers pour encourager les autres.

The ways and means account has been set at 2 billion GBP since 2000. The BOE provides this to government and is refinanced by the banks open market operations.

Which means nothing. Where do you think the pounds come from?

The Bank of England is the government.

[UGagain]

Probably a bit long and complex for Digby and the like but this is a pretty good analysis imo.


http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.n ... rrors.html

Outside the Hall of Mirrors
The outcome of last week’s vote concerning Britain’s membership in the European Union has set off anguished cries and handwaving across much of the internet and the mass media. The unexpected defeat of the pro-EU camp, though, has important lessons to offer, and not just for those of my readers who live in Britain; the core issues underlying the Brexit referendum are also massive realities in many other countries right now, and will likely play a very large role—quite probably a decisive one—in this year’s presidential race here in the United States.

From one of he responses to the above article

As someone on the internet pointed out, (I think it was either Craig Murray or Billy Bragg), all bigots will vote leave. Not all those that vote leave are bigots. Whichever of them that said that was campaigning for a Remain vote, so to characterise all those that voted for remain as you have done here is inaccurate. It seems to me that regardless of which side of the debate you're on, how you put your arguments is more about personal maturity than of your political persuasion.

Children are emotional. Adults are rational

How very true

Irrelevant hand waving.

[Sandydragon]

From the always excellent Neil Wilson.



The Noble Lie — Revealed
It’s time to let you into a little secret.
It’s a secret about the UK that those in charge keep in plain sight, but hide with their rhetoric.
They desperately want to keep your attention on the Wizard of Oz pantomime going on in front of you.
But we’re going to look behind the curtain.
This secret is so powerful and so profound that it will alter everything that you understand about how government works and what it can do for you.
It will highlight the lies politicians tell you. And it will disappoint you when you find that those lies are told by politicians across the spectrum.
It’s a simple lie. And they are always the best.
And the lie is this — that governments can run short of money.
So what’s the truth?
The UK government owns the Bank of England and has an operational infinite overdraft with its own bank (known as the ‘Ways and Means Account’).

That means the Government’s credit card is a Super Platinum Card and nobody can tell the government what it can and can’t spend.
Running short is impossible.
And of course the interest rate is effectively zero. If you own a bank, then anything you pay to that bank as interest comes back to you as profits of the bank you own.
Now, when government spends it creates a chain of transactions that causes taxation to flow, and creates savings at the Bank of England that match the initial spending. In the ratio of about 90% tax for 10% savings. Penny for penny, each time, every time, for any positive tax rate.
The books always balance. Anybody suggesting otherwise is lying.
So that means…
That means that if there is stuff and people free in the UK economy, then the UK government can set them to work.
If there are unemployed people we can give them a job.
If there is a drop in private trade, then that creates more space for government investment, not less.
It means that austerity is a political choice.
It means that paying interest on government debt is a political choice.
It means that the political class is lying to you.
So ask yourself:
Who benefits from the unnecessary interest paid on government debt. Why do we pay £240m per week overseas unnecessarily?
Who benefits from ensuring there are always fewer jobs than people who want them?
Who benefits from threatening tax rises when none are required?
Your politicians are lying to you, from all sides. Time to ask them why. Get them to admit the truth.
But importantly hold them to account for their lies at the ballot box.
It’s time to end political careers pour encourager les autres.

The ways and means account has been set at 2 billion GBP since 2000. The BOE provides this to government and is refinanced by the banks open market operations.

Which means nothing. Where do you think the pounds come from?

The Bank of England is the government.

Wilson portrayed the account as an unlimited credit card. That is incorrect in its application.

As for the government being able to generate unlimited financial resources, that is just one economic argument amongst many.

[UGagain]

The ways and means account has been set at 2 billion GBP since 2000. The BOE provides this to government and is refinanced by the banks open market operations.

Which means nothing. Where do you think the pounds come from?

The Bank of England is the government.

Wilson portrayed the account as an unlimited credit card. That is incorrect in its application.

No it isn't.

As for the government being able to generate unlimited financial resources, that is just one economic argument amongst many.

No it isn't. It is the reality of fiat currency. It is a matter of accounting.

You have, yet again, completely missed the argument.

[Sandydragon]

The ways and means account has been set at 2 billion GBP since 2000. The BOE provides this to government and is refinanced by the banks open market operations.

Which means nothing. Where do you think the pounds come from?

The Bank of England is the government.

Wilson portrayed the account as an unlimited credit card. That is incorrect in its application.

As for the government being able to generate unlimited financial resources, that is just one economic argument amongst many.

In a fiat money system, the vast majority of money is created by banks, not the government. The printed £5 note we exchange for good or services is a promise; it doesn't have an intrinsic value in its own right.

[Sandydragon]

Which means nothing. Where do you think the pounds come from?

The Bank of England is the government.

Wilson portrayed the account as an unlimited credit card. That is incorrect in its application.

No it isn't.

As for the government being able to generate unlimited financial resources, that is just one economic argument amongst many.

No it isn't. It is the reality of fiat currency. It is a matter of accounting.

You have, yet again, completely missed the argument.

Go on then, explain how your system would work, both nationally and internationally.

[UGagain]

Wilson portrayed the account as an unlimited credit card. That is incorrect in its application.

No it isn't.

As for the government being able to generate unlimited financial resources, that is just one economic argument amongst many.

No it isn't. It is the reality of fiat currency. It is a matter of accounting.

You have, yet again, completely missed the argument.

Go on then, explain how your system would work, both nationally and internationally.

Don't be childish.

[Sandydragon]

No it isn't.



No it isn't. It is the reality of fiat currency. It is a matter of accounting.

You have, yet again, completely missed the argument.

Go on then, explain how your system would work, both nationally and internationally.

Don't be childish.

Childish for asking you to explain your system? How so? You keep moaning that the rest of us miss the point - try educating.

[UGagain]

Go on then, explain how your system would work, both nationally and internationally.

Don't be childish.

Childish for asking you to explain your system? How so? You keep moaning that the rest of us miss the point - try educating.

You're being utterly disingenuous again.

It isn't 'my system'. It is the system that we have.

Deal with it without the childish debating tactics.

[Sandydragon]

Don't be childish.

Childish for asking you to explain your system? How so? You keep moaning that the rest of us miss the point - try educating.

You're being utterly disingenuous again.

It isn't 'my system'. It is the system that we have.

Deal with it without the childish debating tactics.

So, in the fiat money system, how can a government print as much money as it likes (a misleading term but one commonly used) without penalty. Im assuming you mean a long term increase in available finance not short sharp bursts like QE.

Come on, stop stalling. How would it work?