Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I wouldn't be unhappy with that. Looks fun at least and there's a bit of pace in there to balance what we thought we might be getting in the backs.

I wonder if Lawes or Genge would get the nod as captain?

How would you rate Martin in terms of balance with Itoje as a lock pairing?

Agreed on Pearson. Would this be Earl's first England start?

[Puja]

Yeah I wouldn't be unhappy with that. Looks fun at least and there's a bit of pace in there to balance what we thought we might be getting in the backs.

I wonder if Lawes or Genge would get the nod as captain?

How would you rate Martin in terms of balance with Itoje as a lock pairing?

Agreed on Pearson. Would this be Earl's first England start?

Could be a match made in heaven, tbh. Martin's got a lot of the characteristics that made Lawtoje work - big tackler, big carrier, strong work-rate. Would be able to take a chunk of the loose carries off of Itoje's plate and allow him to focus on making an impact in rucks. He's not as good in a ruck as Lawes or as good in a lineout as Kruis, but he's still growing and has so far effortlessly stepped up to just about every new level that he's been dropped in at.

Genge is captain for Saturday according to the Telegraph, which is a slightly better quality of rumour.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

That sounds promising in a lot of ways, but did Lawtoje really work? Did it ever have the balance of er… Iroie? Ktujs? It was certainly a catchier moniker.

[Margin_Walker]

Unless they were lifting it from somewhere else, I wouldn't place too much value in the Ruck team.

Times reckon Pearson is playing.

[FKAS]

Martin is a big bloke as well at 6ft6 and 19 stone. The issue with the Lawtoje combination was that it detracted a little from the set piece. Hopefully with Martin in there the tighthead will have more bulk behind them.

Lawes and Itoje worked well enough at the last world cup with Kruis rotated in/subbed on as we needed more in the tight.

[FKAS]

Unless they were lifting it from somewhere else, I wouldn't place too much value in the Ruck team.

Times reckon Pearson is playing.

Rumours so far suggest:

Genge is captain
Pearson at 12
Care/Smith combo at half back

Also some mutterings around a Manu/Lawrence midfield

All of which would be an interesting watch.

[Margin_Walker]

Pearson could totally play 12 tbf

[Margin_Walker]

15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
14. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 18 caps)
13. Joe Marchant (Stade Francais, 15 caps)
12. Guy Porter (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
11. Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
10. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 21 caps)
9. Danny Care (Harlequins, 87 caps)
1. Ellis Genge © (Bristol Bears, 48 caps)
2. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 6 caps)
3. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 25 caps)
4. David Ribbans (Toulon, 5 caps)
5. George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
6. Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 19 caps)
7. Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
8. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 14 caps)

Replacements:
16. Theo Dan (Saracens, uncapped)
17. Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 61 caps)
19. Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 19 caps)
20. Tom Willis (Saracens, uncapped)
21. Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 12 caps)
22. George Ford (Sale Sharks, 81 caps)
23. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 56 caps)

[FKAS]

That's an interesting side. Slightly disappointed that Arundell isn't getting a go and that Malins is still on the wing. Does Steward really need to play every game? Arundell at 15 and Murley in for Malins would make a more interesting back division.

Meaty tight five. Like that. Smith gets his club 8, 9 and 13. Hopefully that means he might show some club level form in an England shirt.

[Puja]

Unless they were lifting it from somewhere else, I wouldn't place too much value in the Ruck team.

Yup.

Puja

[Margin_Walker]

Yeah, turns out after all the chat it is a trial type team, with a few exceptions here and there.

[Margin_Walker]

Unless they were lifting it from somewhere else, I wouldn't place too much value in the Ruck team.

Yup.

Puja

They are at least consistent.

They do two types of stories (all making you click through multiple pages for the ad revenue):

- Exclusives they nick from elsewhere.
- Stuff they straight up make up.

[Banquo]

15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
14. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 18 caps)
13. Joe Marchant (Stade Francais, 15 caps)
12. Guy Porter (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
11. Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
10. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 21 caps)
9. Danny Care (Harlequins, 87 caps)
1. Ellis Genge © (Bristol Bears, 48 caps)
2. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 6 caps)
3. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 25 caps)
4. David Ribbans (Toulon, 5 caps)
5. George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
6. Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 19 caps)
7. Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
8. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 14 caps)

Replacements:
16. Theo Dan (Saracens, uncapped)
17. Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 61 caps)
19. Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 19 caps)
20. Tom Willis (Saracens, uncapped)
21. Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 12 caps)
22. George Ford (Sale Sharks, 81 caps)
23. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 56 caps)

Seem Sloppy Bonehead is ignoring my advice

[Puja]

That is a *significantly* weaker team than the one Ruck showed and I'm feeling much less confident now. Very unhappy at no Martoje, as I was looking forward to that. Agreed with FKAS about a worry on Steward needing more rest vs more game time, although he has had a good rest for the first time in a while.

For all the talk of "This isn't a selection shootout", it appears to be a lot of players on the fringe being given a chance to prove themselves, mostly alongside their competition for a place in the final squad - Ludlam vs Pearson, Dombrandt vs TWillis, Ribbans vs Hill vs Martin, Cokanasiga vs Malins, Porter vs Marchant.

Puja

[Puja]

Unless they were lifting it from somewhere else, I wouldn't place too much value in the Ruck team.

Yup.

Puja

They are at least consistent.

They do two types of stories (all making you click through multiple pages for the ad revenue):

- Exclusives they nick from elsewhere.
- Stuff they straight up make up.

