England vs Argentina

[Banquo]

I am increasingly starting to think Lewis Ludlam is the most underrated test player since the late 90s incarnation of Richard Hill. His workrate is enormous and he also reads the game very well. In the absence of Billy V he should start at 8 against Japan,with the form openside of J Willis or B Earl getting the 7 berth.

yeah you said. He still hasnt started more than 5 games in senior rugby at 8. He's a good flanker......... and Hill was never ever underrated.

[Mellsblue]

I think he means his stats which is how a player should be judged. Hill’s height and weight were always less on the RFU website than they really were.

[SixAndAHalf]

Man of the match? Has to be Farrell, who’s not put a foot wrong!

And selflessly helped to prep the team for playing with 14 men

[Danno]

Man of the match? Has to be Farrell, who’s not put a foot wrong!

And selflessly helped to prep the team for playing with 14 men

What a leader

[Mellsblue]

https://x.com/willgkelleher/status/1701 ... MV3j-SK8yQ

Borthball

[16th man]

https://x.com/willgkelleher/status/1701 ... MV3j-SK8yQ

Borthball

Again, tbf, we adapted to the situation and chose a method of scoring points that didn't need line breaks.

[Mellsblue]

https://x.com/willgkelleher/status/1701 ... MV3j-SK8yQ

Borthball

Again, tbf, we adapted to the situation and chose a method of scoring points that didn't need line breaks.

A) I’m not sure adapt is the correct word when you’ve had 8 cards in 10 matches. I’d go with ‘revert to the norm’.
B) I reckon you can manufacture more than one line break even if you decide to let Different Animal kick us to victory
C) Hammy really needs to sort a tongue in cheek emoji.

[Banquo]

https://x.com/willgkelleher/status/1701 ... MV3j-SK8yQ

Borthball

Again, tbf, we adapted to the situation and chose a method of scoring points that didn't need line breaks.

A) I’m not sure adapt is the correct word when you’ve had 8 cards in 10 matches. I’d go with ‘revert to the norm’.
B) I reckon you can manufacture more than one line break even if you decide to let Different Animal kick us to victory
C) Hammy really needs to sort a tongue in cheek emoji.

yeah, but we lost the territory stats.

[p/d]

Again, tbf, we adapted to the situation and chose a method of scoring points that didn't need line breaks.

A) I’m not sure adapt is the correct word when you’ve had 8 cards in 10 matches. I’d go with ‘revert to the norm’.
B) I reckon you can manufacture more than one line break even if you decide to let Different Animal kick us to victory
C) Hammy really needs to sort a tongue in cheek emoji.

yeah, but we lost the territory stats.

that has taken the wind out my sails.

[FKAS]

Again, tbf, we adapted to the situation and chose a method of scoring points that didn't need line breaks.

A) I’m not sure adapt is the correct word when you’ve had 8 cards in 10 matches. I’d go with ‘revert to the norm’.
B) I reckon you can manufacture more than one line break even if you decide to let Different Animal kick us to victory
C) Hammy really needs to sort a tongue in cheek emoji.

yeah, but we lost the territory stats.

Did we? Borthwick is going to be fuming.

I didn't get the Manu onto the flank thing at every attacking scrum. We didn't have him there for the defensive ones and managed ok. In attack it looked like we'd set up a number of moves to make use of Earl's pace from the base. Marchant struggled to run the Manu lines (understandably) and Earl often ended up taking into contact. It looked like Earl pick and go with Manu as a hard running option on his shoulder and Mitchell as an option out the back which if we can bring to the party when not losing the integral Many element to pushing could see some nice first phase moves.

In open play we worked some space out wide a couple of times and found very inventive ways of butchering it.

[Puja]

A) I’m not sure adapt is the correct word when you’ve had 8 cards in 10 matches. I’d go with ‘revert to the norm’.
B) I reckon you can manufacture more than one line break even if you decide to let Different Animal kick us to victory
C) Hammy really needs to sort a tongue in cheek emoji.

yeah, but we lost the territory stats.

Did we? Borthwick is going to be fuming.

I didn't get the Manu onto the flank thing at every attacking scrum. We didn't have him there for the defensive ones and managed ok. In attack it looked like we'd set up a number of moves to make use of Earl's pace from the base. Marchant struggled to run the Manu lines (understandably) and Earl often ended up taking into contact. It looked like Earl pick and go with Manu as a hard running option on his shoulder and Mitchell as an option out the back which if we can bring to the party when not losing the integral Many element to pushing could see some nice first phase moves.

In open play we worked some space out wide a couple of times and found very inventive ways of butchering it.

