Quarter final

[normanski]

I hope Gatland stays and starts the rebuilding process to get us ready over the next four years.

[Sandydragon]

I'm not going to call your opinion rubbish, but I disagree with it. We have been flattered by the poor quality in our side of the draw. A Pivac coached Wales would have been similarly flattered and would probably also have gotten to the quarters.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Gatland has failed. I'm saying he hasn't performed any better than Pivac was likely to have. So the WRU wasted their money. I'm not saying we should change again - that would be more money wasted, I expect. But a dismal 6N and, to be generous, a par RWC is no great return for ~£1M spent to change the coaching team.

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

I agree, they looked a step change above what Pivac was getting, and a damn sight fitter. TBH had they kept playing like they did the first ten minutes they'd have won easily.

My EMB colleagues will shoot me, but I wouldn't have minded Gatland as a caretaker going into this RWC. He'd have been a better bridge than Borthwick imo.

Gatland turned us around from being a joke team who lost at home to Italy, Georgia and Australia seconds into a side that could have made the semis. A bit more composure in that first half and we could have gone in two scores clear. We weren’t blown away yesterday by a much better team, as well as Argentina played we were undone by own own mistakes and discipline.

[Banquo]

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

I agree, they looked a step change above what Pivac was getting, and a damn sight fitter. TBH had they kept playing like they did the first ten minutes they'd have won easily.

My EMB colleagues will shoot me, but I wouldn't have minded Gatland as a caretaker going into this RWC. He'd have been a better bridge than Borthwick imo.

Gatland turned us around from being a joke team who lost at home to Italy, Georgia and Australia seconds into a side that could have made the semis. A bit more composure in that first half and we could have gone in two scores clear. We weren’t blown away yesterday by a much better team, as well as Argentina played we were undone by own own mistakes and discipline.

Argentina regrouped better at half time- changed both sides of the ball.

[Sandydragon]

Totally agree they dominated the second half. But if we had been further ahead then it would have made it a different game and they would have had to chance their arm a bit.

[Ross. S]

To say Pivac and Gats would have had the same results is insane. Gats left Pivac a semi final team in 2019, Pivac took that and turned it into a team that lost to Italy and Georgia in Cardiff. Gats comes back and 10 months later we almost got to a semi again. Pivac's team would have lost to Australia and Fiji no question, Georgia had beaten us in our last outing and Portugal have just turned Fiji. Theres a good chance, with Pivac in charge, we could have come bottom of our group. How embarasing would that have been? 2019 semifinalists to having to qualify for 2027

[Banquo]

Totally agree they dominated the second half. But if we had been further ahead then it would have made it a different game and they would have had to chance their arm a bit.

yep,as I noted earlier..you were all over them for 20+ mins

[Sandydragon]

Totally agree they dominated the second half. But if we had been further ahead then it would have made it a different game and they would have had to chance their arm a bit.

yep,as I noted earlier..you were all over them for 20+ mins

I think we’re agreeing with each other. Obviously a bit of a shock on the internet

Ultimately we failed to capitalise a build a score and then a few key moments went against us. But we were playing well enough to win that game without having to rely on 50/50 chances but we failed to do so. Which is why this is so gutting and worse in some ways to being well beaten by a much better team.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Rubbish. Australia and Georgia beat Provac teams comfortably in Cardiff. Privac didn’t get the best out of this team and whilst it isn’t vintage Gatland has got more out of the players.

I'm not going to call your opinion rubbish, but I disagree with it. We have been flattered by the poor quality in our side of the draw. A Pivac coached Wales would have been similarly flattered and would probably also have gotten to the quarters.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Gatland has failed. I'm saying he hasn't performed any better than Pivac was likely to have. So the WRU wasted their money. I'm not saying we should change again - that would be more money wasted, I expect. But a dismal 6N and, to be generous, a par RWC is no great return for ~£1M spent to change the coaching team.

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

Yeah, but who have we been tested against? We've only shown 'coherence' against poor or average opposition and twice we've collapsed in the last 15 minutes. The only good team we've faced since the 6N was SA, who thrashed us. We've been beaten (albeit narrowly) by an average Argentina, and worst of all, we fell away as the match went on - we had no answer when our tactics didn't deliver and our fitness was matched by theirs (which is not really surprising - everyone gets fitter for the RWC).

[pompey-zebra]

I'm not going to call your opinion rubbish, but I disagree with it. We have been flattered by the poor quality in our side of the draw. A Pivac coached Wales would have been similarly flattered and would probably also have gotten to the quarters.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Gatland has failed. I'm saying he hasn't performed any better than Pivac was likely to have. So the WRU wasted their money. I'm not saying we should change again - that would be more money wasted, I expect. But a dismal 6N and, to be generous, a par RWC is no great return for ~£1M spent to change the coaching team.

