New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[Gloskarlos]

Mercer gone under the knife on Monday for an ankle injury. Doubt we will see him again this year. FFS.

[Slater582]

Mercer will be "out for a few months" according to Skivington.

Thought this was quite interesting - RFU putting together focussed training camps for the most promising 16-19 y/o props, hookers, and locks to create a production line of front five forwards: https://12ft.io/www.telegraph.co.uk/rug ... world-cup/

Seems unnaturally forward thinking and joined up for English rugby. Let's just hope half of them don't get poached by the Welsh.

Puja

Didn't we talk about it a few weeks ago? Or was that on a different board?

Either way, it's a really good idea, and reports from Bath's contingent were really positive about it afterwards

Entirely possible - my memory issues mean I get new joy out of discovering things for the first time that I've already talked about at length previously.

I'm assuming Sela was one of the attendees - do we know who else was on the list?

Puja

My apologies, I had simply forgotten about your memory issues.
I don't recall there being a full list of invitees, but something like 50-60 of them

In the Telegraph article Puja linked it states 26 players attended. Sela was indeed one of them.

► Show Spoiler

ENGLAND PATHWAY SQUAD FOR FRONT FIVE DEVELOPMENT CAMP

Aiden Ainsworth-Cave (Northampton Saints)
Finn Baker (Newcastle Falcons) *
Jonno Balding (Gloucester Rugby)
Oscar Beckerleg (Exeter Chiefs) *
Jack Bennett (Bath Rugby) *
Tom Burrow (Sale Sharks) *
Will Conduit (Midlands West Academy) *
Ronan Daniell (Harlequins) *
Tom Davis (Sale Sharks)
Charlie Evered (Exeter Chiefs)
Rob Gaffan (Northampton Saints)
Sam Graham (Newcastle Falcons) *
Lucas Gulley (Exeter Chiefs)
Patrick Hogg (Newcastle Falcons)
James Isaacs (Saracens) *
Scott Kirk (Bath Rugby) *
Jack Lightbown (Sale Sharks) *
Alfie Longstaff (Yorkshire Academy) *
Josh Mann (Exeter Chiefs)
Cameron Miell (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie Miller (Harlequins)
Tye Raymont (Sale Sharks) *
Billy Sela (Bath Rugby) *
Sonny Tonga’uiha (Northampton Saints)
Kepueli Tuipulotu (London & South Central Academy) *
Ben Woodmansy (Exeter Chiefs)
* denotes a previously capped layer at pathway level

Bath press release: https://www.bathrugby.com/content/benne ... pment-camp
Newcastle press release: https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/trio ... five-camp/

[Puja]

Nathan Catt joining as England pathways scrum coach: https://www.bathrugby.com/content/natha ... crum-coach

Puja

[FKAS]

Nathan Catt joining as England pathways scrum coach: https://www.bathrugby.com/content/natha ... crum-coach

Puja

Makes sense though given this was part of Harrison's job at Tigers as well as scrum coach you'd have hoped he'd have had an influence in this as well.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Mercer will be "out for a few months" according to Skivington.

Thought this was quite interesting - RFU putting together focussed training camps for the most promising 16-19 y/o props, hookers, and locks to create a production line of front five forwards: https://12ft.io/www.telegraph.co.uk/rug ... world-cup/

Seems unnaturally forward thinking and joined up for English rugby. Let's just hope half of them don't get poached by the Welsh.

Puja

Didn't we talk about it a few weeks ago? Or was that on a different board?

Either way, it's a really good idea, and reports from Bath's contingent were really positive about it afterwards

Entirely possible - my memory issues mean I get new joy out of discovering things for the first time that I've already talked about at length previously.

I'm assuming Sela was one of the attendees - do we know who else was on the list?

Puja

My apologies, I had simply forgotten about your memory issues.
I don't recall there being a full list of invitees, but something like 50-60 of them

In the Telegraph article Puja linked it states 26 players attended. Sela was indeed one of them.

