RWC Training Squad

[FKAS]

Play your first choice combos as much as you can. IMO you aren't answering many selection issues in scratch sides against scratch sides.

Whilst I'd definitely look to give the first choice combos the bulk of the game time

well you agree then. The bench naturally get game time such is modern rugby-so rotate your bench.

Small difference, I'd ensure that every player I expect to be in the 23 starts at least one game. Rotate the starting and bench front rows particularly. Got to strike that balance between getting everyone match fit and working on the key combinations.

[Banquo]

How players handle the occasion, whether they can stick to the game plan, whether they are stepping up to lead etc there's a lot of things you don't find out until an actual competitive match as a team.

There may be some calls dividing the coaching group as well, training only tells so much.

These warm up games really arent the real thing.

They are if you think you're playing for your place in the world cup squad.

sorry but I get maybe the benefit of match sharpness, but not as a selectorial tool.

[FKAS]

What is a performance in one-off nothing game going to prove though? Someone can play themselves out of a position, like a debutant sinking rather than swimming, but I don't see how anyone can really stake a claim in a one-off game in a scratch side, against what could be a Wales 2nd XV. If they've not made the squad based on the weeks of training camp, I don't think one game will turn it around.

Puja

How players handle the occasion, whether they can stick to the game plan, whether they are stepping up to lead etc there's a lot of things you don't find out until an actual competitive match as a team.

There may be some calls dividing the coaching group as well, training only tells so much.

But in a one-off? In a scratch side, against a scratch side? A lot of players can flatter to deceive under those circumstances.

If there is a specific call dividing the coaching group, then I can see the value, but I'll be disappointed if they're leaving more than 1-2 bits of selection to the last minute and basing them off one performance. Bandwidth and co should know their RWC squad by now, with only maybe a couple of unknowns.

Puja

I think you should always have an open mind for a bolter to come through. Yeah the friendlies aren't indicative of the big games to come but they are a better indicator than training. The side I suggested isn't weak gets players that may not be featuring towards the business end of the friendly games minutes as well.

If the Borthinator is so sure of his squad already he might as well just cut down to the final selection at the start of the week and focus on those he's taking. The fact he hasn't suggests he may want to experiment a little.

[Banquo]

Whilst I'd definitely look to give the first choice combos the bulk of the game time

well you agree then. The bench naturally get game time such is modern rugby-so rotate your bench.

Small difference, I'd ensure that every player I expect to be in the 23 starts at least one game. Rotate the starting and bench front rows particularly. Got to strike that balance between getting everyone match fit and working on the key combinations.

v small difference, of course your expected 23 would contain 1st or near 1st choice combos.

The real point I'm making is that basing selection on the warm ups is a bit of a folly.

[Puja]

How players handle the occasion, whether they can stick to the game plan, whether they are stepping up to lead etc there's a lot of things you don't find out until an actual competitive match as a team.

There may be some calls dividing the coaching group as well, training only tells so much.

But in a one-off? In a scratch side, against a scratch side? A lot of players can flatter to deceive under those circumstances.

If there is a specific call dividing the coaching group, then I can see the value, but I'll be disappointed if they're leaving more than 1-2 bits of selection to the last minute and basing them off one performance. Bandwidth and co should know their RWC squad by now, with only maybe a couple of unknowns.

Puja

I think you should always have an open mind for a bolter to come through. Yeah the friendlies aren't indicative of the big games to come but they are a better indicator than training. The side I suggested isn't weak gets players that may not be featuring towards the business end of the friendly games minutes as well.

If the Borthinator is so sure of his squad already he might as well just cut down to the final selection at the start of the week and focus on those he's taking. The fact he hasn't suggests he may want to experiment a little.

An open mind for a bolter to come through is fine, but surely not 2 days before the squad is named!

Puja

[Oakboy]

If SB doesn't know every single one of his squad and his first choice 23 now, I'd suggest he has screwed up. Those not already destined for the final 33 are there just to cover for late injuries and to provide training depth.

[Banquo]

If SB doesn't know every single one of his squad and his first choice 23 now, I'd suggest he has screwed up. Those not already destined for the final 33 are there just to cover for late injuries and to provide training depth.

you would think so, and these games should be about prep and fine tuning....ideally. Dont really like the back selections tho.

[Oakboy]

If SB doesn't know every single one of his squad and his first choice 23 now, I'd suggest he has screwed up. Those not already destined for the final 33 are there just to cover for late injuries and to provide training depth.

you would think so, and these games should be about prep and fine tuning....ideally. Dont really like the back selections tho.

Maybe, we have to make allowances for what SB was lumbered with?? The really interesting time for me will be how he rebuilds in the first of the next four years. For now, there is pragmatism in selection and tactics. Possibly, there is some in the coaching crew choices too.

[FKAS]

Borthwick is undoubtedly playing catch up. It was interesting hearing Townsend after the Italy game talk about how form in the friendlies was playing a part in deciding which 8 were going to be left behind.

