Bristol Vs Tigers

[FKAS]

Bristol Bears team to face Leicester Tigers at Ashton Gate on Friday night (7.45pm KO):

15. Rich Lane (18 apps), 14. Gabriel Ibitoye (20 apps), 13. Benhard Janse van Rensburg (3 apps), 12. James Williams (19 apps), 11. Noah Heward (5 apps), 10. AJ MacGinty (26 apps), 9. Harry Randall (104 apps); 1. Jake Woolmore (133 apps), 2. Harry Thacker (102 apps), 3. Max Lahiff (69 apps), 4. James Dun (16 apps), 5. Joe Batley (42 apps), 6. Fitz Harding (c) (54 apps), 7. Dan Thomas (130 apps), 8. Magnus Bradbury (24 apps).

System players: 16. Will Capon (74 apps), 17. Andrew Turner (8 apps), 18. Jay Tyack (11 apps), 19. Josh Caulfield (4 apps), 20. Steven Luatua (114 apps), 21. Kieran Marmion (4 apps), 22. Virimi Vakatawa (debut), 23. Piers O’Conor (122 apps).

Some impact on that Bears bench. High work rate pack but they are going to have to front up as Tigers will be physical. Very talented backline that should be potent if they can get room to play in.

STARTING XV

15 Mike Brown [9]
14 Josh Bassett [2]
13 Guy Porter [63]
12 Dan Kelly [59]
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [3]
10 Charlie Atkinson [20]
9 Joe Powell [3]

1 Francois Van Wyk [34]
2 Charlie Clare [80]
3 Joe Heyes [125]
4 Cameron Henderson [39]
5 Harry Wells [178]
6 Hanro Liebenberg (c) [87]
7 Olly Cracknell [26]
8 Matt Rogerson [2]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Nic Dolly [27]
17 James Whitcombe [39]
18 Will Hurd [27]
19 Mike Williams [83]
20 Kyle Hatherell [4]
21 Tom Whiteley [7]
22 Jamie Shillcock [4]
23 Phil Cokanasiga [9]

Disappointed to see Williams on the bench and slightly surprised to see Brown get the nod over Shillcock as Atkinson's kicking off the tee has been iffy in pre season (otherwise he's been excellent from what I've seen). Shillcock has done quite a bit of the kicking for goal when he's played, including with Atkinson. I'd have liked to see Ilione in the 23 as well, particularly with Cracknell having had injury issues over the summer.

[fivepointer]

Lane at FB for Bris is the obvious standout selection.

Bristol need to start with a bang. Their pre season and PRC form wasnt great. After last season they need to show improvement.

Big game.

[Banquo]

Lane at FB for Bris is the obvious standout selection.

Bristol need to start with a bang. Their pre season and PRC form wasnt great. After last season they need to show improvement.

Big game.

what apart from stuffing us 98-14 (with the same team) but also beating a strong Saints team . Their first PRC game was compromised by playing the baa baas two days before.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Williams is just a bizarre signing full stop!

Also would have liked to see Ilione in the squad. Pleased to see Coka.

[Puja]

Disappointed to see Williams on the bench and slightly surprised to see Brown get the nod over Shillcock as Atkinson's kicking off the tee has been iffy in pre season (otherwise he's been excellent from what I've seen). Shillcock has done quite a bit of the kicking for goal when he's played, including with Atkinson. I'd have liked to see Ilione in the 23 as well, particularly with Cracknell having had injury issues over the summer.

I haven't been able to see any of the PRC, but I am astonished to hear Tigers fans who have been disappointed that Williams is *only* on the bench, based on pre-season performances. Will take quite a bit to change my opinion of him, tbh.

Also disappointed no Shillcock start, as I rate him very highly indeed.

Puja

[FKAS]

Disappointed to see Williams on the bench and slightly surprised to see Brown get the nod over Shillcock as Atkinson's kicking off the tee has been iffy in pre season (otherwise he's been excellent from what I've seen). Shillcock has done quite a bit of the kicking for goal when he's played, including with Atkinson. I'd have liked to see Ilione in the 23 as well, particularly with Cracknell having had injury issues over the summer.

