Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23

[Epaminondas Pules]

Probably been covered previously but Watson listed in the England squad as unattached.

[FKAS]

Probably been covered previously but Watson listed in the England squad as unattached.

New deal not starting until after the world cup I presume. Hopefully with Tigers.

[Which Tyler]

Du Toit not needed at the RWC by South Africa!

It would make sense for him to come over to Bath anyway, even if he also takes a 6 week break in there too.
He can get to know the town, Farleigh, and his new team-mates.
He can be nice and close (and training/playing) if there's an injury.

Contract may or may not need to be reworked, but there are certainly advantages to coming over, without even going into showing willing to his new employers and fans, helping the club whilst Stuart is away (assuming England make at least the QFs)

[Mellsblue]

In transfer news at the other end of the scale:

[Mellsblue]

Bedford have their first preseason match this evening and the first clues of which Saints players they’ll hand fit the season emerge:

‘As well as the core Blues squad, Rayer will be able to call upon five exciting Northampton Saints prospects who integrated into training for the first time on Tuesday. Aston Gradwick-Light and Jake Garside are familiar faces to Goldington Road, while Reuben Logan, Will Glister and Ewan Baker are also chosen.‘

[Which Tyler]

GJVV staying at Bath after all

https://www.bathrugby.com/news/gj-van-v ... bath-rugby

[Margin_Walker]

Latest on LI players on the eve of the new season. Encouraging that most players have something lined up. Ruiz is Franc ebound, forget which club, just not announced. Loader is in SA, again just not announced. Interesting to see Green and Moore-Aiono show up on a pre season line up for Saints today as guest players. Suggestion in TRP that green has an injury cover contract for the RWC. Lots of academy lads heading into the BUCS pathway. Goodrick-Clark rumoured to Ealing a while ago, but it's gone silent since.

Ben Atkins - Rams (ND1)
Matt Cornish - Ealing
Agustín Creevy - Sale
Ignacio Ruiz
Lovejoy Chawatama - Harlequins
Luke Green
Ciaran Parker - Cardiff
Danilo Fischetti - Zebre
Will Goodrick-Clarke
Ollie Hoskins - Saracens
Josh Caulfield - Bristol
Adam Coleman - Bordeaux
Chunya Munga - Northampton
Api Ratuniyarawa - Bayonne
Ed Scragg - Scarlets
Josh Basham
Ben Donnell - Gloucester
Jack Cooke - Landsdowne (AIL)
So'otala Fa'aso'o - Perpignan
Juan Martín González - Saracens
Izaia Moore-Aiono
Tom Pearson - Northampton
Matt Rogerson (c)- Leicester
Josh Smart - Ampthill
Caolan Englefield - Gloucester
Joe Powell - Leicester
Ben White - Toulon
Jacob Atkins - Rovigo
Paddy Jackson - Lyon
Rory Jennings - Newcastle
Tom Hitchcock - Ealing
Benhard Janse van Rensburg - Bristol
Will Joseph - Harlequins
Luca Morisi
Eddie Poolman
Matt Williams - Rosslyn Park (ND1)
Ben Loader
Lucio Cinti - Saracens
Henry Arundell - Racing 92
Kyle Rowe - Glasgow
Tom Collins - Ealing
Michael Dykes - Gloucester

Calum Scott - Rams (ND1)
Joe Vajner - University of Exeter (BUCS)
Afolabi Fasogbon - Gloucester
Tarek Haffar - Northampton
Mikey Summerfield - Bath
Chandler Cunningham-South - Harlequins
Jarlath Gleeson - Lyon
Lucas Brooke - University of Exeter (BUCS)
Ollie Allan - Leicester
Monty Bradbury - Gloucester
Conor Cross - Loughborough (BUCS)
George Makepeace-Cubitt - Rams (ND1)
Jake Shortland
Jack Walsh - Cardiff Met (BUCS)
Alexander Harmes
Ralph McEachran - Sale
Rory Taylor - Gloucester
Finn Worley Brady
Toby Maddock
Charlie Moss

[Danno]

How has no-one picked up Ben Loader?

Hope we give CCS and Will Joseph a decent development. Giving Dombrandt some competition for his place won't hurt but I'll be interested to see where he settles in the pack.

[Margin_Walker]

Loader's in SA.

Signed for the Stormers by all accounts. Just not announced yet.

CCS and Joseph both have the kind of physical attributes you can't coach. Will be interesting to see how they go.

[twitchy]

Baxter has made Ethan Roots (23 year old signed over the summer) the club captain. Apparently he is very capable of this but it really shows where the club is at.

