We obvs have very different idea of what winning looks like.FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:24 pmSecond and third at the last two world cups. Four European cup wins in the last eights years. Three 6N titles in those 8 years.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:28 pmWe can categorically state we’re not winning anything with the status quo.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:19 pm I can’t say I’ve had the thought recently that England aren’t winning things because of a player being unavailable in France.
Pretty solid last two world cup cycles. Can't really say we aren't winning things or placing well.
There's certainly room for improvement but devaluing the Premiership isn't the way to get there. Currently the possibility of international caps and the £20k a time appearance fee keeps some big names in England.
Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
I certainly like watching the one who played FH but moving him there to do so in Ford's absence, by definition, prevented an EQP wearing the shirt. Whether Sale had one is not really the argument because, should stronger EQP representation rules exist, they would have had to have done. I was only suggesting that if we lost three clubs, as we did, there was less excuse - together with my overall doubts about what is 'best for English rugby' (even how we define it).16th man wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:19 pmIn principle you'd appear to have a point, but in practice it's pretty hard to argue that the Du Preez twins have had a negative impact on English back row options, or that their older brother has been blocking an outstanding candidate at 10 or 13 getting game time. There has been a bit of a revolving door of others but they've generally trended to the higher quality, good to have improving the standard of the league end of the spectrum.Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:27 pmAgreed. That's the point, though. What is good for Saracens is bad for England! Itoje is far more important than Farrell to the international set-up. That's one example but is it a trend?FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:19 pm
Tom Willis has been in the match day squad for five rounds of the PRC and all seven rounds of the Prem. Two off the bench starting the other five games. A sound bit of rotation isn't a bad thing and he's playing plenty. In his final season at Wasps he played 1,304 mins (similar last season with Wasps/Bordeaux) and he's up to 767 already this season. Makes sense to bring in BillyV to take on some of the load.
Farrell over Itoje is stupid long term but in the short term does make sense. There will be second rows on the market next summer. Not much in the way of flyhalfs on the market.
Add on the SA influence at Sale and possibly the Welsh core at Exeter. At a time when three clubs have gone, should the RFU be finding a way to support clubs more in developing a dominance of EQP?
If I was going to start a 10 team premiership today, I'd have a 'maximum 2 non-EQPs in the XV and 3 in the 23' rule. Dealing with the status quo is obviously different and harder.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
As discussed earlier in the thread vis-a-vis Itoje, spending the spare £££ on foreign test players doesn't get you as much bang for your buck as home-grown quality that's subsidised by loyalty and EPS money. Plus "spare money" is likely to be a myth once wage inflation from letting the French league compete on level terms for EQP kicks in - any money saved is likely to be lost trying to keep your other EQP.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:35 amI’m not arguing that we’re missing anyone under the current rules. I’m arguing that allowing our best players to move abroad for a one or two years to experience a different league and coaches may improve that player for England in the long term - it seemed to work for Marchant - whilst also allowing younger EQP to play more games in the Prem, therefore benefitting England in the even longer term, and/or spending the spare £££ on test players from other nations.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:26 pmYeah but what were we even missing? Kieran Brookes? Zach Henry?
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
It doesn’t but does the allure for new eyeballs of an All Black for 1 or 2 seasons outweigh another 1 or 2 seasons of watching Itoje?Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:52 amAs discussed earlier in the thread vis-a-vis Itoje, spending the spare £££ on foreign test players doesn't get you as much bang for your buck as home-grown quality that's subsidised by loyalty and EPS money. Plus "spare money" is likely to be a myth once wage inflation from letting the French league compete on level terms for EQP kicks in - any money saved is likely to be lost trying to keep your other EQP.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:35 amI’m not arguing that we’re missing anyone under the current rules. I’m arguing that allowing our best players to move abroad for a one or two years to experience a different league and coaches may improve that player for England in the long term - it seemed to work for Marchant - whilst also allowing younger EQP to play more games in the Prem, therefore benefitting England in the even longer term, and/or spending the spare £££ on test players from other nations.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:26 pm
Yeah but what were we even missing? Kieran Brookes? Zach Henry?
Puja
The French league can only absorb so many foreigners, both JIFF and €€€, and the PRL salary cap, plus mooted min squad size, will mean salaries could only rise so far, it at all.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
How would we get an All Black, considering we can't afford to compete for them now?Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:59 amIt doesn’t but does the allure for new eyeballs of an All Black for 1 or 2 seasons outweigh another 1 or 2 seasons of watching Itoje?Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:52 amAs discussed earlier in the thread vis-a-vis Itoje, spending the spare £££ on foreign test players doesn't get you as much bang for your buck as home-grown quality that's subsidised by loyalty and EPS money. Plus "spare money" is likely to be a myth once wage inflation from letting the French league compete on level terms for EQP kicks in - any money saved is likely to be lost trying to keep your other EQP.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:35 am
I’m not arguing that we’re missing anyone under the current rules. I’m arguing that allowing our best players to move abroad for a one or two years to experience a different league and coaches may improve that player for England in the long term - it seemed to work for Marchant - whilst also allowing younger EQP to play more games in the Prem, therefore benefitting England in the even longer term, and/or spending the spare £££ on test players from other nations.
