Wales vs England - Saturday 5.30pm

[Oakboy]

Marchant is avoiding criticism so maybe I downgraded him harshly. I was disappointed that he was stopped so easily in the earlier break when really a decent international centre ought to have scored, I thought. Did nobody else see it that way?

[Oakboy]

ludlam looked like he was carrying too much timber bluntly.

How do you make that out?

Er, cause he looked fat????

[Mikey Brown]

ludlam looked like he was carrying too much timber bluntly.

How do you make that out?

I don’t want to speak for Banquo but he probably watched the game?

[jngf]

ludlam looked like he was carrying too much timber bluntly.

How do you make that out?

I don’t want to speak for Banquo but he probably watched the game?

So did I and Ludlam didn’t look fat to me and I was rather impressed with his pace as I have been in 6 Nations

[fivepointer]

Hooker is a major problem for us now. George really needs to be wrapped in cotton wool as no-one else we have seems to be up to standard. I know there has been a fair bit of excitement around Theo Dan, but he really shat the bed on his debut and Blamire wasn’t much better.

Now we know why Walker has been retained. LCD being crocked really does limit our options.

Think Dan is a big talent but maybe this WC is a year too soon for him.

[Banquo]

ludlam looked like he was carrying too much timber bluntly.

How do you make that out?

Did you see the game? I reckon he's put on at least a stone since the start of last season. He played ok, but looks very top heavy.

(I've checked, and he's put on 7 kgs in a year)

By contrast, Dombrandt looks like he's shed a stone. Its probably planned in fairness.

[Scrumhead]

Timber or otherwise, Ludlam was one of the few players who wasn’t rubbish. That break was a bit more reminiscent of what we see in a Saints jersey and I think he’s probably cemented his place in the squad.

Seeing Coka and Malins play poorly makes it all the more annoying that Murley didn’t get a shot.

[Oakboy]

I'd guess that Ludlam is 3rd choice for the 6 shirt behind Curry and Lawes. There may be a case for him being behind Earl too. At best, both are reasonably versatile bench options, theoretically covering all three back row positions at a push. Depending on how SB wants to use Chessum and Martin, Ludlam could be even lower down the order, I suppose.

[Beasties]

I'd be inching Porter towards that list too.

Only inching?!?!?!?

Scrumpy Barrellscraper

Well this was my personal highlight of the game.

[p/d]

Our coaching staff made Edwards look a barrel of laughs.

Their demeanour for the whole game mirrored the tosh that was playing out in front of them. Players looked in poor shape, lethargic and, at times, confused. Not sure how many times Genge has captained but can’t imagine there is a tick in the win column. Care, Porter, Coka and Malins shouldn’t have even been named let alone coming out for the second half. Smith’s inability to remove phlegm from his mouth was his highlight whilst Steward and Marchant get a pass.

Pack incredibly disjointed and, as such, pretty ineffective

Come on SB prove us ‘out with Jones’ desk thumpers right!!!

[Puja]

Already feels like it was just a bad dream.

Hopefully next Saturday will see a team closer to first choice, with some familiarity, and actual basic skills on display. Don't want to get too carried away and ask for a cogent game plan that goes beyond hoof it in the air for the big lads to chase

We had a lot more attacking shape than we've seen in the last year. Two runners for the 9 to pick from and one in behind to link with the backs or act as support with our pods of 3. Smith got the ball in space with room to attack on several occasions.

It's not coherent enough yet but a step forward. Wales actually kicked the ball a lot more than we did.

Error count was just way to high. Can't turnover the ball 23 times in a test match, that's just ridiculous.

I would agree. There's no way in hell I'm going back to do a minute-by-minute, but I suspect if I did, there would be a lot of promise found in the opening thirty minutes, that we've mostly forgotten about because it was overridden in our brains by the abjectness of the next 50. We opened them up very nicely on a few occasions and there were some definite structure there. It all got buried in the competition of "Let's see how many times we can make basic handling errors" that we took up second half, but there was *something* there.