[Puja]

Baxter has made Ethan Roots (23 year old signed over the summer) the club captain. Apparently he is very capable of this but it really shows where the club is at.

Had never heard of him before now. Read a few articles of Baxter singing his praises (apparently EQP as well!), so he's apparently well-regarded.

It's probably a good approach from them. Exeter have lost so many of their culture setters and don't have the money to splash out on big names to replace them, so they're probably as well trying to build from a core of young players and build up a new Exeter environment and clique.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Let’s hope he’s not a fan of, erm, unique try celebrations.

[Mikey Brown]

Let’s hope he’s not a fan of, erm, unique try celebrations.

How do you think he got the captaincy so quick? They call him Ethan fast hands.

[Oakboy]

Let’s hope he’s not a fan of, erm, unique try celebrations.

Tries to celebrate? That would be good.

[Danno]

Culture setters + Exeter is rarely a good term of phrase.

[Mikey Brown]

Can’t see the full article. Anyone looked in to the details of this?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... x-nations/

Seems kind of weird to start making such arbitrary exemptions to the existing rules.

[Epaminondas Pules]

If they’re sensible they’ll bin this rule completely! Let them play in France!

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah. Fuck the premiership. Let it crumble.

[FKAS]

It's in keeping with the exemptions that Wasps and Wuss players had. Well I think he should get next summer as well.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Yeah. Fuck the premiership. Let it crumble.

Arundell and Willis already there. Maybe lose Itoje. Otherwise it’ll be 30 somethings like Daly or Billy. And of course other players will come through. Those out there of a decent age will learn and experience more of top line rugby. And not be flogged to death.

[Puja]

Yeah. Fuck the premiership. Let it crumble.

Arundell and Willis already there. Maybe lose Itoje. Otherwise it’ll be 30 somethings like Daly or Billy. And of course other players will come through. Those out there of a decent age will learn and experience more of top line rugby. And not be flogged to death.

Why would it only be 30-somethings if we remove the bar on playing for England? Wouldn't French clubs just buy up any talented players they fancied?

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Yeah. Fuck the premiership. Let it crumble.

Arundell and Willis already there. Maybe lose Itoje. Otherwise it’ll be 30 somethings like Daly or Billy. And of course other players will come through. Those out there of a decent age will learn and experience more of top line rugby. And not be flogged to death.

Why would it only be 30-somethings if we remove the bar on playing for England? Wouldn't French clubs just buy up any talented players they fancied?

Puja

We're not exactly awash with top level talent. Most of the big 'names' are heading towards the latter stages. Farrell, Ford, Daly, May, Tuilagi, Sinckler, Marler, George, Vunipola, Youngs, Care, and that's before you add in IF players want to go there. And it also frees up salary cap and places. I don't think it will be armageddon if a few players head to France. And look at Willis. Having a fab time out there. Mercer was the same. Willis T the same. They've grown as players out there, accepting that Willis and Willis was club circumstance that drove their moves.

It is somewhat harder to get selected playing out there as you're not in the coaches eye week in week out, so for a younger talent with ambitions with England it's not a simple choice of money.

At the end of the day we don't know what would happen, but I'm not seeing it as a hugely damaging thing.

[Puja]

Arundell and Willis already there. Maybe lose Itoje. Otherwise it’ll be 30 somethings like Daly or Billy. And of course other players will come through. Those out there of a decent age will learn and experience more of top line rugby. And not be flogged to death.

Why would it only be 30-somethings if we remove the bar on playing for England? Wouldn't French clubs just buy up any talented players they fancied?

Puja

We're not exactly awash with top level talent. Most of the big 'names' are heading towards the latter stages. Farrell, Ford, Daly, May, Tuilagi, Sinckler, Marler, George, Vunipola, Youngs, Care, and that's before you add in IF players want to go there. And it also frees up salary cap and places. I don't think it will be armageddon if a few players head to France. And look at Willis. Having a fab time out there. Mercer was the same. Willis T the same. They've grown as players out there, accepting that Willis and Willis was club circumstance that drove their moves.

It is somewhat harder to get selected playing out there as you're not in the coaches eye week in week out, so for a younger talent with ambitions with England it's not a simple choice of money.

At the end of the day we don't know what would happen, but I'm not seeing it as a hugely damaging thing.

It's hard to state how heavily I disagree with you here!

