QF v Fiji

[Mellsblue]

Is this right time to bring up our average ruck speed again?!?!?

[Epaminondas Pules]

Is this right time to bring up our average ruck speed again?!?!?

I think you should time it like our rucks and bring it up in an hour

[Banquo]

Poor coaching, selection and tactics are certainly part of England's problem. But there is an even bigger issue - a lot of the players just don't look up to international rugby. This is particularly so in the backs where a lack of skill, organization,invention, pace and rugby intelligence is pretty clear to see. There is no way round this except to have a drastic cull of the tired old horses and look around for fresh talent.

well there is that...except Ford, Tuilagi, May, Daly, Marchant, Steward have at various times all looked well up to intl level; as I'm trying to say, its fckin difficult for backs with the breakdown sh+t show going on beside and with them. And Farrell and any number of 9's.

but you are definitely right about organisation and pace- and the (rugby) intelligence thing is problematic across the whole squad and coaches imo.

[Spiffy]

Poor coaching, selection and tactics are certainly part of England's problem. But there is an even bigger issue - a lot of the players just don't look up to international rugby. This is particularly so in the backs where a lack of skill, organization,invention, pace and rugby intelligence is pretty clear to see. There is no way round this except to have a drastic cull of the tired old horses and look around for fresh talent.

well there is that...except Ford, Tuilagi, May, Daly, Marchant, Steward have at various times all looked well up to intl level; as I'm trying to say, its fckin difficult for backs with the breakdown sh+t show going on beside and with them. And Farrell and any number of 9's.

but you are definitely right about organisation and pace- and the (rugby) intelligence thing is problematic across the whole squad and coaches imo.

I think the key phrase in your reply is "at various times". Tuilagi, May and Daly have looked good in the past, but not for some time.

[p/d]

Ford has clearly been dropped for defence frailty concerns and Steward relieved of the fb shirt/wing berth in anticipation of a limited aerial battle with Fiji. This is about selection based on the opposition strengths rather than our strengths.

Should we win - and we should - Ford will still miss out due to the power of both SA and France's midfield, yet Steward will be back in the 15 shirt even if our very own strictly come dancing prince bags a brace whilst putting in a faultless display.

Meanwhile the shot clock king can miss tackles and kicks at goal, fail to converse with the ref and initiate any worthwhile moves but will certainly line up at 10 for the next game, because he is a F**KING TEST MATCH ANIMAL!!!!

[Banquo]

Poor coaching, selection and tactics are certainly part of England's problem. But there is an even bigger issue - a lot of the players just don't look up to international rugby. This is particularly so in the backs where a lack of skill, organization,invention, pace and rugby intelligence is pretty clear to see. There is no way round this except to have a drastic cull of the tired old horses and look around for fresh talent.

well there is that...except Ford, Tuilagi, May, Daly, Marchant, Steward have at various times all looked well up to intl level; as I'm trying to say, its fckin difficult for backs with the breakdown sh+t show going on beside and with them. And Farrell and any number of 9's.

but you are definitely right about organisation and pace- and the (rugby) intelligence thing is problematic across the whole squad and coaches imo.

I think the key phrase in your reply is "at various times". Tuilagi, May and Daly have looked good in the past, but not for some time.

as have Ford, Steward and Marchant conveniently omitted. Tuilagi still easily gets over the gainline and is good for a bundee aki job for 50 mins, and imo Daly has been poorly managed. But I agreed on org and coaching; I just think there is enough backs talent to do a job if well organised, even if Freeman should be there.

But focusing on the backs misses 3/4 of the point (unless we are talking Farrell).

[Banquo]

Ford has clearly been dropped for defence frailty concerns and Steward relieved of the fb shirt/wing berth in anticipation of a limited aerial battle with Fiji. This is about selection based on the opposition strengths rather than our strengths.

Should we win - and we should - Ford will still miss out due to the power of both SA and France's midfield, yet Steward will be back in the 15 shirt even if our very own strictly come dancing prince bags a brace whilst putting in a faultless display.

Meanwhile the shot clock king can miss tackles and kicks at goal, fail to converse with the ref and initiate any worthwhile moves but will certainly line up at 10 for the next game, because he is a F**KING TEST MATCH ANIMAL!!!!

dicking about in such a rad manner man, is stupid. Its not 'special teams' and we should be trying to get some cohesion rather than playing shirt bingo.

[p/d]

Ford has clearly been dropped for defence frailty concerns and Steward relieved of the fb shirt/wing berth in anticipation of a limited aerial battle with Fiji. This is about selection based on the opposition strengths rather than our strengths.

