RWC Training Squad

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah you seem to be suggesting just not picking a number 8 at all.

[jngf]

If one of our locks could carry with some of Billy’s (earlier on form) impact it would enable more flexibility in the choice of 8. I’m no fan of using no.4 locks as blindside flankers I.e Lawtoje but the interchangeability between a powerful 8 and no.4 lock would have more mileage - e.g could Martin play 8 if called upon?

[Mikey Brown]

What?

[Puja]

If one of our locks could carry with some of Billy’s (earlier on form) impact it would enable more flexibility in the choice of 8. I’m no fan of using no.4 locks as blindside flankers I.e Lawtoje but the interchangeability between a powerful 8 and no.4 lock would have more mileage - e.g could Martin play 8 if called upon?

This post is a thing of beauty. I believe it was just before the last world cup that we had to put a moratorium on Itoje at 8 posts and exactly four years later, we're back on again with the next young lock talent coming through.

This one does actually have some wheels on it though - Martin has played 8 for Leicester on 3-4 occasions last season, although it was more of a "broadening his horizons and teaching transferrable skills" than it was an idea for a permanent move to the position. So, yes, Martin can indeed play 8, although his control at the base is significantly lower than putting someone like Earl or Willis there.

Puja

[Spiffy]

Much talk about Earl at 8. OK he did well enough after the lumbering Billy departed (not hard to look good by comparison.) But at 6'1" and 16 st he's just too small for a top international 8. Much like Simmonds. He had a good game at open side, showed a lot of pace and enthusiasm. Better to keep him in that slot where he is a more natural fit. Fight it out with Curry/J.Willis/Ludlam for a flanker slot (and get rid of Lawes). Pity that Sad Bloke did not see the potential in Mercer/T. Willis.
Most pundits on this board could pick a better team.

I don't much care for his vital statistics if he can pull out carries into traffic like the one he did off the back of that scrum. Far rather have someone 16st who uses it well than someone 20st who doesn't.

Plus, I've got a lot of time for his control at the base when England were going forwards. Too many ersatz 8s have no capacity to control the ball at a moving scrum, but he did very well indeed at keeping the ball in and at his feet.

Puja

Controlling the ball at the back of a scrum with the side of the foot is not rocket science, nor is it some arcane and mystical skill of the select few. I believe most backrowers could manage it quite well with just a bit of practice. When you see someone screw it up, it's a fair bet he just couldn't be arsed to do it in training.

[Scrumhead]

I blame Dombrandt. He got the 6N run of games ahead of T Willis. Presumably, SB felt there was insufficient time to try both etc. Now, unless injury or suspension intervene, he has selected himself into a corner.

Are we all expecting SB to start with Youngs/Ford?

Eh? A) he didn’t select himself and B) he wasn’t worse than Billy was last weekend (or most of his performances in the last few years).

I’ve always backed the calls for Tom Willis, but Dombrandt isn’t the guy to blame for him not being selected.

[Oakboy]

I blame Dombrandt. He got the 6N run of games ahead of T Willis. Presumably, SB felt there was insufficient time to try both etc. Now, unless injury or suspension intervene, he has selected himself into a corner.

Are we all expecting SB to start with Youngs/Ford?

Eh? A) he didn’t select himself and B) he wasn’t worse than Billy was last weekend (or most of his performances in the last few years).

I’ve always backed the calls for Tom Willis, but Dombrandt isn’t the guy to blame for him not being selected.

I was being sarcastic/joking. To be fair, I always supported SB giving Dombrandt a decent run, albeit that I thought he should have gone with T Willis instead. Unfortunately, Dombrandt's failure to own the shirt caused SB to over-react and turn back the clock with BV's selection. It could still come off, I suppose.

Do you think SB has generally over-done the Saracens connection?

[Puja]

Much talk about Earl at 8. OK he did well enough after the lumbering Billy departed (not hard to look good by comparison.) But at 6'1" and 16 st he's just too small for a top international 8. Much like Simmonds. He had a good game at open side, showed a lot of pace and enthusiasm. Better to keep him in that slot where he is a more natural fit. Fight it out with Curry/J.Willis/Ludlam for a flanker slot (and get rid of Lawes). Pity that Sad Bloke did not see the potential in Mercer/T. Willis.
Most pundits on this board could pick a better team.

I don't much care for his vital statistics if he can pull out carries into traffic like the one he did off the back of that scrum. Far rather have someone 16st who uses it well than someone 20st who doesn't.

Plus, I've got a lot of time for his control at the base when England were going forwards. Too many ersatz 8s have no capacity to control the ball at a moving scrum, but he did very well indeed at keeping the ball in and at his feet.

Puja

Controlling the ball at the back of a scrum with the side of the foot is not rocket science, nor is it some arcane and mystical skill of the select few. I believe most backrowers could manage it quite well with just a bit of practice. When you see someone screw it up, it's a fair bet he just couldn't be arsed to do it in training.

You could say that about most skills that look easy. On a stable scrum where everything's gone right, sure, it's simple. On a scrum advancing in lurches and jolts, keeping the ball tight to the foot is a difficult skill that not everyone has (not to mention that doing it in a game against live opposition is a very different kettle of fish to doing it in training). It's a very underrated skill.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I thought that was a joke at first.

Yes it is an important skill that not everyone can just pick up if they feel like it.

[Danno]

What?

I need more thank buttons.

[Banquo]

I don't much care for his vital statistics if he can pull out carries into traffic like the one he did off the back of that scrum. Far rather have someone 16st who uses it well than someone 20st who doesn't.

Plus, I've got a lot of time for his control at the base when England were going forwards. Too many ersatz 8s have no capacity to control the ball at a moving scrum, but he did very well indeed at keeping the ball in and at his feet.