I haven't been able to see any of the PRC, but I am astonished to hear Tigers fans who have been disappointed that Williams is *only* on the bench, based on pre-season performances. Will take quite a bit to change my opinion of him, tbh.

Also disappointed no Shillcock start, as I rate him very highly indeed.

Puja

To be fair Brown has also received good reports from his PRC performances and I think that McKellar might want his leadership from 15 as it's a new look back three with a young 10.

[Tigersman]

Williams made complete sense as a signing IMO, not really sure why people disgree that much.
Martin and Chessum away with England
Carter arrived late for pre-season talk of injury delayed it
Manz needs a season staying fit
L.Chessum looked knackered v Falcons, Carnduff had a better preseason. But IMO Carnduff looks light for a Prem lock ATM also Carnduff picked up an injury.
Carmichael is doing joint stuff with Nottingham uni.

Considering his contract ends November I feel it's a pretty smart pick short term covers 6 if needed off the bench, if it goes past that I would agree.


Ilione v Cracknell tough one, first game of the season away against Bristol I get why he picked up. Also a partnership between Rogerson and Cracknell makes sense.

[FKAS]

Williams made complete sense as a signing IMO, not really sure why people disgree that much.
Martin and Chessum away with England
Carter arrived late for pre-season talk of injury delayed it
Manz needs a season staying fit
L.Chessum looked knackered v Falcons, Carnduff had a better preseason. But IMO Carnduff looks light for a Prem lock ATM also Carnduff picked up an injury.
Carmichael is doing joint stuff with Nottingham uni.

Considering his contract ends November I feel it's a pretty smart pick short term covers 6 if needed off the bench, if it goes past that I would agree.


Ilione v Cracknell tough one, first game of the season away against Bristol I get why he picked up. Also a partnership between Rogerson and Cracknell makes sense.

In an otherwise fairly experienced pack I'd have just liked to see us pick one of the younger guys on the bench be it one of the locks or Ilione. Manz or Chessum Jnr would learn a lot from this game and with the backrow all being somewhat interchangeable (Wells also covering 6) versatility isn't a big thing.

Hatherall could also pack down at lock if required, ditto Liebenburg should we have wanted Ilione on the bench.

We've got a lot of young forward talent coming through and getting them experience in this period of the season makes sense when the pack is otherwise quite experienced.

[Puja]

Williams made complete sense as a signing IMO, not really sure why people disgree that much.
Martin and Chessum away with England
Carter arrived late for pre-season talk of injury delayed it
Manz needs a season staying fit
L.Chessum looked knackered v Falcons, Carnduff had a better preseason. But IMO Carnduff looks light for a Prem lock ATM also Carnduff picked up an injury.
Carmichael is doing joint stuff with Nottingham uni.

Considering his contract ends November I feel it's a pretty smart pick short term covers 6 if needed off the bench, if it goes past that I would agree.


Ilione v Cracknell tough one, first game of the season away against Bristol I get why he picked up. Also a partnership between Rogerson and Cracknell makes sense.

In an otherwise fairly experienced pack I'd have just liked to see us pick one of the younger guys on the bench be it one of the locks or Ilione. Manz or Chessum Jnr would learn a lot from this game and with the backrow all being somewhat interchangeable (Wells also covering 6) versatility isn't a big thing.

Hatherall could also pack down at lock if required, ditto Liebenburg should we have wanted Ilione on the bench.

We've got a lot of young forward talent coming through and getting them experience in this period of the season makes sense when the pack is otherwise quite experienced.