The difference between attacking scrums and defensive ones is that, on defending ones, the oppo is looking to secure their ball (and have the disadvantage of the hooker lifting their leg to strike) and isn't likely to be pummelling you into the ground cause they just want their ball back, rather than engaging in the wheel of scrum-penalty decisions. Plus, they may have a set play which you need all seven backs to defend.

On attacking scrums, the opposition is likely to look to drive you off and disrupt, as they've got nothing to lose, so there is more pressure coming through (plus now you have the disadvantage of having the hooker strike) and you need an 8-man shove to defend it. In addition, you are in control of the ball - there's no risk of you getting outflanked by only having 6 backs, so you can run a simple move to recycle and get your ersatz flanker back out into the backs.

In short, it's absolutely the correct call to have a back come in on attacking scrums when you're down a man. My only question is why on earth they chose Tuilagi when this clearly better option was available to them:



Puja

[Banquo]

A) I’m not sure adapt is the correct word when you’ve had 8 cards in 10 matches. I’d go with ‘revert to the norm’.
B) I reckon you can manufacture more than one line break even if you decide to let Different Animal kick us to victory
C) Hammy really needs to sort a tongue in cheek emoji.

yeah, but we lost the territory stats.

Did we? Borthwick is going to be fuming.

I didn't get the Manu onto the flank thing at every attacking scrum. We didn't have him there for the defensive ones and managed ok. In attack it looked like we'd set up a number of moves to make use of Earl's pace from the base. Marchant struggled to run the Manu lines (understandably) and Earl often ended up taking into contact. It looked like Earl pick and go with Manu as a hard running option on his shoulder and Mitchell as an option out the back which if we can bring to the party when not losing the integral Many element to pushing could see some nice first phase moves.

In open play we worked some space out wide a couple of times and found very inventive ways of butchering it.

Yeah 46-54.

What Puja said on Manu.

[16th man]

In open play we worked some space out wide a couple of times and found very inventive ways of butchering it.

Oh god, you've reminded me of Marchant's pass.

[Banquo]

In open play we worked some space out wide a couple of times and found very inventive ways of butchering it.

Oh god, you've reminded me of Marchant's pass.

If its the same one...that was a series of mistakes ....Ford was a little slow to assess and straighten, so was a bit lateral, then missed Manu to turn a 5 on 2 into a 4 on 2, Marchant slowed/Daly was flat and the moment was gone. Poor all round.

Anyway, shoot him

[Puja]

In open play we worked some space out wide a couple of times and found very inventive ways of butchering it.

Oh god, you've reminded me of Marchant's pass.

If its the same one...that was a series of mistakes ....Ford was a little slow to assess and straighten, so was a bit lateral, then missed Manu to turn a 5 on 2 into a 4 on 2, Marchant slowed/Daly was flat and the moment was gone. Poor all round.

Anyway, shoot him

Would disagree - Ford drew the defenders with the threat of Manu and then put in a good pass for Marchant to run onto. All Marchant had to do was pass it into Daly's path to give him a 2-on-1 with May on the outside and he passed behind him. I'm a massive Marchant fan, but that was just an abject skills failure on his part.

Puja

[Banquo]

Oh god, you've reminded me of Marchant's pass.

If its the same one...that was a series of mistakes ....Ford was a little slow to assess and straighten, so was a bit lateral, then missed Manu to turn a 5 on 2 into a 4 on 2, Marchant slowed/Daly was flat and the moment was gone. Poor all round.

Anyway, shoot him

Would disagree - Ford drew the defenders with the threat of Manu and then put in a good pass for Marchant to run onto. All Marchant had to do was pass it into Daly's path to give him a 2-on-1 with May on the outside and he passed behind him. I'm a massive Marchant fan, but that was just an abject skills failure on his part.

Puja

we'll have to disagree, certainly about the miss pass, which was too early and turned it from 5 v 2 to 4 v 2. Daly was certainly flat to Marchant as well. It was also lateral- defence slid across easily. I would say all of Ford, Marchant and Daly made little mistakes.

(I will watch it back- only saw it once plus replay)

[Puja]

(I will watch it back- only saw it once plus replay)

Same, so I reserve the right to be wrong too. Can't seem to find it on any of the highlights - if you find a video of it online, please do share.

Puja

[Banquo]

(I will watch it back- only saw it once plus replay)

Same, so I reserve the right to be wrong too. Can't seem to find it on any of the highlights - if you find a video of it online, please do share.

Puja

Just watched it back on the old Sky Q.

