Team for Argentina

[Oakboy]

Consensus seems to be with Dan, Lawrence and Arundell starting, but for the rest Sgt. Bilko will probs. play safe. Agree sentiment shoild not play part in selection.

Consensus where? Here? Or are there some hints from training bibs circulating?

Just read a pulsating Telegraph article where a bunch of journos named their teams. Pretty much entirely the same 23, with a few votes for those guys and Billy V dropping out (of most, but not all!) of the squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -play-off/

Truly thrilling stuff.

Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.

[FKAS]

Consensus seems to be with Dan, Lawrence and Arundell starting, but for the rest Sgt. Bilko will probs. play safe. Agree sentiment shoild not play part in selection.

Consensus where? Here? Or are there some hints from training bibs circulating?

Just read a pulsating Telegraph article where a bunch of journos named their teams. Pretty much entirely the same 23, with a few votes for those guys and Billy V dropping out (of most, but not all!) of the squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -play-off/

Truly thrilling stuff.

Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.

I'd agree. Borthwick's starting XV should be all players he anticipates featuring heavily in the 6N. There could be chance for say Lawes or Youngs to get their final bows from the bench maybe but emphasis should be on the guys that are sticking around.

I suspect Borthwick will select a team to win and the 23 that he thinks will best deliver his tactics over the 80 mins as normal as opposed to sentimentality or a particular future focus though.

[Mellsblue]

Consensus seems to be with Dan, Lawrence and Arundell starting, but for the rest Sgt. Bilko will probs. play safe. Agree sentiment shoild not play part in selection.

Consensus where? Here? Or are there some hints from training bibs circulating?

Just read a pulsating Telegraph article where a bunch of journos named their teams. Pretty much entirely the same 23, with a few votes for those guys and Billy V dropping out (of most, but not all!) of the squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -play-off/

Truly thrilling stuff.

Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.

Who do you think doesn’t want to play?

[fivepointer]

Borthwick will surely pick the team that he thinks has the best chance of winning the game. That is bound to include players for whom it will be their swansong and may exclude players who will be in the team post WC.

[Banquo]

Borthwick will surely pick the team that he thinks has the best chance of winning the game. That is bound to include players for whom it will be their swansong and may exclude players who will be in the team post WC.

Should be a meritocracy, that has to be the right team culture. No sentiment or presentiment- because of the ranking points, and because its an international game (even if no one likes the principle) it has to be treated with the right level of respect.

[rjjb]

Smith, Steward & Arundell back three according to Will Kelleher.....

[Mellsblue]

Smith, Steward & Arundell back three according to Will Kelleher.....

The Nose giveth with one hand and punches you in the balls with the other.

[Banquo]

Smith, Steward & Arundell back three according to Will Kelleher.....

weird

[Oakboy]

Consensus where? Here? Or are there some hints from training bibs circulating?

Just read a pulsating Telegraph article where a bunch of journos named their teams. Pretty much entirely the same 23, with a few votes for those guys and Billy V dropping out (of most, but not all!) of the squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -play-off/

Truly thrilling stuff.

Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.

Who do you think doesn’t want to play?

No idea from anything reported but players' minds must already be switching to club duty. Might George, for example, think he has done enough and not wish to risk injury?

[rjjb]

Smith, Steward & Arundell back three according to Will Kelleher.....

weird

Don't like it personally. Distinct whiff of trying to crowbar (favourite word now!) Steward & Smith into the team. And Steward doesn't have a winger's pace or agility.

[Banquo]

Fck me- the RFU want us to do selection now

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... -argentina

[Mellsblue]

Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.

Who do you think doesn’t want to play?

No idea from anything reported but players' minds must already be switching to club duty. Might George, for example, think he has done enough and not wish to risk injury?

I doubt there’s a single player in the squad that doesn’t want to play.

[Oakboy]

Who do you think doesn’t want to play?

No idea from anything reported but players' minds must already be switching to club duty. Might George, for example, think he has done enough and not wish to risk injury?

I doubt there’s a single player in the squad that doesn’t want to play.

Maybe, there's nobody who would risk saying they did not want to. But I'd guess that if they could choose between the match taking place or going home any members of the public on the ferry ramp would be trampled underfoot.