Should we win - and we should - Ford will still miss out due to the power of both SA and France's midfield, yet Steward will be back in the 15 shirt even if our very own strictly come dancing prince bags a brace whilst putting in a faultless display.

Meanwhile the shot clock king can miss tackles and kicks at goal, fail to converse with the ref and initiate any worthwhile moves but will certainly line up at 10 for the next game, because he is a F**KING TEST MATCH ANIMAL!!!!

dicking about in such a rad manner man, is stupid. Its not 'special teams' and we should be trying to get some cohesion rather than playing shirt bingo.

Manu (Lawrence) & Marchant I can live with - not sure why they even moved away from that. What I don't get is the back row and the pointlessness of BV on the bench. I'm sure being at training sessions throws a completely different light on what combination works best but I would imagine- if someone could find it - our average ruck speed is pretty dismal.

[Banquo]

Ford has clearly been dropped for defence frailty concerns and Steward relieved of the fb shirt/wing berth in anticipation of a limited aerial battle with Fiji. This is about selection based on the opposition strengths rather than our strengths.

Should we win - and we should - Ford will still miss out due to the power of both SA and France's midfield, yet Steward will be back in the 15 shirt even if our very own strictly come dancing prince bags a brace whilst putting in a faultless display.

Meanwhile the shot clock king can miss tackles and kicks at goal, fail to converse with the ref and initiate any worthwhile moves but will certainly line up at 10 for the next game, because he is a F**KING TEST MATCH ANIMAL!!!!

dicking about in such a rad manner man, is stupid. Its not 'special teams' and we should be trying to get some cohesion rather than playing shirt bingo.

Manu (Lawrence) & Marchant I can live with - not sure why they even moved away from that. What I don't get is the back row and the pointlessness of BV on the bench. I'm sure being at training sessions throws a completely different light on what combination works best but I would imagine- if someone could find it - our average ruck speed is pretty dismal.

Smith at 15 is daft, as is Faz at 10. Back row is daft. Cole is daft. I am daft.

[Mr Mwenda]

This game is a real wake up call for England.

team selection still shrouded in mystery

England could be in quite a grave situation here.

I have taken comfort from Septic Blancmange's cryptic messages. England have turned a corner and the resurrection is at hand.

[Spiffy]

Ford has clearly been dropped for defence frailty concerns and Steward relieved of the fb shirt/wing berth in anticipation of a limited aerial battle with Fiji. This is about selection based on the opposition strengths rather than our strengths.

Should we win - and we should - Ford will still miss out due to the power of both SA and France's midfield, yet Steward will be back in the 15 shirt even if our very own strictly come dancing prince bags a brace whilst putting in a faultless display.

Meanwhile the shot clock king can miss tackles and kicks at goal, fail to converse with the ref and initiate any worthwhile moves but will certainly line up at 10 for the next game, because he is a F**KING TEST MATCH ANIMAL!!!!

Hamster?

[Beasties]

Pretty much. I think he went with experience hoping that the spine from 2019 plus some newer additions would carry is through to a respectable as could be exit. He might still achieve that despite some dull and error strewn showings.

There can't be a repeat for the 6N it has to be a gutting of the squad. This lot can't even execute the simplest of game plans Steve has given them.

true, it is very simple. Produce really slow ball, don't slow down opposition ball and miss your tackles. And kick the fck out of it. Whatever happens, don't do a backs move, and as insurance I'll move your positions between every match so you won't be able to remember them.

It’s interesting that they’re all out of form after three months in training camp…

This has long been a thing, even before Eddie arrived to turn it up even more.

[p/d]

dicking about in such a rad manner man, is stupid. Its not 'special teams' and we should be trying to get some cohesion rather than playing shirt bingo.

Manu (Lawrence) & Marchant I can live with - not sure why they even moved away from that. What I don't get is the back row and the pointlessness of BV on the bench. I'm sure being at training sessions throws a completely different light on what combination works best but I would imagine- if someone could find it - our average ruck speed is pretty dismal.

Smith at 15 is daft, as is Faz at 10. Back row is daft. Cole is daft. I am daft.

If we are being honest then, yes, I to am daft

[Stom]

The thing is, most of us aren't high level rugby coaches. We mostly don't see the whole picture. And that's before the fact we don't have access to all the data.

But it's so damn obvious what the problems are that it's painful. And they're the same problems most of us have been talking about since...Johnson. That's more than a decade of us saying the same things, just with different names.

Everyone knows we should not be picking Cole, Lawes, or BillyV. They destroy our pack and force our really good players - Itoje, Curry, George - to work that much harder to hit every single ruck.

And then if the ball does make it to the backs, we kick it or make stupid mistakes. We don't run phase play because Eddie had a bright idea and Soggy Ballsacks has stuck with it. So we run two bloody phases and then kick the ball. And because most of the time Ford is not on the pitch, we kick it badly.