This one was extraordinary, even for Ruck, as they did the usual split it over 2 pages to make you click through, but the break was in the middle of the forward pack. So you had 15-9, 1-2 named on one page and 3-8, 16-23 on the second. Weird.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Not the worst team and there are some good picks that i can get right behind. Pleased for Pearson, Martin and its good to see Dan and T Willis on the bench. Big chance for Smith to lay down a marker and, while i'm not completely won over with the back selection, theres enough quality to make it interesting. Porter at IC looks a bit leftfield. The coaches see something they like even if its not obvious to us just what. We'll see. Surprised there's no place for Arundell or Daly.

[FKAS]

Yup.

Puja

They are at least consistent.

They do two types of stories (all making you click through multiple pages for the ad revenue):

- Exclusives they nick from elsewhere.
- Stuff they straight up make up.

This one was extraordinary, even for Ruck, as they did the usual split it over 2 pages to make you click through, but the break was in the middle of the forward pack. So you had 15-9, 1-2 named on one page and 3-8, 16-23 on the second. Weird.

Puja

They could have got at least three pages out of that.

[Banquo]

That is a *significantly* weaker team than the one Ruck showed and I'm feeling much less confident now. Very unhappy at no Martoje, as I was looking forward to that. Agreed with FKAS about a worry on Steward needing more rest vs more game time, although he has had a good rest for the first time in a while.

For all the talk of "This isn't a selection shootout", it appears to be a lot of players on the fringe being given a chance to prove themselves, mostly alongside their competition for a place in the final squad - Ludlam vs Pearson, Dombrandt vs TWillis, Ribbans vs Hill vs Martin, Cokanasiga vs Malins, Porter vs Marchant.

Puja

just find it odd that you can hazard a selection guess in a scratch side. How you can judge say Porter v Marchant when they are playing different positions, ditto Ludlam v Pearson, even locks.

[Puja]

BBC have spotted something which I don't think any of us have:

No player who played in the Premiership final is in the starting XV.

That makes sense. Give them an extra week as they entered the camp 2 weeks after everyone else and give them more time between games. Method to the madness.

Puja

[fivepointer]

BBC have spotted something which I don't think any of us have:

No player who played in the Premiership final is in the starting XV.

That makes sense. Give them an extra week as they entered the camp 2 weeks after everyone else and give them more time between games. Method to the madness.

Puja

Didnt Malins play in the final.

[Puja]

BBC have spotted something which I don't think any of us have:

No player who played in the Premiership final is in the starting XV.

That makes sense. Give them an extra week as they entered the camp 2 weeks after everyone else and give them more time between games. Method to the madness.

Puja

Didnt Malins play in the final.

Good point. In which case the BBC are talking absolute ruck.co.uk. Never mind, carry on.

Puja

[jngf]

That is a *significantly* weaker team than the one Ruck showed and I'm feeling much less confident now. Very unhappy at no Martoje, as I was looking forward to that. Agreed with FKAS about a worry on Steward needing more rest vs more game time, although he has had a good rest for the first time in a while.

For all the talk of "This isn't a selection shootout", it appears to be a lot of players on the fringe being given a chance to prove themselves, mostly alongside their competition for a place in the final squad - Ludlam vs Pearson, Dombrandt vs TWillis, Ribbans vs Hill vs Martin, Cokanasiga vs Malins, Porter vs Marchant.

Puja

just find it odd that you can hazard a selection guess in a scratch side. How you can judge say Porter v Marchant when they are playing different positions, ditto Ludlam v Pearson, even locks.

Think Ludlam is (rightly imo) seen as primarily a blindside flank at test level by Sony Bonio and Pearson as an openside. Would think the 6 contest is between Ludlam and T Curry and the 7 contest between J Willis and Pearson. Also interesting to see Lawes down as a lock in the RFU England squad side and rather than Lawtoje I would prefer a shoot out between Lawes, Itoje and Martin to go for the loose lock berth. We have much greater mobility in our other 6 options and Ludlam is a very competent 3rd line out jumper even if he’s not a beanpole. That 4 shirt should be used for a power tight ball carrier, meaning less reliance on needing something quite so Billiesque at no.8

Forget to add that Earl should be in hunt for 7 shirt too, both Ben Curry and now Tom Pearson have been given a start at 7 and would be interested to see how Earl gets on with a full game as opposed to many short stints from the bench.

[Oakboy]

For the opening RWC match who from this XV will start? Steward and Genge? I'm not sure what is being achieved unless SB is simply resolved to give all the current squad starts in the warm-ups. With the 33 being named after this game and before the next one (have I got that right?), are the rejects being lined up from this XV? If 3 SHs and 3 FHs get in the 33 is this last-chance saloon for quite a few? It seems an odd way to go about things so I must have it wrong - mustn't I?

[Mikey Brown]

just find it odd that you can hazard a selection guess in a scratch side. How you can judge say Porter v Marchant when they are playing different positions, ditto Ludlam v Pearson, even locks.

Yep. Direct competition playing alongside eachother and has enough of a Barbarians vibe to make it feel basically pointless as a barometer of form. I mean is Porter at 12 a thing that's really worth spending time on?

It's hard to picture getting a good picture of what Willis can do in 25 minutes off the bench. Hopefully Borthwick has some sort of plan for making the most of game time in these warmups, but I'm far less interested in this game now.

[Mush]

Well I'm looking forward to it!
Looking at that side - both sides, England & Wales perhaps - it should be a relatively open game so I'm not going to criticize that, not after some of the crap that has been mostly recently served up.
Also, maybe its the 'wrong' time but it will hopefully give us an idea of what's to come - hopefully during if not after the RWC.