Puja

[Beasties]

Timber or otherwise, Ludlam was one of the few players who wasn’t rubbish. That break was a bit more reminiscent of what we see in a Saints jersey and I think he’s probably cemented his place in the squad.

Seeing Coka and Malins play poorly makes it all the more annoying that Murley didn’t get a shot.

Imagine being Tommy Freeman yesterday watching Coka put in that performance.

[Banquo]

Timber or otherwise, Ludlam was one of the few players who wasn’t rubbish. That break was a bit more reminiscent of what we see in a Saints jersey and I think he’s probably cemented his place in the squad.

Seeing Coka and Malins play poorly makes it all the more annoying that Murley didn’t get a shot.

I did say he played ok. But he's still top heavy.

Freeman is the one who should be most dischuffed. Malins has been pants for ages.

[Banquo]

Our coaching staff made Edwards look a barrel of laughs.

Their demeanour for the whole game mirrored the tosh that was playing out in front of them. Players looked in poor shape, lethargic and, at times, confused. Not sure how many times Genge has captained but can’t imagine there is a tick in the win column. Care, Porter, Coka and Malins shouldn’t have even been named let alone coming out for the second half. Smith’s inability to remove phlegm from his mouth was his highlight whilst Steward and Marchant get a pass.

Pack incredibly disjointed and, as such, pretty ineffective

Come on SB prove us ‘out with Jones’ desk thumpers right!!!

He's so far proving the meh-sayers amongst us correct.

[Scrumhead]

Marchant is avoiding criticism so maybe I downgraded him harshly. I was disappointed that he was stopped so easily in the earlier break when really a decent international centre ought to have scored, I thought. Did nobody else see it that way?

Well given he was the only back who made any kind of break in the entire game, I think you’re being harsh. Perhaps he could have made more of the opportunity, but it’s not like it was a walk-in and I don’t agree ‘any decent international centre ought to have scored’.

I’m more annoyed there was no-one running any kind of support line to keep the move alive.

[p/d]

[
He's so far proving the meh-sayers amongst us correct.

It was really wretched. I can’t help thinking a few are digging deep to find some positives. I will put my hands up and admit to not seeing any. Hell, even our kit fits like a sack of …..

[Banquo]

[
He's so far proving the meh-sayers amongst us correct.

It was really wretched. I can’t help thinking a few are digging deep to find some positives. I will put my hands up and admit to not seeing any. Hell, even our kit fits like a sack of …..

Thing is, whilst judging that game in isolation is a bit daft given the number of brand new combos.... it is what his mob fielded is the big issue for me, no gains to be had objectively.

[Mellsblue]

Marchant is avoiding criticism so maybe I downgraded him harshly. I was disappointed that he was stopped so easily in the earlier break when really a decent international centre ought to have scored, I thought. Did nobody else see it that way?

I’m more annoyed there was no-one running any kind of support line to keep the move alive.

Probably the shock that we made a line break.

[Mellsblue]

Timber or otherwise, Ludlam was one of the few players who wasn’t rubbish. That break was a bit more reminiscent of what we see in a Saints jersey and I think he’s probably cemented his place in the squad.

Seeing Coka and Malins play poorly makes it all the more annoying that Murley didn’t get a shot.

Imagine being Tommy Freeman yesterday watching Coka put in that performance.

Plus pretty much any winger in the Prem…

[Spiffy]

Timber or otherwise, Ludlam was one of the few players who wasn’t rubbish. That break was a bit more reminiscent of what we see in a Saints jersey and I think he’s probably cemented his place in the squad.

Seeing Coka and Malins play poorly makes it all the more annoying that Murley didn’t get a shot.

I did say he played ok. But he's still top heavy.

Freeman is the one who should be most dischuffed. Malins has been pants for ages.

I'm not a great fan of Malins, but at least he shows some rugby intelligence, whereas Coka is just a big lump with little between the ears. Neither should be there.

[Puja]

Timber or otherwise, Ludlam was one of the few players who wasn’t rubbish. That break was a bit more reminiscent of what we see in a Saints jersey and I think he’s probably cemented his place in the squad.

Seeing Coka and Malins play poorly makes it all the more annoying that Murley didn’t get a shot.