Puja
The French league can only absorb so many foreigners, both JIFF and €€€, and the PRL salary cap, plus mooted min squad size, will mean salaries could only rise so far, it at all.
There are 30 teams across the T14 and Pro D2 - there's quite a bit of room there. And min squad size may just mean that there's a bunch of academy players on minimum wage to bulk it out.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/ot ... by-8939629Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:44 pm Regan Grace training in/with Bath
Thought to be rehabbing locally, rather than a first look, but... It's gotta be a first look too
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
With the salary cap going up I’m sure we can tempt somebody.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:45 amHow would we get an All Black, considering we can't afford to compete for them now?Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:59 amIt doesn’t but does the allure for new eyeballs of an All Black for 1 or 2 seasons outweigh another 1 or 2 seasons of watching Itoje?Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:52 am
As discussed earlier in the thread vis-a-vis Itoje, spending the spare £££ on foreign test players doesn't get you as much bang for your buck as home-grown quality that's subsidised by loyalty and EPS money. Plus "spare money" is likely to be a myth once wage inflation from letting the French league compete on level terms for EQP kicks in - any money saved is likely to be lost trying to keep your other EQP.
Puja
The French league can only absorb so many foreigners, both JIFF and €€€, and the PRL salary cap, plus mooted min squad size, will mean salaries could only rise so far, it at all.
There are 30 teams across the T14 and Pro D2 - there's quite a bit of room there. And min squad size may just mean that there's a bunch of academy players on minimum wage to bulk it out.
Puja
Academy players getting more Prem action? Brilliant news.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
I doubt it. France is only getting a few, Japan is mopping them up. More money, shorter season and a lot closer to home.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:15 amWith the salary cap going up I’m sure we can tempt somebody.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:45 amHow would we get an All Black, considering we can't afford to compete for them now?Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:59 am
It doesn’t but does the allure for new eyeballs of an All Black for 1 or 2 seasons outweigh another 1 or 2 seasons of watching Itoje?
The French league can only absorb so many foreigners, both JIFF and €€€, and the PRL salary cap, plus mooted min squad size, will mean salaries could only rise so far, it at all.
There are 30 teams across the T14 and Pro D2 - there's quite a bit of room there. And min squad size may just mean that there's a bunch of academy players on minimum wage to bulk it out.
Puja
Academy players getting more Prem action? Brilliant news.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
In a weakened league, leaving them less hardened and stymieing their development? Less brilliant.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:15 amWith the salary cap going up I’m sure we can tempt somebody.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:45 amHow would we get an All Black, considering we can't afford to compete for them now?Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:59 am
It doesn’t but does the allure for new eyeballs of an All Black for 1 or 2 seasons outweigh another 1 or 2 seasons of watching Itoje?
The French league can only absorb so many foreigners, both JIFF and €€€, and the PRL salary cap, plus mooted min squad size, will mean salaries could only rise so far, it at all.
There are 30 teams across the T14 and Pro D2 - there's quite a bit of room there. And min squad size may just mean that there's a bunch of academy players on minimum wage to bulk it out.
Puja
Academy players getting more Prem action? Brilliant news.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
I guess we’ll never know but we could perhaps hold on to Randradra, Feikitoa, Skelton etc and perhaps tempt the likes of Kolisi, Nyakane and Whitelock. Imagine if Sarries announced that they were losing Itoje for two years but were bring in Etzebeth or de Jager to replace him. Everyone wins.FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:02 pmI doubt it. France is only getting a few, Japan is mopping them up. More money, shorter season and a lot closer to home.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:15 amWith the salary cap going up I’m sure we can tempt somebody.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:45 am
How would we get an All Black, considering we can't afford to compete for them now?
There are 30 teams across the T14 and Pro D2 - there's quite a bit of room there. And min squad size may just mean that there's a bunch of academy players on minimum wage to bulk it out.
Puja
Academy players getting more Prem action? Brilliant news.
Anyone who has looked at the Prem in the last five years and thinks ‘Yep, that works. Nothing to change there.’ is delusional.