► Show Spoiler

ENGLAND PATHWAY SQUAD FOR FRONT FIVE DEVELOPMENT CAMP

Aiden Ainsworth-Cave (Northampton Saints)
Finn Baker (Newcastle Falcons) *
Jonno Balding (Gloucester Rugby)
Oscar Beckerleg (Exeter Chiefs) *
Jack Bennett (Bath Rugby) *
Tom Burrow (Sale Sharks) *
Will Conduit (Midlands West Academy) *
Ronan Daniell (Harlequins) *
Tom Davis (Sale Sharks)
Charlie Evered (Exeter Chiefs)
Rob Gaffan (Northampton Saints)
Sam Graham (Newcastle Falcons) *
Lucas Gulley (Exeter Chiefs)
Patrick Hogg (Newcastle Falcons)
James Isaacs (Saracens) *
Scott Kirk (Bath Rugby) *
Jack Lightbown (Sale Sharks) *
Alfie Longstaff (Yorkshire Academy) *
Josh Mann (Exeter Chiefs)
Cameron Miell (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie Miller (Harlequins)
Tye Raymont (Sale Sharks) *
Billy Sela (Bath Rugby) *
Sonny Tonga’uiha (Northampton Saints)
Kepueli Tuipulotu (London & South Central Academy) *
Ben Woodmansy (Exeter Chiefs)
* denotes a previously capped layer at pathway level

Bath press release: https://www.bathrugby.com/content/benne ... pment-camp
Newcastle press release: https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/trio ... five-camp/

My eldest had the misfortune of playing against Sonny. It did not end well!

[FKAS]

Mercer will be "out for a few months" according to Skivington.

Thought this was quite interesting - RFU putting together focussed training camps for the most promising 16-19 y/o props, hookers, and locks to create a production line of front five forwards: https://12ft.io/www.telegraph.co.uk/rug ... world-cup/

Seems unnaturally forward thinking and joined up for English rugby. Let's just hope half of them don't get poached by the Welsh.

Puja

Entirely possible - my memory issues mean I get new joy out of discovering things for the first time that I've already talked about at length previously.

I'm assuming Sela was one of the attendees - do we know who else was on the list?

Puja

My apologies, I had simply forgotten about your memory issues.
I don't recall there being a full list of invitees, but something like 50-60 of them

In the Telegraph article Puja linked it states 26 players attended. Sela was indeed one of them.

► Show Spoiler

ENGLAND PATHWAY SQUAD FOR FRONT FIVE DEVELOPMENT CAMP

Aiden Ainsworth-Cave (Northampton Saints)
Finn Baker (Newcastle Falcons) *
Jonno Balding (Gloucester Rugby)
Oscar Beckerleg (Exeter Chiefs) *
Jack Bennett (Bath Rugby) *
Tom Burrow (Sale Sharks) *
Will Conduit (Midlands West Academy) *
Ronan Daniell (Harlequins) *
Tom Davis (Sale Sharks)
Charlie Evered (Exeter Chiefs)
Rob Gaffan (Northampton Saints)
Sam Graham (Newcastle Falcons) *
Lucas Gulley (Exeter Chiefs)
Patrick Hogg (Newcastle Falcons)
James Isaacs (Saracens) *
Scott Kirk (Bath Rugby) *
Jack Lightbown (Sale Sharks) *
Alfie Longstaff (Yorkshire Academy) *
Josh Mann (Exeter Chiefs)
Cameron Miell (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie Miller (Harlequins)
Tye Raymont (Sale Sharks) *
Billy Sela (Bath Rugby) *
Sonny Tonga’uiha (Northampton Saints)
Kepueli Tuipulotu (London & South Central Academy) *
Ben Woodmansy (Exeter Chiefs)
* denotes a previously capped layer at pathway level

Bath press release: https://www.bathrugby.com/content/benne ... pment-camp
Newcastle press release: https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/trio ... five-camp/

My eldest had the misfortune of playing against Sonny. It did not end well!

If he's a chip off the same mountain as his dad that's not surprising.

[16th man]

Mercer will be "out for a few months" according to Skivington.

Thought this was quite interesting - RFU putting together focussed training camps for the most promising 16-19 y/o props, hookers, and locks to create a production line of front five forwards: https://12ft.io/www.telegraph.co.uk/rug ... world-cup/

Seems unnaturally forward thinking and joined up for English rugby. Let's just hope half of them don't get poached by the Welsh.

Puja

Didn't we talk about it a few weeks ago? Or was that on a different board?

Either way, it's a really good idea, and reports from Bath's contingent were really positive about it afterwards

Entirely possible - my memory issues mean I get new joy out of discovering things for the first time that I've already talked about at length previously.

I'm assuming Sela was one of the attendees - do we know who else was on the list?

