England vs Samoa - Sat 4.45pm

[Mellsblue]

We’re wrong. Dallaglio thinks it’s an exciting backline.

[p/d]

Then, I owe Puja an apology

[Banquo]

On Arundell..remember his 10 mins v oz away in a couple of tests. Exactly. It’s not just 5 tries v Chile.

On Faz..... ffs. He’s just served yet another ban for shyte tackling. He’s not got quicker. He’s not a better passer. Just....baffling that he’s again being picked in a position he only plays in for England.

[p/d]

On Arundell..remember his 10 mins v oz away in a couple of tests. Exactly. It’s not just 5 tries v Chile.

On Faz..... ffs. He’s just served yet another ban for shyte tackling. He’s not got quicker. He’s not a better passer. Just....baffling that he’s again being picked in a position he only plays in for England.

That shouldn't be a problem in the future. After 10yrs of playing alongside Wigglesworth he can finally improve his technique under the tutelage of England's new 'skills coach'. Go team England!!

[morepork]

You savagely self-depreciating pack of cynics.

[Puja]

Imagine if McKenzie was English.............he wouldn't make the bench

And this is the kind of hyperbole I'm referencing. Henry Arundell is 20 and has played 23 games in total for London Irish, which the majority were either second string Premiership Cup or cameos from the bench. And yet, when we're outraged that he isn't starting for England, the comparator that is reached for is a 28 year old with 148 Super Rugby games under his belt.

Puja

[Puja]

I can't help crossing fingers for a few strategic injuries.

Jack Willis has just been ruled out of the RWC. Look what you did!

Puja

[Spiffy]

On Arundell..remember his 10 mins v oz away in a couple of tests. Exactly. It’s not just 5 tries v Chile.

On Faz..... ffs. He’s just served yet another ban for shyte tackling. He’s not got quicker. He’s not a better passer. Just....baffling that he’s again being picked in a position he only plays in for England.

Yes. But he does not pick himself. The coaching staff are a bunch of clueless twaats with their heads firmly lodged up their fundaments and no rugby perception. It's already evident that Severely Bollocksed is no better than Eddie Jones and is a complete waste of time and space in advancing English rugby.

[Mellsblue]

Imagine if McKenzie was English.............he wouldn't make the bench

And this is the kind of hyperbole I'm referencing. Henry Arundell is 20 and has played 23 games in total for London Irish, which the majority were either second string Premiership Cup or cameos from the bench. And yet, when we're outraged that he isn't starting for England, the comparator that is reached for is a 28 year old with 148 Super Rugby games under his belt.

Puja

False equivalence. It was more skillset of player and mindset of coach than a direct player quality vs player quality comparison.

[Mr Mwenda]

Much has been said that I agree with. I find the need to integrate Farrell pretty baffling.

A few observations: Marchant is overrated on here. I wouldn't have moved him to the wing but you'd think we were talking about world class player. TWillis and Pearson appear to be the kings across the water now. When they're selected and mediocre in a mediocre squad whose nuxt?

[Mikey Brown]

I’m not sure anyone is under any illusions there are they? Marchant has hit the heady heights of being a good, capable defender and benefiting from a centre pairing featuring two (!) centres.

Willis seems appealing because we only have a 7.5 (or two) and whatever you call an 8 who probably should have transitioned to the front row by now.

[p/d]

Imagine if McKenzie was English.............he wouldn't make the bench

And this is the kind of hyperbole I'm referencing. Henry Arundell is 20 and has played 23 games in total for London Irish, which the majority were either second string Premiership Cup or cameos from the bench. And yet, when we're outraged that he isn't starting for England, the comparator that is reached for is a 28 year old with 148 Super Rugby games under his belt.

Puja

False equivalence. It was more skillset of player and mindset of coach than a direct player quality vs player quality comparison.

Exactly. It is the back line/bench cover and the mindset for selecting it that has raised the question on why a player with those qualities is overlooked. Unless, of course, they didn’t realise he had so few games for LI under his belt when naming the squad.

[p/d]

Much has been said that I agree with. I find the need to integrate Farrell pretty baffling.

A few observations: Marchant is overrated on here. I wouldn't have moved him to the wing but you'd think we were talking about world class player. TWillis and Pearson appear to be the kings across the water now. When they're selected and mediocre in a mediocre squad whose nuxt?

