QF v Fiji

[Banquo]

To be fair I didn't realise Underhill has only played 73 mins in one game for Bath so far. I was thinking that big tackler and Huge work rate might well be good for forty mins Vs Fiji and then sub him for Lawes.

I'm not a big fan of that back three but Steward did play quite well Vs Samoa and Smith gives us two creative players that gets the most from our attack. It's a bit like the Kiwis under Foster trying to shove the players that get the most from the team into the side irrespective of whether it's not in their best positions.

Steward on the wing doesn't quite compare with Barrett at 15 tbh.

I was thinking more that Smith was akin to Barrett. Quick and attacking minded playmaker who's game management skills are sometimes questioned. Don't want to lose his influence on the team but also don't want him to be in the 10 shirt controlling matters.

The ABs converted Jordie Barrett from 15 to centre and shoved Will Jordan to the wing (admittedly he's well equipped to be there with his pace through it doesn't allow him to play his best) to accommodate both in the starting line up.

Barrett played at 15 before the ABs put him there.

Conversion is the key, not shoehorning. They had a plan, and the individuals they convert are skills wise and physically suited to the role. Unlike Steward at wing, and possibly (though we don’t know) Smith at 15. I also remember the kiwis wrecking Cullens career

[Mellsblue]

Steward on the wing is just (well, should be) a non starter. No idea why everyone is so enamoured with Smith at 15. If we want our second playmaker there then I’d pick Malins, at least he’s actually played there for more than double digit minutes. If we’re going to accept that our defence can’t hold out if the oppo can string more than five phases together then let’s just go balls out and pick Arundell there. Personally, I’d stick with Steward at 15, limited as he is.

I mean sure, that's the rational response, but frankly I'm just bored of watching England.

Malins is theoretically a nifty, playmaking 15 but he's probably got less time at fullback than Smith in the last couple of seasons since he was (occasionally) playing there for Bristol. I don't get the sense he would have been training there. Selecting Steward on the wing is more just accepting that the wingers will only ever be crashing up bad ball or chasing kicks.

Just when you think English rugby can’t get any more depressing you post this dollop of harsh truth.
If you look through the squad it’s so bare in places which is a position England should never be in:
Hooker - George, a talented but callow converted centre and a bloke Slow Backlover doesn’t trust to do anything more than hold a tackle bag.
Lock - Itoje, a raw but talented Chessum, a bloke who has moved back and forth between lock and blindside in his two pro seasons, and a Saffa with a bad back who’s off to France
no8 - a way past his best Billy and a flanker
Scrumhalf - a bloke who wasn’t in the original squad, the oldest back in England’s history and St Benny.
Centres - a temporarily converted 10/permanently converted 6, Tuilagi who is too slow and erratic in d to now play 13, a bloke off to France and Lawrence who just doesn’t seem to be trusted.
Wing - Grandpa May - who has admitted that he won’t play for England after this World Cup - an uber talented but callow 15, and a bloke who’ll be second choice 15 at Bristol next season. Edit: oh yeah, and Daly who has been so forgettable this tournament that I, well, forgot about him.
Fullback - a bloke with the athletic profile of a rangy blindside who can catch a high ball and then nobody other than a flyhalf who hadn’t played 15 until 10 days ago.
Fml.

[Mellsblue]

Steward on the wing doesn't quite compare with Barrett at 15 tbh.

I was thinking more that Smith was akin to Barrett. Quick and attacking minded playmaker who's game management skills are sometimes questioned. Don't want to lose his influence on the team but also don't want him to be in the 10 shirt controlling matters.

The ABs converted Jordie Barrett from 15 to centre and shoved Will Jordan to the wing (admittedly he's well equipped to be there with his pace through it doesn't allow him to play his best) to accommodate both in the starting line up.

Barrett played at 15 before the ABs put him there.

Conversion is the key, not shoehorning. They had a plan, and the individuals they convert are skills wise and physically suited to the role. Unlike Steward at wing, and possibly (though we don’t know) Smith at 15. I also remember the kiwis wrecking Cullens career

Yep, they did it because they wanted to not because they’ve backed themselves in to a corner and started to panic.

[loudnconfident]

It'll be an unchanged side.

SB will say that the guys were rusty after a week off and resting for the Chile game, while the captain just needs game time to come good.

No drama. We'll be just fine.......

Wont we?

Yes - we'll beat Fiji with an unchanged side. Then lose comprehensively in the SFs. But they can claim a good WC as we reached the semis, and everyone involved can get their bonuses.

[Oakboy]

An England fan waking up from a three-year coma would be horrified to read this thread. Basically, we have only a handful of players worth selecting and watching our matches is more ordeal than pleasure. Future prospects are no better than mediocre.

[Banquo]

An England fan waking up from a three-year coma would be horrified to read this thread. Basically, we have only a handful of players worth selecting and watching our matches is more ordeal than pleasure. Future prospects are no better than mediocre.