[Banquo]

Fck me- the RFU want us to do selection now

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... -argentina

Just looking quickly at the %ages the team would look like (adjusting for positional double counts)

Genge
George
Cole
Itoje
Lawes
Martin
Curry
Earl
Mitchell
Arundell
Daly
Marchant
Arundell (:) -- May
Arundell (:) -- Steward

[FKAS]

England: Smith; Steward, Marchant, Tuilagi, Arundell; Farrell (capt), Youngs; Genge, Dan, Stuart, Itoje, Chessum, Curry, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: George, Rodd, Cole, Ribbans, Ludlam, Care, Ford, Lawrence.

Well it's a bit of a change up.

[Oakboy]

Why is George on the bench and not Walker?

[jngf]

Underhill back at 7 ! - Swash Butler I could you - that cheques in the post btw

[jngf]

Ommpa, Ommpa, stick that up ya junta!!!!

[Puja]

That is certainly a XV of some shape or description. Seems to be an attempt to give game time to everyone who's not had much at the RWC so far, which I suppose is a fair approach. (ETA - I had forgotten about the existence of Jack Walker, although in my defence, it appears that Steel Bandersnatch has as well).

No swansong for Courtney - could be down to the player himself preferring to go out on an important game where he played well, rather than in this nothing match? I will admit, I'm quite looking forward to seeing Cunderhearl in action.

Puja

[jngf]

England: Smith; Steward, Marchant, Tuilagi, Arundell; Farrell (capt), Youngs; Genge, Dan, Stuart, Itoje, Chessum, Curry, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: George, Rodd, Cole, Ribbans, Ludlam, Care, Ford, Lawrence.

Well it's a bit of a change up.

Billy been sent on an RFU all expenses paid trip to health farm?

[Danno]

Fck me- the RFU want us to do selection now

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... -argentina

It's about bloody time

[Mellsblue]

No idea from anything reported but players' minds must already be switching to club duty. Might George, for example, think he has done enough and not wish to risk injury?

I doubt there’s a single player in the squad that doesn’t want to play.

Maybe, there's nobody who would risk saying they did not want to. But I'd guess that if they could choose between the match taking place or going home any members of the public on the ferry ramp would be trampled underfoot.

You’ve moved the goalposts to a fiction but even if that scenario were real, knowing how pro athletes are wired, I reckon they’d all want to finish the tournament on a win.

[Mellsblue]

Eerrghh.
I don’t like the Smith experiment or Steward on the wing. Youngs is surely a sentimental pick, unless Mitchell is injured, which has no place in pro sport, if it is. Martin should have been allowed to backup his performance from last week, assuming he’s not injured. Not sure of the thinking behind how Underhill has been handled over the last four months or his selection for this weekend.
Glad to see Arundell and Dan start, but surely the latter should be in his preferred position. The backs look like muddied thinking again.
Is Malins the only player not to feature in a match day squad?

[Mikey Brown]

Feels weird that we won't see Lawes again.

Underhill's reappearance ahead of Ludlam seems strange too, but maybe there have been fitness concerns there? Though I'm never unhappy to see him in the team if he can keep his head out of harms way. Shame not see Martin again but Ribbans is decent, even if it's a bit weird with him leaving for France.

Youngs? Well obviously.

Nothing to discuss regarding that back three.

[Insouciant]

Weird looking team in terms of possible justifications for selections. It's definitely nice to see Underhill and Arundell get a run out, although given the half backs, will Arundell see the ball? Ludlam could be starting for Curry but that back row does look pretty good. Thought Lawrence might get a start. Steward probably deserved a rest and I'm guessing is there to support Smith with the high ball. Smith at 15 has potential, he does have something - but how you squeeze it into a team with our current captain starting (and 10) is not instantly obvious. Also, poor overlooked George Ford with his 'different role' of bench warmer.

After last week, I'm interested in the front row. How will that go & how will the replacements fit in? Stuart hasn't shone at all. Dan looks a decent prospect. It's one of the areas we seem to be lacking depth/talent. Feel a bit for Walker - it's a bit grim for him to get so little time but it must be part of the plan as Swiftly Bucephalus is a tactical genius (apparently).