Then the opposition run it back and we bring up our great white wall. Which would be amazing, except that most of the time it fails. It's really strange, though, somehow it doesn't fail when the weak link, who ALWAYS gets dragged past the gainline and is a pure liability, plays. But when captain smash 'em, with his in your face world class defence, plays...our wall disintegrates...

Can't possibly be that Ford is a much better defender than Farrell, can it?

Which, again, most of us on here know. So how can't the coaching team see it.

We're picking off training numbers, I'm damn sight sure of it. There are more of them, and they're easier to control. Which means that players who fail time and again when you put on intensity...get the chance to play time and again. Who cares if Farrell nails all his tackles and kicks and passes in training if he can't do any of it during the game.

Who cares if Dan Cole can pick himself off the floor within a second in training if it takes him a week in game.

Come on guys, this is embarrassing.

[Oakboy]

The thing is, most of us aren't high level rugby coaches. We mostly don't see the whole picture. And that's before the fact we don't have access to all the data.

But it's so damn obvious what the problems are that it's painful. And they're the same problems most of us have been talking about since...Johnson. That's more than a decade of us saying the same things, just with different names.

Everyone knows we should not be picking Cole, Lawes, or BillyV. They destroy our pack and force our really good players - Itoje, Curry, George - to work that much harder to hit every single ruck.

And then if the ball does make it to the backs, we kick it or make stupid mistakes. We don't run phase play because Eddie had a bright idea and Soggy Ballsacks has stuck with it. So we run two bloody phases and then kick the ball. And because most of the time Ford is not on the pitch, we kick it badly.

Then the opposition run it back and we bring up our great white wall. Which would be amazing, except that most of the time it fails. It's really strange, though, somehow it doesn't fail when the weak link, who ALWAYS gets dragged past the gainline and is a pure liability, plays. But when captain smash 'em, with his in your face world class defence, plays...our wall disintegrates...

Can't possibly be that Ford is a much better defender than Farrell, can it?

Which, again, most of us on here know. So how can't the coaching team see it.

We're picking off training numbers, I'm damn sight sure of it. There are more of them, and they're easier to control. Which means that players who fail time and again when you put on intensity...get the chance to play time and again. Who cares if Farrell nails all his tackles and kicks and passes in training if he can't do any of it during the game.

Who cares if Dan Cole can pick himself off the floor within a second in training if it takes him a week in game.

Come on guys, this is embarrassing.

Stom, two questions arise from that excellent post: 1. Is there ANY justification for not having a full clear-out of personnel and tactics. 2. Is SB the right guy to do it if he has contributed/added to all that is wrong?

[Stom]

The thing is, most of us aren't high level rugby coaches. We mostly don't see the whole picture. And that's before the fact we don't have access to all the data.

But it's so damn obvious what the problems are that it's painful. And they're the same problems most of us have been talking about since...Johnson. That's more than a decade of us saying the same things, just with different names.

Everyone knows we should not be picking Cole, Lawes, or BillyV. They destroy our pack and force our really good players - Itoje, Curry, George - to work that much harder to hit every single ruck.

And then if the ball does make it to the backs, we kick it or make stupid mistakes. We don't run phase play because Eddie had a bright idea and Soggy Ballsacks has stuck with it. So we run two bloody phases and then kick the ball. And because most of the time Ford is not on the pitch, we kick it badly.

Then the opposition run it back and we bring up our great white wall. Which would be amazing, except that most of the time it fails. It's really strange, though, somehow it doesn't fail when the weak link, who ALWAYS gets dragged past the gainline and is a pure liability, plays. But when captain smash 'em, with his in your face world class defence, plays...our wall disintegrates...

Can't possibly be that Ford is a much better defender than Farrell, can it?

Which, again, most of us on here know. So how can't the coaching team see it.

We're picking off training numbers, I'm damn sight sure of it. There are more of them, and they're easier to control. Which means that players who fail time and again when you put on intensity...get the chance to play time and again. Who cares if Farrell nails all his tackles and kicks and passes in training if he can't do any of it during the game.

Who cares if Dan Cole can pick himself off the floor within a second in training if it takes him a week in game.

Come on guys, this is embarrassing.

Stom, two questions arise from that excellent post: 1. Is there ANY justification for not having a full clear-out of personnel and tactics. 2. Is SB the right guy to do it if he has contributed/added to all that is wrong?

Of course there is. The questions that Skint Boomer needs to be asked by his bosses are the problem...Will they ask the correct questions? And will they have the understanding of the game to KNOW that those are the right questions?