I'm with FKAS. With us picking up Rogerson as well as Hatherell into an already congested back row, while also having Henderson, Wells, and Carter in the second row, Williams feels like a pointless signing that is doing nothing but keeping LChessum and Ilione out of game-time that will be exceptionally hard to come by once we welcome back our four back-5 players from the RWC. This viewpoint is informed by being thoroughly unimpressed by both his play and his inability not to get yellow-carded for a stupid shoulder-charge/leading elbow/high-tackle in his previous stint and across his time with Bath. If he's significantly improved, then I may change my mind, but as things stand, I'd rather have a knackered LChessum off the bench. Neither would be great, but at least the latter would do something for the future.

Puja

[Tigersman]

Williams made complete sense as a signing IMO, not really sure why people disgree that much.
Martin and Chessum away with England
Carter arrived late for pre-season talk of injury delayed it
Manz needs a season staying fit
L.Chessum looked knackered v Falcons, Carnduff had a better preseason. But IMO Carnduff looks light for a Prem lock ATM also Carnduff picked up an injury.
Carmichael is doing joint stuff with Nottingham uni.

Considering his contract ends November I feel it's a pretty smart pick short term covers 6 if needed off the bench, if it goes past that I would agree.


Ilione v Cracknell tough one, first game of the season away against Bristol I get why he picked up. Also a partnership between Rogerson and Cracknell makes sense.

In an otherwise fairly experienced pack I'd have just liked to see us pick one of the younger guys on the bench be it one of the locks or Ilione. Manz or Chessum Jnr would learn a lot from this game and with the backrow all being somewhat interchangeable (Wells also covering 6) versatility isn't a big thing.

Hatherall could also pack down at lock if required, ditto Liebenburg should we have wanted Ilione on the bench.

We've got a lot of young forward talent coming through and getting them experience in this period of the season makes sense when the pack is otherwise quite experienced.

It's McKeller first game prem game hard to blame him for going all out.
Manz needs to get a full and fit season with Nottingham under his belt.
I get the argument for Chessum over Williams, but I feel it's close enough call that as a signing it's justified especially since it's only RWC cover. Especially as i'm still not sure Chessum doesn't need to fill out a little more. Lewis Chessum certainly gives me Lood de Jager vibes in not just his size but style of play. But Lood is was a lot more filled out when he was making his debut (South african diet helps)

I hear Hatherall and Liebenberg as lock options but has anyone seem them at lock and how did the scrums perform with it? Ilione is a very talented player and he will be getting game time this season but Williams is not effecting his selection as Hanro and Hatherall are never going to be picked at lock by a prop head coach Williams.


I guess McKeller will find out tomorrow if it's a right call, Williams could well come on at 70 minutes give a dumb penalty gets YC'd and loses the game.

[FKAS]

If Chessum the Even Younger is cream crackered then Tom Manz looked decent in the PRC. He's a big lad and only injuries have held him back, he was rated highly coming out of the academy. He's had injury issues but he's fit now.

I agree Carnduff needs to fill out a bit but he's still qualifying for the under 20s plus I think he's injured.

I don't think Williams being selected is likely to effect the result which is kinda why I would have gone with a younger option. Our pack is either going to dominate or we're going to be in trouble.

[Tigersman]

If Chessum the Even Younger is cream crackered then Tom Manz looked decent in the PRC. He's a big lad and only injuries have held him back, he was rated highly coming out of the academy. He's had injury issues but he's fit now.

I agree Carnduff needs to fill out a bit but he's still qualifying for the under 20s plus I think he's injured.

I don't think Williams being selected is likely to effect the result which is kinda why I would have gone with a younger option. Our pack is either going to dominate or we're going to be in trouble.

Which games are you basing Tom Manz PRC on?
Josh Manz looked good before his injury v Ampthill

Carnduff for me is a future England blindside

[Puja]

Williams made complete sense as a signing IMO, not really sure why people disgree that much.
Martin and Chessum away with England
Carter arrived late for pre-season talk of injury delayed it
Manz needs a season staying fit
L.Chessum looked knackered v Falcons, Carnduff had a better preseason. But IMO Carnduff looks light for a Prem lock ATM also Carnduff picked up an injury.
Carmichael is doing joint stuff with Nottingham uni.