George passes well to Ford off a turnover, Ford has four men outside him, and two argentinian defenders in his field of vision. There is another Argentinian defender 'inside' him, to his left who shouldn't be even in consideration. Ford is quite slow to assess imo, accelerating a bit after he has taken it, and runs fractionally sideways before an early miss pass; his running line and timing of pass fail to fix either the inside defender (who can then run behind on a covering line) nor the original first defender who just drifts out with his fellow defender; 5 on 2 becomes 3 on 2 with covering defender now in the mix, and defenders sliding across. Marchant is still some way from the defenders and does straighten the line up....but you are right he botched the pass, because Daly was deep enough for not to be at his body, he slows, defence have drifted and that's that. Ford should have set it up better imo, straightened, not miss passed, or miss pass a fraction later....but Marchant should also have done better.

[Puja]

(I will watch it back- only saw it once plus replay)

Same, so I reserve the right to be wrong too. Can't seem to find it on any of the highlights - if you find a video of it online, please do share.

Puja

Just watched it back on the old Sky Q.

George passes well to Ford off a turnover, Ford has four men outside him, and two argentinian defenders in his field of vision. There is another Argentinian defender 'inside' him, to his left who shouldn't be even in consideration. Ford is quite slow to assess imo, accelerating a bit after he has taken it, and runs fractionally sideways before an early miss pass; his running line and timing of pass fail to fix either the inside defender (who can then run behind on a covering line) nor the original first defender who just drifts out with his fellow defender; 5 on 2 becomes 4 on 2 with covering defender now in the mix, and defenders sliding across. Marchant is still some way from the defenders and does straighten the line up....but you are right he botched the pass, because Daly was deep enough for not to be at his body, he slows, defence have drifted and that's that. Ford should have set it up better imo, straightened, not miss passed, or miss pass a fraction later....but Marchant should also have done better.

What minute is it?

Puja

[Banquo]

Same, so I reserve the right to be wrong too. Can't seem to find it on any of the highlights - if you find a video of it online, please do share.

Puja

Just watched it back on the old Sky Q.

George passes well to Ford off a turnover, Ford has four men outside him, and two argentinian defenders in his field of vision. There is another Argentinian defender 'inside' him, to his left who shouldn't be even in consideration. Ford is quite slow to assess imo, accelerating a bit after he has taken it, and runs fractionally sideways before an early miss pass; his running line and timing of pass fail to fix either the inside defender (who can then run behind on a covering line) nor the original first defender who just drifts out with his fellow defender; 5 on 2 becomes 4 on 2 with covering defender now in the mix, and defenders sliding across. Marchant is still some way from the defenders and does straighten the line up....but you are right he botched the pass, because Daly was deep enough for not to be at his body, he slows, defence have drifted and that's that. Ford should have set it up better imo, straightened, not miss passed, or miss pass a fraction later....but Marchant should also have done better.

What minute is it?

Puja

31.35 ish I think

[FKAS]

Probably the collective shock that the attack was actually working. I think we could have largely rescued the situation had Daly not forced the last pass and just taken the ball in and recycled. We were in the Puma 22 and had momentum. There's was something similar later in the game when we tried to force the move rather than just take the territory and momentum and go again.

[Stom]

Probably the collective shock that the attack was actually working. I think we could have largely rescued the situation had Daly not forced the last pass and just taken the ball in and recycled. We were in the Puma 22 and had momentum. There's was something similar later in the game when we tried to force the move rather than just take the territory and momentum and go again.

Oh, we're hideously impatient. As shown by all the bloody kicks by Earl. It's like we must do the attack in one phase or it's over.

[Oakboy]

Probably the collective shock that the attack was actually working. I think we could have largely rescued the situation had Daly not forced the last pass and just taken the ball in and recycled. We were in the Puma 22 and had momentum. There's was something similar later in the game when we tried to force the move rather than just take the territory and momentum and go again.

Oh, we're hideously impatient. As shown by all the bloody kicks by Earl. It's like we must do the attack in one phase or it's over.

Composure comes with confidence, doesn't it? Maybe, the win, a man short against the biggest threat in the group, will give the coaches some collective self-belief to work with - if they (the coaches) are good enough.

[Banquo]

Probably the collective shock that the attack was actually working. I think we could have largely rescued the situation had Daly not forced the last pass and just taken the ball in and recycled. We were in the Puma 22 and had momentum. There's was something similar later in the game when we tried to force the move rather than just take the territory and momentum and go again.

I agree on Daly. But it should have easily created a chance on the outside.

[Mikey Brown]

Probably the collective shock that the attack was actually working. I think we could have largely rescued the situation had Daly not forced the last pass and just taken the ball in and recycled. We were in the Puma 22 and had momentum. There's was something similar later in the game when we tried to force the move rather than just take the territory and momentum and go again.

Oh, we're hideously impatient. As shown by all the bloody kicks by Earl. It's like we must do the attack in one phase or it's over.

It must be confusing getting told to play 8 and use your pace, then every time you make a break off a scrum all your team mates just evaporate.

Terrible kick though nonetheless.