14 (?) of the 23 in RWC 2019 final are still in this squad, and hardly any are playing as well as they were then. At least two others would be there but for injury as well. That tells you something or other.

[fivepointer]

An England fan waking up from a three-year coma would be horrified to read this thread. Basically, we have only a handful of players worth selecting and watching our matches is more ordeal than pleasure. Future prospects are no better than mediocre.

Things could be worse. We could still be picking someone at 12 who isnt up to it and making him our captain as well.

Oh......ah

yeah, its shit.

[Mikey Brown]

Steward on the wing is just (well, should be) a non starter. No idea why everyone is so enamoured with Smith at 15. If we want our second playmaker there then I’d pick Malins, at least he’s actually played there for more than double digit minutes. If we’re going to accept that our defence can’t hold out if the oppo can string more than five phases together then let’s just go balls out and pick Arundell there. Personally, I’d stick with Steward at 15, limited as he is.

Selecting Steward on the wing is more just accepting that the wingers will only ever be crashing up bad ball or chasing kicks.

Or watching Fijians run round them?

Unlike May, you mean?

I'm not sincerely going to defend picking Steward as a winger long-term, but it's not a selection that would particularly bother me at the moment. Especially not if it's just a byproduct of 10. Faz 15. Smith vs 10. Ford 12. Farrell, as it appears to be.

After all. You've got to have somebody out of position.

[Banquo]

Selecting Steward on the wing is more just accepting that the wingers will only ever be crashing up bad ball or chasing kicks.

Or watching Fijians run round them?

Unlike May, you mean?

marginally less chance. He has a bit more credit in the bank than Steward as both wing and defender i'd say if forced to

[Mikey Brown]

I just meant that we already saw him get skinned by a Fijian a couple of weeks back.

[Banquo]

I just meant that we already saw him get skinned by a Fijian a couple of weeks back.

cool. How apt then.

[FKAS]

I was thinking more that Smith was akin to Barrett. Quick and attacking minded playmaker who's game management skills are sometimes questioned. Don't want to lose his influence on the team but also don't want him to be in the 10 shirt controlling matters.

The ABs converted Jordie Barrett from 15 to centre and shoved Will Jordan to the wing (admittedly he's well equipped to be there with his pace through it doesn't allow him to play his best) to accommodate both in the starting line up.

Barrett played at 15 before the ABs put him there.

Conversion is the key, not shoehorning. They had a plan, and the individuals they convert are skills wise and physically suited to the role. Unlike Steward at wing, and possibly (though we don’t know) Smith at 15. I also remember the kiwis wrecking Cullens career

Yep, they did it because they wanted to not because they’ve backed themselves in to a corner and started to panic.

Six club starts at 15 in 10 years for Beauden and five of those came in a row during the Covid interrupted spell at the Blues. He's actually played more 15 for the ABs than at Super Rugby level (per All Rugby's stats and I'm not bothering to dig further than that).

Steward has a handful of club starts on the wing at club level. Smith I don't think does but given England's preference for dropping the 15 and a playmaker deep you would rotate the defence so that Smith and Steward were in the backfield anyway just like we did Vs Samoa when Smith came on anyway. Just means Ford or unfortunately more likely Farrell would stay in the defensive line.

[FKAS]

I just meant that we already saw him get skinned by a Fijian a couple of weeks back.

A Fijian that struggling to make the starting XV currently...

[switchskier]

Portugal showed England the way last night, even if Fiji weren't at their best.

You need to kick behind and get their wingers turning, so pace to put pressure on is essential. May and Arundell should start, with Ford at ten and your best passer in the centres (who actually is this?) I'd also move on from Stewart at fullback, because I don't really rate him, but I actually think it doesn't matter.

Work rate at the breakdown is key. This should be a good game for Curry so lean in to his skillet. He should theoretically be able to do what Martin did last night.

The lineout remains suspect. Pick your best jumpers at lock and Earls instead of Vunipola at 8 and challenge everything.

[Mellsblue]

Barrett played at 15 before the ABs put him there.

Conversion is the key, not shoehorning. They had a plan, and the individuals they convert are skills wise and physically suited to the role. Unlike Steward at wing, and possibly (though we don’t know) Smith at 15. I also remember the kiwis wrecking Cullens career

Yep, they did it because they wanted to not because they’ve backed themselves in to a corner and started to panic.

Six club starts at 15 in 10 years for Beauden and five of those came in a row during the Covid interrupted spell at the Blues. He's actually played more 15 for the ABs than at Super Rugby level (per All Rugby's stats and I'm not bothering to dig further than that).

Steward has a handful of club starts on the wing at club level. Smith I don't think does but given England's preference for dropping the 15 and a playmaker deep you would rotate the defence so that Smith and Steward were in the backfield anyway just like we did Vs Samoa when Smith came on anyway. Just means Ford or unfortunately more likely Farrell would stay in the defensive line.

All great stuff but irrelevant to my point.