Let's go at this in order:

It's easy to say that "we're not awash with high level talent" but you're proposing that we let what little we do have leave the country. That will reduce the quality of the domestic game and provide a lower level proving ground for youngsters coming through. And far from reducing salary cap pressure, it would increase wage inflation - at present, Leicester don't have to compete with French money to re-sign Steward, because his EPS money makes up the difference and he can't get that in France. Allow him to have his cake and eat it, then suddenly, we have to compete directly with the French contract offers. Even if players don't want to go, the threat will still push up wages (and a lot *will* go - it's a short career and they need to maximise earnings).

Also, the argument of, "Not many will be wanted" is specious because there are 28 pro teams in France, several awash with money and, while France's 2nd string is better than our first XV, most of our internationals would be of interest to them. This isn't a case of being cocky - this is noting that if Nowell and Ribbans are of interest to French clubs, they'd probably also be interested in a few others.

I won't deny your point that players can oftimes improve with going abroad and, if we were just looking for a short-term boost for the England team, it would likely be best to lift the ban and have 4-5 years of good times. However, the reduction in quality in the Prem would mean lower revenues - crowds won't turn up for a second rate competition and TNT would certainly offer a lower tv deal if all the star names were gone. It would also increase the pressure on wages. More clubs would go bust and the Prem would get weaker and weaker, making it harder to bring through young players to a decent enough quality, because there wouldn't be a high enough level of competition.

The domestic game in England is already in trouble - I can think of no better way to give it a final push over the edge than allowing players to be get both French and EPS money.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Puja, are you solid on no players based outside of England being available for the national side? I used to be but the salary cap makes that policy self-defeating, IMO.

Also, as soon as there is evidence that Twickenham cannot be sold out the RFU will get panicky, not the best scenario for the game outside the premiership. The Fiji warm-up might just be a blip, hopefully, with RWC success beyond the QF reviving interest. On the back of our kicking tactics being booed and Jones proving his ineptitude with Australia, though, might all-round public support be on a knife-edge?

I'd suggest that, regardless of RWC performance (short of winning it), there will be no patience with SB/the RFU if a clearly-routed path to improvement is not obvious immediately in the new 4-year cycle. Any top player of 28 or under not available for selection will not be publicly acceptable, I suspect.

As a principle I deplore that. Practically, though, as long as a salary cap is in place, I don't think it will work. Our international XV is just too important looking forwards - in PR and financial terms.

[Puja]

Puja, are you solid on no players based outside of England being available for the national side? I used to be but the salary cap makes that policy self-defeating, IMO.

Also, as soon as there is evidence that Twickenham cannot be sold out the RFU will get panicky, not the best scenario for the game outside the premiership. The Fiji warm-up might just be a blip, hopefully, with RWC success beyond the QF reviving interest. On the back of our kicking tactics being booed and Jones proving his ineptitude with Australia, though, might all-round public support be on a knife-edge?

I'd suggest that, regardless of RWC performance (short of winning it), there will be no patience with SB/the RFU if a clearly-routed path to improvement is not obvious immediately in the new 4-year cycle. Any top player of 28 or under not available for selection will not be publicly acceptable, I suspect.

As a principle I deplore that. Practically, though, as long as a salary cap is in place, I don't think it will work. Our international XV is just too important looking forwards - in PR and financial terms.

I absolutely am. Quite apart from being a Leicester fan as well as an England one, and thus having no desire to see the Premiership gutted and left a hollow shell of former glories, I also think it's best for English rugby long-term to try and have our own strong domestic game. It wasn't so long ago (okay, so 15 years or so, but still) that our clubs were the financial powerhouse of the European game and there is no reason why that shouldn't be our ambition again. The 10 team Premiership and the revised calendar will help with that and we should be looking to build, not accept a place as minnows.

I don't think the salary cap is an excuse as well. The money in France is not so much better that it outweighs getting EPS money (not to mention the image and reputation boost from being an international), and it's notable that the only players going at present are those who were on the absolute fringes and couldn't rely on EPS money.

I do take your point about needing England to be successful though, but I would say that's why it's important to hold the line and deem no player exceptional (apart from short term for refugees from bankrupt clubs). If the rule leaks and we grant copious exceptions, then everyone will consider themselves exceptional and want to take the money. If it is watertight, then people will return - cf. TWillis and Mercer. We can survive 2 seasons without Marchant, JWillis, and Ribbans quite easily, and if we show resolve, they will return.

tl;dr - I don't think losing access to a few fringe players and JWillis will be the make or break of the England team over the next couple of years. If we fail, there'll be plenty of other reasons other than the unavailability of 3-4 players, and it'll probably be our own fault.

Puja