If Stupendously Boring cannot acknowledge the mistakes and understand where the problems came from, he needs to be let go. Same as you would in any organization. He needs to show that he understands the issues, that he had a reason for choosing the direction he chose, and he has a plan to solve the issues.

As for mitigation, there's plenty.
-He had zero time after Eddie to change things up.
-The RFU didn't have the ability to hire experienced, expensive assistants to help him.
-The players have got into such a big core skills funk that it would have taken a miracle to cut out the basic errors in such a short period of time.

And I'm sure there's more I missed.

[jngf]

The thing is, most of us aren't high level rugby coaches. We mostly don't see the whole picture. And that's before the fact we don't have access to all the data.

But it's so damn obvious what the problems are that it's painful. And they're the same problems most of us have been talking about since...Johnson. That's more than a decade of us saying the same things, just with different names.

Everyone knows we should not be picking Cole, Lawes, or BillyV. They destroy our pack and force our really good players - Itoje, Curry, George - to work that much harder to hit every single ruck.

And then if the ball does make it to the backs, we kick it or make stupid mistakes. We don't run phase play because Eddie had a bright idea and Soggy Ballsacks has stuck with it. So we run two bloody phases and then kick the ball. And because most of the time Ford is not on the pitch, we kick it badly.

Then the opposition run it back and we bring up our great white wall. Which would be amazing, except that most of the time it fails. It's really strange, though, somehow it doesn't fail when the weak link, who ALWAYS gets dragged past the gainline and is a pure liability, plays. But when captain smash 'em, with his in your face world class defence, plays...our wall disintegrates...

Can't possibly be that Ford is a much better defender than Farrell, can it?

Which, again, most of us on here know. So how can't the coaching team see it.

We're picking off training numbers, I'm damn sight sure of it. There are more of them, and they're easier to control. Which means that players who fail time and again when you put on intensity...get the chance to play time and again. Who cares if Farrell nails all his tackles and kicks and passes in training if he can't do any of it during the game.

Who cares if Dan Cole can pick himself off the floor within a second in training if it takes him a week in game.

Come on guys, this is embarrassing.

Stom, two questions arise from that excellent post: 1. Is there ANY justification for not having a full clear-out of personnel and tactics. 2. Is SB the right guy to do it if he has contributed/added to all that is wrong?

Of course there is. The questions that Skint Boomer needs to be asked by his bosses are the problem...Will they ask the correct questions? And will they have the understanding of the game to KNOW that those are the right questions?

If Stupendously Boring cannot acknowledge the mistakes and understand where the problems came from, he needs to be let go. Same as you would in any organization. He needs to show that he understands the issues, that he had a reason for choosing the direction he chose, and he has a plan to solve the issues.

As for mitigation, there's plenty.
-He had zero time after Eddie to change things up.
-The RFU didn't have the ability to hire experienced, expensive assistants to help him.
-The players have got into such a big core skills funk that it would have taken a miracle to cut out the basic errors in such a short period of time.

And I'm sure there's more I missed.

Re Suella Braverman, whether we win QF or not I’m prepared to suspend judgement, provided in his own mind he calls time on Farrell’s test career (ditto that of Billy, May, Youngs,Cole and Lawes as a back row) the split second we bow out of the tournament even in the (stratospherically) unlikely event we were to actually go on and win the bloody thing..

[jngf]

As a postscript the odds of this event are 11 to 1 though I might have added a 10^2 multiple to that. Scrumhead what do you think?

[jngf]

The WRFU might regret the false economy of giving their clothing contract to those commercial travellers

[p/d]

Hope we adopt the Josh Adams wrap tomorrow..
cheap shot tosspot

[Which Tyler]

Hope we adopt the Josh Adams wrap tomorrow..
cheap shot tosspot

By Farrell's standards, it really was a wrap

It's just relevant because it wasn't a tackle. It was a shoulder, off the ball and after the whistle. Wrapping is irrelevant, real or imagined.

IMO: Yellow card for Adams, restart with a penalty (no card) against Lavinini for the afters.

[16th man]

Argies dialling up the hitting.

Thats a hell of a strike

[jngf]

Given the performance of Ireland and All Blacks tonight, England are not in the same ball park and allocation of teams to pools looks a total farce - (if) England scrape to a semi but Ireland haven’t - kids nobody

[Scrumhead]

Surprisingly, I agree with a couple of your last posts …

[pompey-zebra]

Given the performance of Ireland and All Blacks tonight, England are not in the same ball park and allocation of teams to pools looks a total farce - (if) England scrape to a semi but Ireland haven’t - kids nobody

It might kid nobody but the RFU would probably find it hard to sack a coach who took England to a world cup semi final especially given the low starting point.