England vs Wales - Sat 5.30pm - A New Hope

[loudnconfident]

A new hope? or the phantom menace.

It's a better team.

I just want to see how the players put down what the coaches have been 'coaching them' to play in terms of shape, pod work, deception, lines, process etc. We saw none of that last week, which cannot be blamed on personnel, given that Shiny Baldhead believes each and every one of these players is international quality or thereabouts and have all received the exact same coaching, structure and instruction over the last few weeks.

We did, there was a different attacking shape to the one that finished the 6N and in the first half it worked ok. The biggest issue was not the shape it was the sheer number of handling errors. I'd like to see us start looking more cohesive. As we actually get through some phases we will start to see what we can do.

It'd be nice to not throw away attacking lineouts, as well

[Banquo]

Actually like this team. Pleased that JVP gets a start, Martin, Stuart and Marchant are retained, Earl finally gets to start a game, Billy is fit, Daly is in his best position and Arundell gets a run out. All in all, pretty good i reckon.

yep, dump faz for ford, happy days

It’s a bit early for whatever you’ve been taking.

True. Not that I wish anyone injuries in training or anything...

[francoisfou]

Actually like this team. Pleased that JVP gets a start, Martin, Stuart and Marchant are retained, Earl finally gets to start a game, Billy is fit, Daly is in his best position and Arundell gets a run out. All in all, pretty good i reckon.

yep, dump faz for ford, happy days

Indeed, but Sheep Botherer won’t listen to us.

[Mellsblue]

Actually like this team. Pleased that JVP gets a start, Martin, Stuart and Marchant are retained, Earl finally gets to start a game, Billy is fit, Daly is in his best position and Arundell gets a run out. All in all, pretty good i reckon.

yep, dump faz for ford, happy days

Indeed, but Sheep Botherer won’t listen to us.

If he is secretly Welsh that would explain quite a lot.

[jngf]

Ben Earl gets first start at openside - hopefully a case of good things come to those who wait!

[Gloskarlos]

A new hope? or the phantom menace.

It's a better team.

I just want to see how the players put down what the coaches have been 'coaching them' to play in terms of shape, pod work, deception, lines, process etc. We saw none of that last week, which cannot be blamed on personnel, given that Shiny Baldhead believes each and every one of these players is international quality or thereabouts and have all received the exact same coaching, structure and instruction over the last few weeks.

We did, there was a different attacking shape to the one that finished the 6N and in the first half it worked ok. The biggest issue was not the shape it was the sheer number of handling errors. I'd like to see us start looking more cohesive. As we actually get through some phases we will start to see what we can do.

I'm not sure we saw that at all really, even in the first half before it all went to cock we were relying on one off runners with no deception or aggressive lines in our pods trying to get over the gain line (which they did to be fair in most cases), the odd snap ball happened but it was telegraphed and way behind the gain line, the lack of dummy lines and believable tip lines made it so easy to read.

[Mikey Brown]

Ben Earl gets first start at openside - hopefully a case of good things come to those who wait!

Yep. Finally we can move past the dross we've had at 7 since Tom Rees. Lipman, Lund, Worsley, Robshaw, Haskell, Curry, Willis. Enough is enough.

[jngf]

Ben Earl gets first start at openside - hopefully a case of good things come to those who wait!

Yep. Finally we can move past the dross we've had at 7 since Tom Rees. Lipman, Lund, Worsley, Robshaw, Haskell, Curry, Willis. Enough is enough.

Fair do’s Mikey but Wordsley, Robshaw and Haskell were 6.5s at best (and you didn’t specify which Curry )

[Danno]

Ben Earl gets first start at openside - hopefully a case of good things come to those who wait!

Yep. Finally we can move past the dross we've had at 7 since Tom Rees. Lipman, Lund, Worsley, Robshaw, Haskell, Curry, Willis. Enough is enough.

+ Underhill, Ludlam, Burry

[normanski]

Intriguing match in prospect with both coaches trying to find answers to their combination questions.

The thing that struck me on Saturday, and Gatland mentioned it post-match, was that some England players were ‘blowing hard’ even before halftime. Wales were much the fitter side.

If your starting XV on Saturday, have the same level of fitness then that could indeed be a major factor in the result. Although Vunipola is said to be fit he, like George, haven’t played for quite a few months and there’s no fitness substitute for playing week in week out. Several of your more experienced players are getting a little long in the tooth (like Lydiate) and may not last if the game is played at high tempo, which is Gatland’s aim.