[p/d]

From a rusty nail perspective I’m sticking with Lawrence and Marchant pairing.
Curry, Underhill & Ludlum.
Genge, George (I would love it to be Dan) & Sinks
Locks unchanged
Couldn’t care less about 9
10 Smith
Back 3 Arundell, Daly and Steward in whatever position they effing want to.

[p/d]

Yep, they did it because they wanted to not because they’ve backed themselves in to a corner and started to panic.

Six club starts at 15 in 10 years for Beauden and five of those came in a row during the Covid interrupted spell at the Blues. He's actually played more 15 for the ABs than at Super Rugby level (per All Rugby's stats and I'm not bothering to dig further than that).

Steward has a handful of club starts on the wing at club level. Smith I don't think does but given England's preference for dropping the 15 and a playmaker deep you would rotate the defence so that Smith and Steward were in the backfield anyway just like we did Vs Samoa when Smith came on anyway. Just means Ford or unfortunately more likely Farrell would stay in the defensive line.

All great stuff but irrelevant to my point.

Trying to play catch up. Does this mean Beauden baby is making himself available to play for us on the Sunday?

[Mellsblue]

Six club starts at 15 in 10 years for Beauden and five of those came in a row during the Covid interrupted spell at the Blues. He's actually played more 15 for the ABs than at Super Rugby level (per All Rugby's stats and I'm not bothering to dig further than that).

Steward has a handful of club starts on the wing at club level. Smith I don't think does but given England's preference for dropping the 15 and a playmaker deep you would rotate the defence so that Smith and Steward were in the backfield anyway just like we did Vs Samoa when Smith came on anyway. Just means Ford or unfortunately more likely Farrell would stay in the defensive line.

All great stuff but irrelevant to my point.

Trying to play catch up. Does this mean Beauden baby is making himself available to play for us on the Sunday?

Yes. Saggy Ballsack wants to play him at no8.

[FKAS]

Six club starts at 15 in 10 years for Beauden and five of those came in a row during the Covid interrupted spell at the Blues. He's actually played more 15 for the ABs than at Super Rugby level (per All Rugby's stats and I'm not bothering to dig further than that).

Steward has a handful of club starts on the wing at club level. Smith I don't think does but given England's preference for dropping the 15 and a playmaker deep you would rotate the defence so that Smith and Steward were in the backfield anyway just like we did Vs Samoa when Smith came on anyway. Just means Ford or unfortunately more likely Farrell would stay in the defensive line.

All great stuff but irrelevant to my point.

Trying to play catch up. Does this mean Beauden baby is making himself available to play for us on the Sunday?

If only. No like NZ around the time of the last world cup we're just going to shoehorn the players they think they think are the best into the side to try and make up for the lack of a coherent and well balanced 23 that's been built up over a period of time.

[Spiffy]

Tuilagi is past his best, but still England's best hard running 12 if you want to make ground (not convinced by Lawrence so far). Marchant is probably the best 13 - adequate in attack, a good defender and intelligent. These two should really start in midfield. If Sloppy Barsteward has the balls to pick them, this leaves the dilemma at 10. Ford is clearly superior to Faz in all aspects of fly half play. But captain Marvel is an SB favourite and probably undropable, so if that midfield is selected, prepare for Farrell to gum up the works while Ford warms his arse on the bench until it's too late.

[Banquo]

All great stuff but irrelevant to my point.

Trying to play catch up. Does this mean Beauden baby is making himself available to play for us on the Sunday?

If only. No like NZ around the time of the last world cup we're just going to shoehorn the players they think they think are the best into the side to try and make up for the lack of a coherent and well balanced 23 that's been built up over a period of time.

Lol.....the only possible person you can be talking about is BB, and they'd started his conversion over a year early (and in fact he'd covered 15 a few times from the bench earlier in his AB career, as well as for the canes).

[p/d]

Am I seriously the only one considering Smith as our starting 10? Hell I would chance him at 9 before starting him at 15

Plenty underestimate Lawrence on this board as well.

[Mikey Brown]

I share the concern that he can’t keep hold of the ball. He looks great going forward until we try and recycle it. It’s a big work-on but I’d be very happy to give him a run otherwise. Poor ball retention for a strike runner is kind of a deal breaker.

[Oakboy]

I will never understand why the Lawrence/Slade pairing did not get more time. Lawrence/Marchant is the best centre pairing from the 33. It should have been a fixture from when the 33 was announced. Criticism of Lawrence makes no sense to me if Tuilagi or Farrell are the other options at 12.

[p/d]

I will never understand why the Lawrence/Slade pairing did not get more time. Lawrence/Marchant is the best centre pairing from the 33. It should have been a fixture from when the 33 was announced. Criticism of Lawrence makes no sense to me if Tuilagi or Farrell are the other options at 12.

Indeedy. I find the ‘Manu still the best we have’ incredibly depressing after all this time. Not his fault of course, more those handing out empty caps to the Shot Clock King to help him on his way to surpassing the legend that is JW.

Very thankful now Seb Atkinson hasn’t been on this sweet merry go round of incompetence