[16th man]

Argentina appear to be doing that naggingly irritating thing they do, actually planning for and peaking in world cup year.

Real chance we could get caught cold against them if we don't use the warm ups well.

[Oakboy]

Argentina appear to be doing that naggingly irritating thing they do, actually planning for and peaking in world cup year.

Real chance we could get caught cold against them if we don't use the warm ups well.

Matching their physicality will be a fair challenge.

[Yorkie]

I don't think it matters if we are first or second in the group, we'll most likely be up against Wales or Australia, pretty much even. In the semis it'll be one of France, New Zealand or Ireland, again all very good sides.

[Banquo]

If SB doesn't know every single one of his squad and his first choice 23 now, I'd suggest he has screwed up. Those not already destined for the final 33 are there just to cover for late injuries and to provide training depth.

you would think so, and these games should be about prep and fine tuning....ideally. Dont really like the back selections tho.

Maybe, we have to make allowances for what SB was lumbered with?? The really interesting time for me will be how he rebuilds in the first of the next four years. For now, there is pragmatism in selection and tactics. Possibly, there is some in the coaching crew choices too.

he was 'lumbered' with pretty much the same players as eddie picked.

[Tom Moore]

Murley back in according to Twitter.

[FKAS]

Murley back in according to Twitter.

I wonder if he'll be the only one. Rodd went and then came back so Borthwick has form for making adjustments. I hope VRR also comes back in.

[Puja]

Murley back in according to Twitter.

Officially confirmed now. I wonder what on earth is going on - not like he was sent back to his club to get match practice or anything. Maybe there's an injury concern in the squad? Or he was injured and is now fit? Strong Benchpress has form for not releasing any info about injuries.

Puja

[Banquo]

justice for tommy

[Danno]

I'm happy with anyone other* than Malins tbh.

*out of May, Watson, Murley, Arundell, a.n.other

[FKAS]

Murley back in according to Twitter.

Officially confirmed now. I wonder what on earth is going on - not like he was sent back to his club to get match practice or anything. Maybe there's an injury concern in the squad? Or he was injured and is now fit? Strong Benchpress has form for not releasing any info about injuries.

Puja

Personal, injury, rest who knows, Borthwick hasn't commented so we don't know. Entirely usual for Borthwick as you say.

[Oakboy]

DT predicting Tom Willis to start at 8 in the first build-up match. Mind you, it also suggests SB has only firmed up on 26 of the 33 (which is ridiculous) so who knows?

[Scrumhead]

Why is it ridiculous? To me that sounds like 20 or so clear cut decisions and 3 50:50 calls.

We already know the back row is going to be a tough shout and that alone could account for two of those 50:50s. It’s going to be similar with the back three too.

The Murley piece is odd, but why is there always a default assumption of incompetence and a negative overreaction?

[fivepointer]

Just seems odd to drop a player one week and reinstate them the next. If Murley had to have some downtime why not simply make a statement to that effect and to still leave him as a squad member. We had Rodd in a similar position. It makes Borthwick look like he's undecided when the real answer could be that players just need to spend time away from camp for a period.
On the question of deciding on your squad. Its not unusual for coaches to make decisions at the 11th hour over a few players. There are a lot of players with very similar abilities left to choose from and in a few cases the calls are going to be highly marginal. Makes sense for a coach to take all the time he has to make a final decision.

[Beasties]

DT predicting Tom Willis to start at 8 in the first build-up match. Mind you, it also suggests SB has only firmed up on 26 of the 33 (which is ridiculous) so who knows?

If we only end up with one "bolter" I’d be happy if it turned out to be T Willis. Absolute machine imo.

[Puja]

Just seems odd to drop a player one week and reinstate them the next. If Murley had to have some downtime why not simply make a statement to that effect and to still leave him as a squad member. We had Rodd in a similar position. It makes Borthwick look like he's undecided when the real answer could be that players just need to spend time away from camp for a period.

Stress Blackhole has a deliberate policy of not giving information about player's personal situations to the media, as he resents the environment that makes the public/media feel *owed* personal information about health, injuries, situation, etc. I do get his point - players are real people too and should have some expectation of privacy, but it was hugely frustrating as a Leicester fan to not know if someone was injured or just out of favour and, if they were injured, whether it was a big one or just a scratch. Guess we have got used to know as fans and do feel entitled.

tl;dr - not making a statement to that effect is absolutely on brand for him.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah surely this is just an injury concern for another winger not being announced, and Murley will be with the squad until a final decision is made on their fitness.

I feel like Oakboy has a bit of a hangover from Eddie’s reign with regards to the compulsive negativity. I’m far from convinced Borthwick isn’t largely more of the same, but he hasn’t had long enough (a predictable issue, obviously) to assess all players properly or put his plans in place.

I don’t see why it’s a big concern that he’s still deciding on some positions. Jones left him in a position where finally giving a player like Dombrandt an extended run (with pretty mixed results, unfortunately) took up a huge amount of his 6 nations time. Eddie’s chopping and changing in many key positions left a lot of questions to be answered in a short space of time.