After a dismal 6N for both sides, my hope is we both come in under the radar, don’t meet in the quarters and get to the semis at least!

[FKAS]

A new hope? or the phantom menace.

It's a better team.

I just want to see how the players put down what the coaches have been 'coaching them' to play in terms of shape, pod work, deception, lines, process etc. We saw none of that last week, which cannot be blamed on personnel, given that Shiny Baldhead believes each and every one of these players is international quality or thereabouts and have all received the exact same coaching, structure and instruction over the last few weeks.

We did, there was a different attacking shape to the one that finished the 6N and in the first half it worked ok. The biggest issue was not the shape it was the sheer number of handling errors. I'd like to see us start looking more cohesive. As we actually get through some phases we will start to see what we can do.

I'm not sure we saw that at all really, even in the first half before it all went to cock we were relying on one off runners with no deception or aggressive lines in our pods trying to get over the gain line (which they did to be fair in most cases), the odd snap ball happened but it was telegraphed and way behind the gain line, the lack of dummy lines and believable tip lines made it so easy to read.

The pods had their shape. Two options for the 9 to choose from and then a player out the back. Playing quite flat to the gain line so that the defence didn't have much chance to realign and double up on the ball carrier. Reduced our ability to tip on but given how much we dropped the ball anyway not an issue.

Smith got the ball out the back when he wanted and generally on the front foot. We had some nice plays ultimately ruined by errors, Marchant popping up as an alternative distributor was a nice touch as he carried well also.

Some neat interplay threatened to break out in amongst the many errors. Genge's inside ball to Dombrant set him marauding into space, luckily the ref missed the fact it was forward because Dombrant can't time a run at international level. There was certainly hints of what we were trying to do.

I'm expecting more of the same this week but with more cohesion and the shape to be more apparent as we go through some actual phases.

[Gloskarlos]

Think you are seeing far more positives than there were, pods might have been 'there' in stance and numbers, but as I mentioned no runner in the pod aside from the lead, support players offered nothing in deception at all and the lead took it in nearly every time, aside from the Smith out the back options that did happen 2 or 3 times I will concede. This is the very basic stuff (notwithstanding terrible handling) that would've (should've) been drilled into these players for weeks. I didn't see the second half so I only have that on hearsay, but with the time they have had altogether they need to be far far further on that that.

[Puja]

The thing that struck me on Saturday, and Gatland mentioned it post-match, was that some England players were ‘blowing hard’ even before halftime. Wales were much the fitter side.

I felt that too. I'm hoping that what's actually happening is that there's still a month before the first game and we are still being flogged into shape by Walters with the aim of being at our peak for September. That would explain the tiredness and the number of second half errors from tired players.

That is the hopeful interpretation, of course. The other is that we're just unfit and crap.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Genge's inside ball to Dombrant set him marauding into space, luckily the ref missed the fact it was forward because Dombrant can't time a run at international level. There was certainly hints of what we were trying to do.

Are we saying Dombrandt is too fast for test rugby?!?!?

[FKAS]

The thing that struck me on Saturday, and Gatland mentioned it post-match, was that some England players were ‘blowing hard’ even before halftime. Wales were much the fitter side.

I felt that too. I'm hoping that what's actually happening is that there's still a month before the first game and we are still being flogged into shape by Walters with the aim of being at our peak for September. That would explain the tiredness and the number of second half errors from tired players.

That is the hopeful interpretation, of course. The other is that we're just unfit and crap.

Puja

Tindall was saying on GBR that having talked to a member of the Welsh squad they've been focusing on rugby related training whilst we've seen the England guys going pretty hard at the S&C side.

I'm hoping England just hadn't tapered for the first game. Suspect we'll find out more this weekend.

[FKAS]

Genge's inside ball to Dombrant set him marauding into space, luckily the ref missed the fact it was forward because Dombrant can't time a run at international level. There was certainly hints of what we were trying to do.

Are we saying Dombrandt is too fast for test rugby?!?!?

No I said he can't time a run though you'd hope he was quicker than the team's loosehead.

[Oakboy]

Can’t imagine that’s too far off the starting XV.

Genge, Chessum, Curry to come in, maybe Watson

I think, if fit, Tuilagi will start at 12 with Lawrence at 13.