Agree. The problem is his light shines brighter when those alongside him begin to dim

[Margin_Walker]

Imagine if McKenzie was English.............he wouldn't make the bench

And this is the kind of hyperbole I'm referencing. Henry Arundell is 20 and has played 23 games in total for London Irish, which the majority were either second string Premiership Cup or cameos from the bench. And yet, when we're outraged that he isn't starting for England, the comparator that is reached for is a 28 year old with 148 Super Rugby games under his belt.

Puja

I guess the counterpoint is that he's a 20 year old with a highlight reel like this in just over a thousand minutes of rugby



You've bothered to pick him in a world cup squad where instead you end up with Johnny May (not in the original squad and dining out on credit in the bank) and Marchant (a decent 13). It shouldn't matter, as Samoa aren't up to much, but it's just a wasted opportunity to try and find some dynamism in an England backline crying out for it.

Re the LI thing, he was absolutely first choice at the start of last season before his injury. That took a long time to get over and he was pretty much straight into England camp after that.

Not even saying it had to be him, more that there are guys (Murley for example) that have been doing brilliant things this season domestically who really should be in the conversation here.

[Mellsblue]

Much has been said that I agree with. I find the need to integrate Farrell pretty baffling.

A few observations: Marchant is overrated on here. I wouldn't have moved him to the wing but you'd think we were talking about world class player. TWillis and Pearson appear to be the kings across the water now. When they're selected and mediocre in a mediocre squad whose nuxt?

It’s weird that wanting possibly the most exciting/talented player in the country to get some game time/experience at a World Cup, in a game we should win fairly easily and in place of someone playing out of position/past their best, and discussing the merits of two players in contention to replace an injured player has, for some, become us deciding all three are on course to win world player of the year in 2024.

[p/d]

Much has been said that I agree with. I find the need to integrate Farrell pretty baffling.

A few observations: Marchant is overrated on here. I wouldn't have moved him to the wing but you'd think we were talking about world class player. TWillis and Pearson appear to be the kings across the water now. When they're selected and mediocre in a mediocre squad whose nuxt?

….on course to win world player of the year in 2024.

Don’t you think the 3 match ban might work against Owen?

[Oakboy]

On Arundell..remember his 10 mins v oz away in a couple of tests. Exactly. It’s not just 5 tries v Chile.

On Faz..... ffs. He’s just served yet another ban for shyte tackling. He’s not got quicker. He’s not a better passer. Just....baffling that he’s again being picked in a position he only plays in for England.

Yes. But he does not pick himself. The coaching staff are a bunch of clueless twaats with their heads firmly lodged up their fundaments and no rugby perception. It's already evident that Severely Bollocksed is no better than Eddie Jones and is a complete waste of time and space in advancing English rugby.

One minor point that confirms your view is the announcement that Farrell will take over the kicking tee. On what grounds was that decision taken? Reportedly, not on recent form (Ford clearly wins) but on past 'glory' and talk of records.

One other small mention in the DT was SB considering replacing Willis with a back. Murley?

[Puja]

Much has been said that I agree with. I find the need to integrate Farrell pretty baffling.

A few observations: Marchant is overrated on here. I wouldn't have moved him to the wing but you'd think we were talking about world class player. TWillis and Pearson appear to be the kings across the water now. When they're selected and mediocre in a mediocre squad whose nuxt?

It’s weird that wanting possibly the most exciting/talented player in the country to get some game time/experience at a World Cup, in a game we should win fairly easily and in place of someone playing out of position/past their best, and discussing the merits of two players in contention to replace an injured player has, for some, become us deciding all three are on course to win world player of the year in 2024.

Personally I find it weird that, "I think the punditry and casual fan adulation of Arundell is going over the top after one game against Chile," has morphed into me agreeing with Dallaglio about this backline selection.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Much has been said that I agree with. I find the need to integrate Farrell pretty baffling.

A few observations: Marchant is overrated on here. I wouldn't have moved him to the wing but you'd think we were talking about world class player. TWillis and Pearson appear to be the kings across the water now. When they're selected and mediocre in a mediocre squad whose nuxt?

It’s weird that wanting possibly the most exciting/talented player in the country to get some game time/experience at a World Cup, in a game we should win fairly easily and in place of someone playing out of position/past their best, and discussing the merits of two players in contention to replace an injured player has, for some, become us deciding all three are on course to win world player of the year in 2024.