Considering his contract ends November I feel it's a pretty smart pick short term covers 6 if needed off the bench, if it goes past that I would agree.


Ilione v Cracknell tough one, first game of the season away against Bristol I get why he picked up. Also a partnership between Rogerson and Cracknell makes sense.

In an otherwise fairly experienced pack I'd have just liked to see us pick one of the younger guys on the bench be it one of the locks or Ilione. Manz or Chessum Jnr would learn a lot from this game and with the backrow all being somewhat interchangeable (Wells also covering 6) versatility isn't a big thing.

Hatherall could also pack down at lock if required, ditto Liebenburg should we have wanted Ilione on the bench.

We've got a lot of young forward talent coming through and getting them experience in this period of the season makes sense when the pack is otherwise quite experienced.

It's McKeller first game prem game hard to blame him for going all out.
Manz needs to get a full and fit season with Nottingham under his belt.
I get the argument for Chessum over Williams, but I feel it's close enough call that as a signing it's justified especially since it's only RWC cover. Especially as i'm still not sure Chessum doesn't need to fill out a little more. Lewis Chessum certainly gives me Lood de Jager vibes in not just his size but style of play. But Lood is was a lot more filled out when he was making his debut (South african diet helps)

I hear Hatherall and Liebenberg as lock options but has anyone seem them at lock and how did the scrums perform with it? Ilione is a very talented player and he will be getting game time this season but Williams is not effecting his selection as Hanro and Hatherall are never going to be picked at lock by a prop head coach Williams.


I guess McKeller will find out tomorrow if it's a right call, Williams could well come on at 70 minutes give a dumb penalty gets YC'd and loses the game.

Hatherell did some locking when he was in France and they tend to be unforgiving of scrum engine rooms that can't push. I've not personally seen it happen myself.

The issue is that we're talking about who our 4th choice lock should be during the RWC (so our 6th choice in everyday times) - they don't need to be a perfect player because they are squad depth. Williams is *fine* there, as would Hatherell have been, as would LChessum. It's not making a massive difference to the squad as a whole, and I can't imagine Williams is paid enough that it'll make the slightest difference to our budgets.

We're just all still a bit sensitive to the club signing a journeyman to cover the 6th choice spot ahead of giving a youngster a few minutes off the bench, because we all still remember the horrible fallow period where that was all that we ever did. Never go back to the days of Jason Spice.

Puja

[FKAS]

If Chessum the Even Younger is cream crackered then Tom Manz looked decent in the PRC. He's a big lad and only injuries have held him back, he was rated highly coming out of the academy. He's had injury issues but he's fit now.

I agree Carnduff needs to fill out a bit but he's still qualifying for the under 20s plus I think he's injured.

I don't think Williams being selected is likely to effect the result which is kinda why I would have gone with a younger option. Our pack is either going to dominate or we're going to be in trouble.

Which games are you basing Tom Manz PRC on?
Josh Manz looked good before his injury v Ampthill

Carnduff for me is a future England blindside

He came off the bench Vs Ampthill and I heard he did well on loan for Notts.

Depends on how Carnduff bulks out. He might yet settle at lock or 6. He could very well end up packing down at 6 for England.

Josh Manz looks a very bright prospect. He could probably play across the backrow with a bit of development. He's quite tall but I'm not sure he's going to fill out enough to play lock.

[jimKRFC]

Bristol 22 - 0 Leicester at half time.

Bristol have lost McGinty though and two props (Lahiff before the game and Tyack) so already a bit thin in places with Williams at 10 and Kloska in. Ibitoye playing well though! Fingers crossed they can control the second half.

[Puja]

Leicester utterly woeful so far. Feels like watching England.

Ibitoye is having a phenomenal game. Not so much in the dancing feet that we're used to (although there's been some of that too), but his nuts and bolts game has been superb and he's so strong in the carry. Also appears to have developed a howitzer of a boot over the off-season. May be a bit previous to say off only part of one game, but if he carries on like this, he's back to being an option for England again. Certainly looks more likely than OHC on tonight's evidence.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Leicester utterly woeful so far. Feels like watching England.