Puja

My apologies, I had simply forgotten about your memory issues.
I don't recall there being a full list of invitees, but something like 50-60 of them

In the Telegraph article Puja linked it states 26 players attended. Sela was indeed one of them.

► Show Spoiler

ENGLAND PATHWAY SQUAD FOR FRONT FIVE DEVELOPMENT CAMP

Aiden Ainsworth-Cave (Northampton Saints)
Finn Baker (Newcastle Falcons) *
Jonno Balding (Gloucester Rugby)
Oscar Beckerleg (Exeter Chiefs) *
Jack Bennett (Bath Rugby) *
Tom Burrow (Sale Sharks) *
Will Conduit (Midlands West Academy) *
Ronan Daniell (Harlequins) *
Tom Davis (Sale Sharks)
Charlie Evered (Exeter Chiefs)
Rob Gaffan (Northampton Saints)
Sam Graham (Newcastle Falcons) *
Lucas Gulley (Exeter Chiefs)
Patrick Hogg (Newcastle Falcons)
James Isaacs (Saracens) *
Scott Kirk (Bath Rugby) *
Jack Lightbown (Sale Sharks) *
Alfie Longstaff (Yorkshire Academy) *
Josh Mann (Exeter Chiefs)
Cameron Miell (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie Miller (Harlequins)
Tye Raymont (Sale Sharks) *
Billy Sela (Bath Rugby) *
Sonny Tonga’uiha (Northampton Saints)
Kepueli Tuipulotu (London & South Central Academy) *
Ben Woodmansy (Exeter Chiefs)
* denotes a previously capped layer at pathway level

Bath press release: https://www.bathrugby.com/content/benne ... pment-camp
Newcastle press release: https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/trio ... five-camp/

Wonder if they'll be sufficiently forward thinking as to talk about exercises to protect necks and backs, and the importance of listening to your body and appreciating that minor issues at their age can quickly became major problems if not looked after properly when they get older.

Essentially trying to equip them with the knowledge to not become the next round of promising youngsters who are lost due to borked spines and recurring injuries by the time they're 25.

[FKAS]

As Catt retired early due to long term injury you'd hope he'd advise on looking after your body with the view of wanting a long career.

[Spartan Shark]

Asher Opoku-Fordjour looked good in his first outing in the Prem for Sale on Friday night.

He looked good for the U20's in South Africa in the summer and hoping he can kick on. Hope playing alongside Creevy and LCD can help his development

[Puja]

Asher Opoku-Fordjour looked good in his first outing in the Prem for Sale on Friday night.

He looked good for the U20's in South Africa in the summer and hoping he can kick on. Hope playing alongside Creevy and LCD can help his development

He's also got Schonert to learn from, who's got a load of experience, yet is also old enough that he's not going to unduly block his route to first team rugby in time.

ETA. I cocked up and thought AOF was a tighthead, not a loosehead. My mistake.

Puja

[Danno]

Asher Opoku-Fordjour looked good in his first outing in the Prem for Sale on Friday night.

He looked good for the U20's in South Africa in the summer and hoping he can kick on. Hope playing alongside Creevy and LCD can help his development

If you can't learn anything from those 2 you're either a prodigy or a moron

[twitchy]

I put money on the fact that times journo Will Kelleher reads RR.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0cf6 ... 2eea991b62

"Owen Farrell: I have no England retirement plans"

With this photo.



lol

[Oakboy]

I put money on the fact that times journo Will Kelleher reads RR.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0cf6 ... 2eea991b62

"Owen Farrell: I have no England retirement plans"

With this photo.



lol

Posts like this should be banned. They are too distressing.

[Mellsblue]

I put money on the fact that times journo Will Kelleher reads RR.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0cf6 ... 2eea991b62

"Owen Farrell: I have no England retirement plans"

With this photo.



lol

Posts like this should be banned. They are too distressing.

We need a safe space forum where we can pretend England have discovered an entire front row who are rock solid at the set piece and run round the pitch like centres, Raffi Quirke is immune to injury, Marcus Smith is set-up to make the most of his talents whilst learning game management sponge like from George Ford, S. Atkinson and Kelly have already fulfilled their potential and are both world class and Arundell is playing 15 at Racing and looks as though he is a lab creation using the dna of Cullen, Robinson, Lewsey and Poitrenaud.
I would add WR rescinding RICH LANE!!!’s test ban but I’m trying to be realistic.