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

Yeah, but who have we been tested against? We've only shown 'coherence' against poor or average opposition and twice we've collapsed in the last 15 minutes. The only good team we've faced since the 6N was SA, who thrashed us. We've been beaten (albeit narrowly) by an average Argentina, and worst of all, we fell away as the match went on - we had no answer when our tactics didn't deliver and our fitness was matched by theirs (which is not really surprising - everyone gets fitter for the RWC).

Youre right that the group was not the strongest of opposition compared to others. Yet it was made up of closely matched teams and Wales were comfortably the best of the lot, even if not flawless. The way Wales had played in the year or so before the world cup, there was a real.chance they they would not qualify as they'd lost to Australia and Georgia only last autumn. Since they won the 6n, under Pivac Wales looked lost as to what style and what players Pivac wanted, and that was reflected in the results. We'll never know if it would have all come together, but there was scant evidence a year ago that it would. Under Gatland, it didnt turn around immediately but there are signs it is now. Losing to Argentina yesterday was a setback, but it was only due to the recent improvements that we're as disappointed that we are. After losing to georgia and throwing away a big lead against Australia last year, I doubt many would have see this RWC performances coming.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

Yeah, but who have we been tested against? We've only shown 'coherence' against poor or average opposition and twice we've collapsed in the last 15 minutes. The only good team we've faced since the 6N was SA, who thrashed us. We've been beaten (albeit narrowly) by an average Argentina, and worst of all, we fell away as the match went on - we had no answer when our tactics didn't deliver and our fitness was matched by theirs (which is not really surprising - everyone gets fitter for the RWC).

Youre right that the group was not the strongest of opposition compared to others. Yet it was made up of closely matched teams and Wales were comfortably the best of the lot, even if not flawless. The way Wales had played in the year or so before the world cup, there was a real.chance they they would not qualify as they'd lost to Australia and Georgia only last autumn. Since they won the 6n, under Pivac Wales looked lost as to what style and what players Pivac wanted, and that was reflected in the results. We'll never know if it would have all come together, but there was scant evidence a year ago that it would. Under Gatland, it didnt turn around immediately but there are signs it is now. Losing to Argentina yesterday was a setback, but it was only due to the recent improvements that we're as disappointed that we are. After losing to georgia and throwing away a big lead against Australia last year, I doubt many would have see this RWC performances coming.

Sure, but I can pick positives from last year too, like beating SA at home for the first time ever, and beating Argentina. I respect your opinion but we disagree . As I said, I'm not saying I know Pivac would have been better but I don't see any conclusive argument that Gatland has been better either, so I see the expensive coach change as a waste of money.

[Sourdust]

In my eyes Gats has got us back to somewhere near what would have been the case had he never left: We're competitive again, but not able to challenge the very top sides. The fact that we simply no longer have a phalanx of world-class players to base a team on is no one person's fault, and I don't imagine the drop-off would have been better had Gats stayed. We would have seen a gradual shallow decline from 2019-now, rather than a massive dip followed by and ALMOST-equally-massive leap back.

[Sandydragon]

I'm not going to call your opinion rubbish, but I disagree with it. We have been flattered by the poor quality in our side of the draw. A Pivac coached Wales would have been similarly flattered and would probably also have gotten to the quarters.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Gatland has failed. I'm saying he hasn't performed any better than Pivac was likely to have. So the WRU wasted their money. I'm not saying we should change again - that would be more money wasted, I expect. But a dismal 6N and, to be generous, a par RWC is no great return for ~£1M spent to change the coaching team.

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

Yeah, but who have we been tested against? We've only shown 'coherence' against poor or average opposition and twice we've collapsed in the last 15 minutes. The only good team we've faced since the 6N was SA, who thrashed us. We've been beaten (albeit narrowly) by an average Argentina, and worst of all, we fell away as the match went on - we had no answer when our tactics didn't deliver and our fitness was matched by theirs (which is not really surprising - everyone gets fitter for the RWC).

We lost badly to a strong SA team while fielding one missing most of our first choice players. A loss is a loss but I think there’s some important context missing there.

[switchskier]

IMO: yellow card for Adams (it's not a tackle, it's a shoulder, off the ball, after the whistle), but restart with the penalty against Lavinini for the afters

My first reaction was red. It was a thought out cheap shot. Lavinnis reaction shouldn't change that and Argentina have ever right to be livid.

That’s never a red. A deserved yellow but nothing more.

Been traveling and need to watch it again, but at the time I thought that he deliberately put in a cheap shot on a player that wasn't playing, equivalent to throwing a punch. Which should be red. Ref evidently thought it wasn't deliberate, so pen only. In an odd way, the one thing it wasn't was yellow, unless you said it was a no-arms tackle.

[Numbers]

I think it's important to remember that Gatland had an extended period to get this squad ready, this is something he has excelled at prior to all the World Cups, Pivac never had that luxury..