Ibitoye is having a phenomenal game. Not so much in the dancing feet that we're used to (although there's been some of that too), but his nuts and bolts game has been superb and he's so strong in the carry. Also appears to have developed a howitzer of a boot over the off-season. May be a bit previous to say off only part of one game, but if he carries on like this, he's back to being an option for England again. Certainly looks more likely than OHC on tonight's evidence.

Puja

You’ll have the justice4freeman brigade at your door, talking like that.

I do like the idea of playing well and currently being good at rugby as being factors in England selection though.

[FKAS]

Glad I didn't stay in to see this shower. Stomps all over the feel good feeling of pre season.

Sounds like Bristol were very good in the first half but fell away with McGinty getting injured, lucky for Tigers less so for my fantasy rugby team.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Tigers attack was very frustrating. Just pod after pod and hit ups. Perfect for Bristol to lap up in defence.

[Puja]

Feel like I owe Hatherell an apology - he made a real difference after coming off the bench. I don't think I owe Mike Williams one though.

Glad I didn't stay in to see this shower. Stomps all over the feel good feeling of pre season.

Sounds like Bristol were very good in the first half but fell away with McGinty getting injured, lucky for Tigers less so for my fantasy rugby team.

Wasn't even so much that Bristol were particularly good - we were clumsy, unambitious, and unimaginative, and they were efficient. Bullied us in the mauls on both attack and defence (which isn't really acceptable) and rushed well in defence (although Tempest appeared to have forgotten where the offside line was, cause they never started anywhere near the back foot).

Not an auspicious start.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Bristol were good value for the win. Really good energy about their play, particularly in defence. They kicked sensibly, had the upper hand in the mauls and were more switched on generally.

Ibitoye was very good, so too Thacker, Batley and Harding.

On the BT coverage. Having Bayfield run after Ibitoye for his reaction after his first try was idiotic. No more of that please. Pleasantly surprised by Ashton on comms. He and Flats were a good combo.

[FKAS]

Tigers attack was very frustrating. Just pod after pod and hit ups. Perfect for Bristol to lap up in defence.

So frustrating to hear that as we were playing with width in pre season. A couple of hit ups from the forwards and then go wide with the flankers dropping into the 15m channels so that we had some physicality out there. Keep the opposition defence stretched.

From the first 10 mins I've seen plus what I've heard we kicked horrifically and played dull and repetitive attack that just went backwards. We played with more imagination under Borthwick.

[FKAS]

Well having managed to catch up with the first half I'd say the following;

- Tempest reminding everyone why he's not at the world cup.
- Bristol's defence is a huge upgrade on last season.
- Bristol in attack probably has a couple of more gears to go, don't think they are at their most fluent but it's still got Tigers on the ropes.
- van Rensburg is just class, are we sure he's not EQ?

-Tigers are abject. Is Matt O'Connor back running the attack?
-Tigers selection is bad. Powell shocking and there's absolutely no threat at the breakdown without Ilione or Reffell. Atkinson looks lost and Porter no better.

[Mellsblue]

Not content with being the best 15 in the world, RICH LANE!!! is also showing the skills need to be a test match iceman by producing grubber kicks just outside the oppo’s 22. The big question is, if he promises to play 10 & 15 for England will world rugby lift his test match ban?

https://x.com/bristolbears/status/17129 ... MV3j-SK8yQ

[FKAS]

Not content with being the best 15 in the world, RICH LANE!!! is also showing the skills need to be a test match iceman by producing grubber kicks just outside the oppo’s 22. The big question is, if he promises to play 10 & 15 for England will world rugby lift his test match ban?

https://x.com/bristolbears/status/17129 ... MV3j-SK8yQ

He was generally excellent though might not want to watch the Dan Kelly try back as that was a bad misjudgement.

Ibitoye stole the show though, almost a complete performance from him. If he keeps playing like that Smelly Belly will have to select him for the 6N.