Personally I find it weird that, "I think the punditry and casual fan adulation of Arundell is going over the top after one game against Chile," has morphed into me agreeing with Dallaglio about this backline selection.

Puja

Serves you right after blaming me for Willis's injury!!!

[Mikey Brown]

Much has been said that I agree with. I find the need to integrate Farrell pretty baffling.

A few observations: Marchant is overrated on here. I wouldn't have moved him to the wing but you'd think we were talking about world class player. TWillis and Pearson appear to be the kings across the water now. When they're selected and mediocre in a mediocre squad whose nuxt?

….on course to win world player of the year in 2024.

Don’t you think the 3 match ban might work against Owen?

It’s just one more bit of adversity for him to come back from.

[Puja]

One other small mention in the DT was SB considering replacing Willis with a back. Murley?

I'm not sure I see a huge amount of point in replacing him with anyone - it's not like they'll have a chance to work themselves into reckoning for a quarter final place. It'll just be an additional tacklebag holder.

Puja

[Beasties]

Much has been said that I agree with. I find the need to integrate Farrell pretty baffling.

A few observations: Marchant is overrated on here. I wouldn't have moved him to the wing but you'd think we were talking about world class player. TWillis and Pearson appear to be the kings across the water now. When they're selected and mediocre in a mediocre squad whose nuxt?

It’s weird that wanting possibly the most exciting/talented player in the country to get some game time/experience at a World Cup, in a game we should win fairly easily and in place of someone playing out of position/past their best, and discussing the merits of two players in contention to replace an injured player has, for some, become us deciding all three are on course to win world player of the year in 2024.

Personally I find it weird that, "I think the punditry and casual fan adulation of Arundell is going over the top after one game against Chile," has morphed into me agreeing with Dallaglio about this backline selection.

Puja

(Not particularly having a go at you Puja) but has anyone on here particularly praised Arundell to high heaven? Or are we all just a bit beyond hacked off that we’ve reverted to the stodgiest possible backline from players available? It seems like we’ve been trying this particular experiment for many years now, and are pretty sure of the outcome mainly due to repetitive evidence. Is there anyone on this forum who actually believes we’ll get past the semi-final with this backline?

For my part, I’m not utterly terrified of trying a (highly) promising 20 year old in a match we’re nailed on to win. I retain the right though to be utterly terrified of having to watch this same experiment yet again. I’ll be glad when the WC’s over frankly. The faint glimmers are being smothered.

[Mellsblue]

Much has been said that I agree with. I find the need to integrate Farrell pretty baffling.

A few observations: Marchant is overrated on here. I wouldn't have moved him to the wing but you'd think we were talking about world class player. TWillis and Pearson appear to be the kings across the water now. When they're selected and mediocre in a mediocre squad whose nuxt?

It’s weird that wanting possibly the most exciting/talented player in the country to get some game time/experience at a World Cup, in a game we should win fairly easily and in place of someone playing out of position/past their best, and discussing the merits of two players in contention to replace an injured player has, for some, become us deciding all three are on course to win world player of the year in 2024.

Personally I find it weird that, "I think the punditry and casual fan adulation of Arundell is going over the top after one game against Chile," has morphed into me agreeing with Dallaglio about this backline selection.

Puja

Not sure whether this is a joke or not.

[FKAS]

How many England players get in the NZ 23?

You could make a good arguement for the front row. After that you might be struggling a bit.

Was more a point of style though, as phenomenally skillful as DMac is his defensive ability and game management are not as strong as the other options and it holds him back. If he takes another sabbatical then a spell in France might both help the game management element and boost his bank balance.

Or it could be that he’s up against world class players to make the team.

In other words he's not as strong as the options in front of him. Right there in the original comment.

The All Blacks do shift around the backline to squeeze their best players in though. He could yet be reinvented as a winger.

[Oakboy]

It’s weird that wanting possibly the most exciting/talented player in the country to get some game time/experience at a World Cup, in a game we should win fairly easily and in place of someone playing out of position/past their best, and discussing the merits of two players in contention to replace an injured player has, for some, become us deciding all three are on course to win world player of the year in 2024.

Personally I find it weird that, "I think the punditry and casual fan adulation of Arundell is going over the top after one game against Chile," has morphed into me agreeing with Dallaglio about this backline selection.

Puja

Not sure whether this is a joke or not.

??? the backline? adualtion of arundel? Puja generally? Puja agreeing with Dallaglio? Dallaglio generally?