[Sandydragon]

I think it's important to remember that Gatland had an extended period to get this squad ready, this is something he has excelled at prior to all the World Cups, Pivac never had that luxury..

It's a fair point. But then so have the other national coaches, Privac probably had more access to his players than the Georgian coach had prior to the AIs last year.

[Numbers]

I think it's important to remember that Gatland had an extended period to get this squad ready, this is something he has excelled at prior to all the World Cups, Pivac never had that luxury..

It's a fair point. But then so have the other national coaches, Privac probably had more access to his players than the Georgian coach had prior to the AIs last year.

Yes and he was experimenting with new players also, there is no substitue for having an extended period of time with the players, we aren't comparing Pivac with the Georgian coach we're comparing him to Gatland so your comment doesn't really hold any water.

[Sandydragon]

I think it's important to remember that Gatland had an extended period to get this squad ready, this is something he has excelled at prior to all the World Cups, Pivac never had that luxury..

It's a fair point. But then so have the other national coaches, Privac probably had more access to his players than the Georgian coach had prior to the AIs last year.

Yes and he was experimenting with new players also, there is no substitue for having an extended period of time with the players, we aren't comparing Pivac with the Georgian coach we're comparing him to Gatland so your comment doesn't really hold any water.

It does actually. The Georgian coach would have had less time with his squad than Privac did before the AIs. And all national coaches get more time with their teams prior to the RWC.

Yes Gatland had much more time with this Welsh squad than Privac did, but we were a shockingly bad team in the AIs and became a laughing stock. I don’t recall us being that bad under Gatland.

We lost to Italy, Georgia and an Australian second team at home under Privac. Defend his record if you want, but Gatland is worth every penny to get some self respect back.

[Graigwen]

I have just resurfaced after one of the worst weeks of my life (close relatives almost dying and collecting two medical diagnoses myself) I have come to terms with us not reaching the semis - I was banking on a win to cheer me up.

We could have won the Argentina game, we should have won the game, but we were the second best team on the pitch. Sure there were lots of bits of bad luck, but it was our own failings that let Argentina win. It probably does not matter in the short term, I am sure the All Blacks would have thumped us if we had reached the semis, just as they will thump the Argies tonight.

We come away from the World Cup with potentially the components of a really good team. Next years 6 Nations will be a good test of this idea.

.

[Sandydragon]

Sorry you’ve had a crap week mate.

It’s a slim sliver lining but watching the hammering the Argentinians are getting, it’s at least not is getting that battering.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I have just resurfaced after one of the worst weeks of my life (close relatives almost dying and collecting two medical diagnoses myself) I have come to terms with us not reaching the semis - I was banking on a win to cheer me up.

We could have won the Argentina game, we should have won the game, but we were the second best team on the pitch. Sure there were lots of bits of bad luck, but it was our own failings that let Argentina win. It probably does not matter in the short term, I am sure the All Blacks would have thumped us if we had reached the semis, just as they will thump the Argies tonight.

We come away from the World Cup with potentially the components of a really good team. Next years 6 Nations will be a good test of this idea.

.

Sorry to hear about that. The quarter final was not much of a cause for cheer! Good thing the URC starts today . . . although perhaps hopes for cheer from that direction may be limited too.

[pompey-zebra]

I have just resurfaced after one of the worst weeks of my life (close relatives almost dying and collecting two medical diagnoses myself) I have come to terms with us not reaching the semis - I was banking on a win to cheer me up.

We could have won the Argentina game, we should have won the game, but we were the second best team on the pitch. Sure there were lots of bits of bad luck, but it was our own failings that let Argentina win. It probably does not matter in the short term, I am sure the All Blacks would have thumped us if we had reached the semis, just as they will thump the Argies tonight.

We come away from the World Cup with potentially the components of a really good team. Next years 6 Nations will be a good test of this idea.

.

Sorry to hear about that. The quarter final was not much of a cause for cheer! Good thing the URC starts today . . . although perhaps hopes for cheer from that direction may be limited too.

Sorry to hear about your bad news, Graig. I'd avoid the Connacht v ospreys game if youre in need of cheering up.

[Sandydragon]

I have just resurfaced after one of the worst weeks of my life (close relatives almost dying and collecting two medical diagnoses myself) I have come to terms with us not reaching the semis - I was banking on a win to cheer me up.

We could have won the Argentina game, we should have won the game, but we were the second best team on the pitch. Sure there were lots of bits of bad luck, but it was our own failings that let Argentina win. It probably does not matter in the short term, I am sure the All Blacks would have thumped us if we had reached the semis, just as they will thump the Argies tonight.

We come away from the World Cup with potentially the components of a really good team. Next years 6 Nations will be a good test of this idea.

.

Sorry to hear about that. The quarter final was not much of a cause for cheer! Good thing the URC starts today . . . although perhaps hopes for cheer from that direction may be limited too.

Ospreys not doing anything to cheer anyone up at this moment in time.