I did say he played ok. But he's still top heavy.

Freeman is the one who should be most dischuffed. Malins has been pants for ages.

I'm not a great fan of Malins, but at least he shows some rugby intelligence, whereas Coka is just a big lump with little between the ears. Neither should be there.

The most notable moment of the game was watching Coka run an inside line and get stopped on the gainline, then watching Marchant run the same move a couple of minutes later and making a half-break. I was willing to give Coka a chance on the basis that being fit again and having a full training camp might've got the best out of him. That chance has been given, he's not international quality right now, let's move the hell on.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Already feels like it was just a bad dream.

Hopefully next Saturday will see a team closer to first choice, with some familiarity, and actual basic skills on display. Don't want to get too carried away and ask for a cogent game plan that goes beyond hoof it in the air for the big lads to chase

We had a lot more attacking shape than we've seen in the last year. Two runners for the 9 to pick from and one in behind to link with the backs or act as support with our pods of 3. Smith got the ball in space with room to attack on several occasions.

It's not coherent enough yet but a step forward. Wales actually kicked the ball a lot more than we did.

Error count was just way to high. Can't turnover the ball 23 times in a test match, that's just ridiculous.

I would agree. There's no way in hell I'm going back to do a minute-by-minute, but I suspect if I did, there would be a lot of promise found in the opening thirty minutes, that we've mostly forgotten about because it was overridden in our brains by the abjectness of the next 50. We opened them up very nicely on a few occasions and there were some definite structure there. It all got buried in the competition of "Let's see how many times we can make basic handling errors" that we took up second half, but there was *something* there.

Puja

There was a lot of one out runners and paucity of options and slow as shit ball. There were also some decent and some very basic balls pulled back. Although we had the better of the first half it was miles of being cohesive or even really challenging. The odd nice play aside a lot was pretty telegraphed and at times yoy could see forwards not knowing where they should be / reading the play in front of them.

[Banquo]

Timber or otherwise, Ludlam was one of the few players who wasn’t rubbish. That break was a bit more reminiscent of what we see in a Saints jersey and I think he’s probably cemented his place in the squad.

Seeing Coka and Malins play poorly makes it all the more annoying that Murley didn’t get a shot.

I did say he played ok. But he's still top heavy.

Freeman is the one who should be most dischuffed. Malins has been pants for ages.

but at least he shows some rugby intelligence, whereas Coka is just a big lump with little between the ears. Neither should be there.

...does he? He looks mildly panicky mostly.

[Mr Mwenda]

Yeah, my interpretation of Coka was of someone having an anxiety attack, compounded by trying too hard. Not up to international rugby physically or mentally for now I fear. I hope he can have a good season at Bath.

[Mikey Brown]

We had a lot more attacking shape than we've seen in the last year. Two runners for the 9 to pick from and one in behind to link with the backs or act as support with our pods of 3. Smith got the ball in space with room to attack on several occasions.

It's not coherent enough yet but a step forward. Wales actually kicked the ball a lot more than we did.

Error count was just way to high. Can't turnover the ball 23 times in a test match, that's just ridiculous.

I would agree. There's no way in hell I'm going back to do a minute-by-minute, but I suspect if I did, there would be a lot of promise found in the opening thirty minutes, that we've mostly forgotten about because it was overridden in our brains by the abjectness of the next 50. We opened them up very nicely on a few occasions and there were some definite structure there. It all got buried in the competition of "Let's see how many times we can make basic handling errors" that we took up second half, but there was *something* there.

Puja

There was a lot of one out runners and paucity of options and slow as shit ball. There were also some decent and some very basic balls pulled back. Although we had the better of the first half it was miles of being cohesive or even really challenging. The odd nice play aside a lot was pretty telegraphed and at times yoy could see forwards not knowing where they should be / reading the play in front of them.

I thought it was telling that one of the highlights (from commentary) was a moment where the telepathic club comrades Care and Dombrandt got their timing wrong, with Care’s pass going behind Dombrandt, forcing him to throw an improved pass out the back to Smith which opened up a bit of space.