Puja

Controlling the ball at the back of a scrum with the side of the foot is not rocket science, nor is it some arcane and mystical skill of the select few. I believe most backrowers could manage it quite well with just a bit of practice. When you see someone screw it up, it's a fair bet he just couldn't be arsed to do it in training.

You could say that about most skills that look easy. On a stable scrum where everything's gone right, sure, it's simple. On a scrum advancing in lurches and jolts, keeping the ball tight to the foot is a difficult skill that not everyone has (not to mention that doing it in a game against live opposition is a very different kettle of fish to doing it in training). It's a very underrated skill.

Puja

...and probably even more difficult is when the scrum is under pressure, even going backwards....the timing and skill involved in that is not trivial. Then graft on the need to gather and get away from the base and get some yards near your own line. Its a specialist skill set.

[Banquo]

What?

I need more thank buttons.

I reckon some posters need think buttons as well (myself included in fairness )

[Mikey Brown]

Probably a pointless addition to the conversation at this point but I was checking if Willis's cameo against Wales had been put together on youtube, as he had a great pick up from a scrum under pressure, but found this try instead.

What a beast. This guy just doesn't give up.

[Banquo]

Probably a pointless addition to the conversation at this point but I was checking if Willis's cameo against Wales had been put together on youtube, as he had a great pick up from a scrum under pressure, but found this try instead.

What a beast. This guy just doesn't give up.

That's a great try.

[Mellsblue]

Probably a pointless addition to the conversation at this point but I was checking if Willis's cameo against Wales had been put together on youtube, as he had a great pick up from a scrum under pressure, but found this try instead.

What a beast. This guy just doesn't give up.

That's a great try.

It is. I wonder if the French are looking on in bemusement at our omission of Mercer and T Willy.

[Oakboy]

It is. I wonder if the French are looking on in bemusement at our omission of Mercer and T Willy.

Joining a fair few English rugby fans!

[p/d]

Good to know that, after yesterday, we are happy to take on Argentina without a specialist 8.

[Danno]

Good to know that, after yesterday, we are happy to take on Argentina without a specialist 8.

At least Jack Walker got some gametime

[p/d]

Good to know that, after yesterday, we are happy to take on Argentina without a specialist 8.

At least Jack Walker got some gametime

Yes, that was a relief. I think we can rest easy the positives outweigh the negatives

[p/d]

Now there is a concern;

We're playing the way we train at the minute, which is not good enough obviously," Ford said.

But not to worry:

I'm very clear that I was disappointed with the defence. We conceded too many tries and we missed too many tackles," Borthwick said.

"Our focus is on ensuring we are much better than that against Argentina in two weeks' time.

[morepork]

He is completely lost, the poor bastard.

[FKAS]

He is completely lost, the poor bastard.

Knowing what's going wrong and being able to correct it are two different things. I have full confidence that Borthwick knows what's going wrong but the lack of experience in the coaching staff and their ability to fix things is a concern. Hindsight being 20/20 we should have had an experienced coaching option in to assist with Felix Jones not arriving until after the world cup though none of us were excited about having Wigglesworth lead the attack in the short term.

[Stom]

I blame Dombrandt. He got the 6N run of games ahead of T Willis. Presumably, SB felt there was insufficient time to try both etc. Now, unless injury or suspension intervene, he has selected himself into a corner.

Are we all expecting SB to start with Youngs/Ford?

Eh? A) he didn’t select himself and B) he wasn’t worse than Billy was last weekend (or most of his performances in the last few years).

I’ve always backed the calls for Tom Willis, but Dombrandt isn’t the guy to blame for him not being selected.

I was being sarcastic/joking. To be fair, I always supported SB giving Dombrandt a decent run, albeit that I thought he should have gone with T Willis instead. Unfortunately, Dombrandt's failure to own the shirt caused SB to over-react and turn back the clock with BV's selection. It could still come off, I suppose.

Do you think SB has generally over-done the Saracens connection?

It's not really that, though, is it. It's worse than a coach forming an opinion on a player...

Serenity Boshmeister DECIDED he wanted his 8 to run INTO people instead of around them.

THAT is the level of rugby we're playing. THAT is what the world is going to see as England get humbled out of the easiest group stage in World Cup history.

IMO, this one decision on gameplan should be enough to ditch Scandalous Blowhard never mind the cost.

[Oakboy]

Eh? A) he didn’t select himself and B) he wasn’t worse than Billy was last weekend (or most of his performances in the last few years).

I’ve always backed the calls for Tom Willis, but Dombrandt isn’t the guy to blame for him not being selected.

I was being sarcastic/joking. To be fair, I always supported SB giving Dombrandt a decent run, albeit that I thought he should have gone with T Willis instead. Unfortunately, Dombrandt's failure to own the shirt caused SB to over-react and turn back the clock with BV's selection. It could still come off, I suppose.

Do you think SB has generally over-done the Saracens connection?

It's not really that, though, is it. It's worse than a coach forming an opinion on a player...

Serenity Boshmeister DECIDED he wanted his 8 to run INTO people instead of around them.

THAT is the level of rugby we're playing. THAT is what the world is going to see as England get humbled out of the easiest group stage in World Cup history.

IMO, this one decision on gameplan should be enough to ditch Scandalous Blowhard never mind the cost.

Agreed. I said before the squad was announced that selecting the battering rams BV and Tuilagi was not the way to go. It's back to Brian Ashton lining up some dustbins and asking the players what they represented. Apparently, they did not identify the gaps between them as the essential part of the message.

[p/d]

Let’s hope their plan isn’t to try and save face by focusing on the physicality, as we do not have the players for that. Though I expect they will work on their kicking so one trick can compete in an attacking position and up our territory dominance.