Genge is an interesting one. Up until the training squad was announced, I thought he was a certainty but why did he start last week and Marler this? I don't believe it had anything to do with the captaincy. I've always advocated starting with Marler and I wonder if SB is leaning that way.

Chessum, Curry, Watson - probably. However, I really can't believe we would not have Willis at 7. The territory/kicking game, by definition, means we have to spend a lot of game time trying to get the ball back. Willis is the best we have at doing just that.

[normanski]

The thing that struck me on Saturday, and Gatland mentioned it post-match, was that some England players were ‘blowing hard’ even before halftime. Wales were much the fitter side.

I felt that too. I'm hoping that what's actually happening is that there's still a month before the first game and we are still being flogged into shape by Walters with the aim of being at our peak for September. That would explain the tiredness and the number of second half errors from tired players.

That is the hopeful interpretation, of course. The other is that we're just unfit and crap.

Puja

Tindall was saying on GBR that having talked to a member of the Welsh squad they've been focusing on rugby related training whilst we've seen the England guys going pretty hard at the S&C side.

I'm hoping England just hadn't tapered for the first game. Suspect we'll find out more this weekend.

Yes. This has all makings of a good and defining test match. You have home advantage this week and some of your heavy cavalry returning so the odds are in your favour.

Wales, however, have nothing to lose if they are defeated narrowly and their uncapped and newer players will have gained great experience.

Can’t wait for 5.30 Saturday.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I like that side. There’s a few held back, but that’s a decent 23. It seems odds not to feel either angry or numb.

There’s some minor things I’d like to see, like someone other than Steward at 15, but it’s warm up 2 and that’s grand.

[Mellsblue]

Genge's inside ball to Dombrant set him marauding into space, luckily the ref missed the fact it was forward because Dombrant can't time a run at international level. There was certainly hints of what we were trying to do.

Are we saying Dombrandt is too fast for test rugby?!?!?

No I said he can't time a run though you'd hope he was quicker than the team's loosehead.

So Genge is too slow for test rugby?

[FKAS]

I felt that too. I'm hoping that what's actually happening is that there's still a month before the first game and we are still being flogged into shape by Walters with the aim of being at our peak for September. That would explain the tiredness and the number of second half errors from tired players.

That is the hopeful interpretation, of course. The other is that we're just unfit and crap.

Puja

Tindall was saying on GBR that having talked to a member of the Welsh squad they've been focusing on rugby related training whilst we've seen the England guys going pretty hard at the S&C side.

I'm hoping England just hadn't tapered for the first game. Suspect we'll find out more this weekend.

Yes. This has all makings of a good and defining test match. You have home advantage this week and some of your heavy cavalry returning so the odds are in your favour.

Wales, however, have nothing to lose if they are defeated narrowly and their uncapped and newer players will have gained great experience.

Can’t wait for 5.30 Saturday.

There's three uncapped players in the side and two of those are on the bench. Plenty of experience kicking about.

With all of these pre tournament friendlies, if you win then it's a statement victory and if you lose it's just a training exercise to learn from and you were rotating the side anyway.

[Oakboy]

Are we saying Dombrandt is too fast for test rugby?!?!?

No I said he can't time a run though you'd hope he was quicker than the team's loosehead.

So Genge is too slow for test rugby?

Off at a tangent, who would win over 30 yards, Genge or Billy V?

[Oakboy]

I like that side. There’s a few held back, but that’s a decent 23. It seems odds not to feel either angry or numb.

There’s some minor things I’d like to see, like someone other than Steward at 15, but it’s warm up 2 and that’s grand.

Do you like the back row as a unit?

[Mellsblue]

No I said he can't time a run though you'd hope he was quicker than the team's loosehead.

So Genge is too slow for test rugby?

Off at a tangent, who would win over 30 yards, Genge or Billy V?

Trick question. Billy can’t run 30 yards because he’s only just back from injury.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I like that side. There’s a few held back, but that’s a decent 23. It seems odds not to feel either angry or numb.

There’s some minor things I’d like to see, like someone other than Steward at 15, but it’s warm up 2 and that’s grand.

Do you like the back row as a unit?

For a warm up game, and generally yeah. Earl gets a start at 7, Billy gets a run out and Lawes at 6 is a known entity. Willis to come on and maybe Earl moves to 8?