[Oakboy]

I put money on the fact that times journo Will Kelleher reads RR.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0cf6 ... 2eea991b62

"Owen Farrell: I have no England retirement plans"

With this photo.



lol

Posts like this should be banned. They are too distressing.

We need a safe space forum where we can pretend England have discovered an entire front row who are rock solid at the set piece and run round the pitch like centres, Raffi Quirke is immune to injury, Marcus Smith is set-up to make the most of his talents whilst learning game management sponge like from George Ford, S. Atkinson and Kelly have already fulfilled their potential and are both world class and Arundell is playing 15 at Racing and looks as though he is a lab creation using the dna of Cullen, Robinson, Lewsey and Poitrenaud.
I would add WR rescinding RICH LANE!!!’s test ban but I’m trying to be realistic.

The irony is that some of what you wish for is not in fantasy land. I doubt we'll see much of it achieved without an acceptance that we might have to go backwards to go forwards. And, players whose best is not good enough (based on past performance) still need dumping even if there is nobody who is better today. Tomorrow is what counts.

[p/d]

I put money on the fact that times journo Will Kelleher reads RR.

We need a safe space forum where we can pretend England have discovered an entire front row who are rock solid at the set piece and run round the pitch like centres, Raffi Quirke is immune to injury, Marcus Smith is set-up to make the most of his talents whilst learning game management sponge like from George Ford, S. Atkinson and Kelly have already fulfilled their potential and are both world class and Arundell is playing 15 at Racing and looks as though he is a lab creation using the dna of Cullen, Robinson, Lewsey and Poitrenaud.
I would add WR rescinding RICH LANE!!!’s test ban but I’m trying to be realistic.

Agree twitchy. Just surprised he is such a fan of rich lane

[Banquo]

Posts like this should be banned. They are too distressing.

We need a safe space forum where we can pretend England have discovered an entire front row who are rock solid at the set piece and run round the pitch like centres, Raffi Quirke is immune to injury, Marcus Smith is set-up to make the most of his talents whilst learning game management sponge like from George Ford, S. Atkinson and Kelly have already fulfilled their potential and are both world class and Arundell is playing 15 at Racing and looks as though he is a lab creation using the dna of Cullen, Robinson, Lewsey and Poitrenaud.
I would add WR rescinding RICH LANE!!!’s test ban but I’m trying to be realistic.

Tomorrow is what counts.

Nope, today is what counts.

[Mellsblue]

Selecting players who aren’t quite ready and putting them in a poor team has never been good for their development.

[p/d]

Selecting players who aren’t quite ready and putting them in a poor team has never been good for their development.

Not sure this is a 'poor team'.

I agree just throwing 'potential players' in ad-hoc would most likely set them back, but I don't see why Smith starting at 10 with an Atkinson or Kelly at 12 would be an issue.

What won't work is playing Farrell at 10/12 and then asking him to throw a ball for his 2 willing labradors to chase whilst our first choice 15 catches the ball that returns with interest.

As for props, we are where we are. The one thing we do need to do is get those deemed not quite ready into the squad.

[Mellsblue]

9. Mitchell/Quirke/JVP
10. Smith
12. Atkinson/Kelly
13. Lawrence

Is, if I’m being kind, brave. Add in the fact you’ll probs have a callow no8, unless Earl is the long term option, an out of form Steward and callow wingers…

[Oakboy]

9. Mitchell/Quirke/JVP
10. Smith
12. Atkinson/Kelly
13. Lawrence

Is, if I’m being kind, brave. Add in the fact you’ll probs have a callow no8, unless Earl is the long term option, an out of form Steward and callow wingers…

The whole point, IMO, is that those names together with the likes of Arundell, T Willis etc. MAY have a higher ceiling than Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi, Vunipola etc. Our standard with the old guard was not good enough as successive 6Ns showed. We won't improve till we pick players who can potentially improve the standard, individually and collectively.

We have been 20 years with conservative selection, poor coaching and mostly poor results/performances. What is there to lose by taking risks now? We can't get any worse in terms of the 6N anyway.

[Mellsblue]

9. Mitchell/Quirke/JVP
10. Smith
12. Atkinson/Kelly
13. Lawrence

Is, if I’m being kind, brave. Add in the fact you’ll probs have a callow no8, unless Earl is the long term option, an out of form Steward and callow wingers…

The whole point, IMO, is that those names together with the likes of Arundell, T Willis etc. MAY have a higher ceiling than Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi, Vunipola etc. Our standard with the old guard was not good enough as successive 6Ns showed. We won't improve till we pick players who can potentially improve the standard, individually and collectively.

We have been 20 years with conservative selection, poor coaching and mostly poor results/performances. What is there to lose by taking risks now? We can't get any worse in terms of the 6N anyway.

But that’s moving from one extreme to the other when the answer lies in the middle, ie drip feed your most promising players into a team surrounded by experienced test players. I do feel sorry for Still Backwaters as Jones’s succession planning* was abysmal, and I have sympathy with your view for the same reason, but putting out a backline of newbies won’t, imo, do anything for their or the team’s development.
Him pissing off Marchant so much that he moved to the other end of the Eurostar may be his ‘best’ piece of work.

[Oakboy]

9. Mitchell/Quirke/JVP
10. Smith
12. Atkinson/Kelly
13. Lawrence

Is, if I’m being kind, brave. Add in the fact you’ll probs have a callow no8, unless Earl is the long term option, an out of form Steward and callow wingers…

The whole point, IMO, is that those names together with the likes of Arundell, T Willis etc. MAY have a higher ceiling than Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi, Vunipola etc. Our standard with the old guard was not good enough as successive 6Ns showed. We won't improve till we pick players who can potentially improve the standard, individually and collectively.

We have been 20 years with conservative selection, poor coaching and mostly poor results/performances. What is there to lose by taking risks now? We can't get any worse in terms of the 6N anyway.

But that’s moving from one extreme to the other when the answer lies in the middle, ie drip feed your most promising players into a team surrounded by experienced test players. I do feel sorry for Still Backwaters as Jones’s succession planning* was abysmal, and I have sympathy with your view for the same reason, but putting out a backline of newbies won’t, imo, do anything for their or the team’s development.
Him pissing off Marchant so much that he moved to the other end of the Eurostar may be his ‘best’ piece of work.

I understand your view but that means Farrell at 10 for the next four years. We may not think he is our best FH but all head-coaches do. If getting rid of him means radical change and risk I'm for it. Frankly, if he stays at 10 my interest in rugby will be unlikely to sustain. I just can't face it.

[Mellsblue]

The whole point, IMO, is that those names together with the likes of Arundell, T Willis etc. MAY have a higher ceiling than Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi, Vunipola etc. Our standard with the old guard was not good enough as successive 6Ns showed. We won't improve till we pick players who can potentially improve the standard, individually and collectively.

We have been 20 years with conservative selection, poor coaching and mostly poor results/performances. What is there to lose by taking risks now? We can't get any worse in terms of the 6N anyway.

But that’s moving from one extreme to the other when the answer lies in the middle, ie drip feed your most promising players into a team surrounded by experienced test players. I do feel sorry for Still Backwaters as Jones’s succession planning* was abysmal, and I have sympathy with your view for the same reason, but putting out a backline of newbies won’t, imo, do anything for their or the team’s development.
Him pissing off Marchant so much that he moved to the other end of the Eurostar may be his ‘best’ piece of work.

I understand your view but that means Farrell at 10 for the next four years. We may not think he is our best FH but all head-coaches do. If getting rid of him means radical change and risk I'm for it. Frankly, if he stays at 10 my interest in rugby will be unlikely to sustain. I just can't face it.

We are talking hypotheticals - unless you believe Silky Brassiere would select my mooted backline - in which case I have Ford with the young 9s and 12s either side of him.

[FKAS]

9. Mitchell/Quirke/JVP
10. Smith
12. Atkinson/Kelly
13. Lawrence

Is, if I’m being kind, brave. Add in the fact you’ll probs have a callow no8, unless Earl is the long term option, an out of form Steward and callow wingers…

Steward played better at the end of the RWC than he did at the start. He's been solid back at Tigers. Some actual hints he'll be used more as a link option in the backs in a similar way to when Ford was at Tigers again. I'm more worried about Kelly's form.

Anthony Watson should be fit and playing again by the 6N so one winger with less experience and a settled 14/15.

Will Quirke and JVP be back in time for the 6N? JVP probably not.

Backrow could be a real problem with the number of injuries that are coming up. Earl and Curry could both be out. Has Lawes retired now?