Interesting that nobody has countered the contention that that one or two years of rugby in a different country might be in the long term interests of player and country.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
It’s better than not playing/playing less, surely.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:29 pmIn a weakened league, leaving them less hardened and stymieing their development? Less brilliant.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:15 amWith the salary cap going up I’m sure we can tempt somebody.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:45 am
How would we get an All Black, considering we can't afford to compete for them now?
There are 30 teams across the T14 and Pro D2 - there's quite a bit of room there. And min squad size may just mean that there's a bunch of academy players on minimum wage to bulk it out.
Puja
Academy players getting more Prem action? Brilliant news.
Puja
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
Not really - players don't get better playing in a mediocre league of also-rans, has-beens, and bargain signings. Look at cricket and how little the County Championship used to do to prepare batsmen for Test cricket - we'd pick someone who'd been scoring well for their County only to see them get utterly destroyed by Test Match bowling. They had never faced that kind of quality before and discovered whole new flaws in their techniques that just didn't get tested by the average bowling in the county game.
If we're talking about getting academy players more playing time, we should pivot to another favourite unresolvable board argument - having a functional second tier.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
Our league is already veering towards mediocrity tbh.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:40 pmNot really - players don't get better playing in a mediocre league of also-rans, has-beens, and bargain signings. Look at cricket and how little the County Championship used to do to prepare batsmen for Test cricket - we'd pick someone who'd been scoring well for their County only to see them get utterly destroyed by Test Match bowling. They had never faced that kind of quality before and discovered whole new flaws in their techniques that just didn't get tested by the average bowling in the county game.
If we're talking about getting academy players more playing time, we should pivot to another favourite unresolvable board argument - having a functional second tier.
Puja
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
Not denying that in the slightest. I'm hoping a consolidation down to 10 clubs and avoiding international clashes will help with that and we can start turning the ship around, but I'm often accused of being an optimist.Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 5:29 pmOur league is already veering towards mediocrity tbh.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:40 pmNot really - players don't get better playing in a mediocre league of also-rans, has-beens, and bargain signings. Look at cricket and how little the County Championship used to do to prepare batsmen for Test cricket - we'd pick someone who'd been scoring well for their County only to see them get utterly destroyed by Test Match bowling. They had never faced that kind of quality before and discovered whole new flaws in their techniques that just didn't get tested by the average bowling in the county game.
If we're talking about getting academy players more playing time, we should pivot to another favourite unresolvable board argument - having a functional second tier.
Puja
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
RFU, PRL, money, DCMS, Championship. Its all a bit of a worry. We may be down to less than 10 clubs quite soon too.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 5:31 pmNot denying that in the slightest. I'm hoping a consolidation down to 10 clubs and avoiding international clashes will help with that and we can start turning the ship around, but I'm often accused of being an optimist.Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 5:29 pmOur league is already veering towards mediocrity tbh.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:40 pm
Not really - players don't get better playing in a mediocre league of also-rans, has-beens, and bargain signings. Look at cricket and how little the County Championship used to do to prepare batsmen for Test cricket - we'd pick someone who'd been scoring well for their County only to see them get utterly destroyed by Test Match bowling. They had never faced that kind of quality before and discovered whole new flaws in their techniques that just didn't get tested by the average bowling in the county game.
If we're talking about getting academy players more playing time, we should pivot to another favourite unresolvable board argument - having a functional second tier.
Puja
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
‘also-rans, has-beens, and bargain signings’Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:40 pmNot really - players don't get better playing in a mediocre league of also-rans, has-beens, and bargain signings. Look at cricket and how little the County Championship used to do to prepare batsmen for Test cricket - we'd pick someone who'd been scoring well for their County only to see them get utterly destroyed by Test Match bowling. They had never faced that kind of quality before and discovered whole new flaws in their techniques that just didn't get tested by the average bowling in the county game.
If we're talking about getting academy players more playing time, we should pivot to another favourite unresolvable board argument - having a functional second tier.
Puja
lol. I’ll leave it here.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:27 pmAgreed. That's the point, though. What is good for Saracens is bad for England! Itoje is far more important than Farrell to the international set-up. That's one example but is it a trend?FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:19 pmTom Willis has been in the match day squad for five rounds of the PRC and all seven rounds of the Prem. Two off the bench starting the other five games. A sound bit of rotation isn't a bad thing and he's playing plenty. In his final season at Wasps he played 1,304 mins (similar last season with Wasps/Bordeaux) and he's up to 767 already this season. Makes sense to bring in BillyV to take on some of the load.Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:48 am
I've got mixed feelings about all this, especially in terms of deciding what is best for English rugby. Saracens playing BV ahead of Willis, making Farrell marquee and (possibly) pushing Itoje out to France is arguably not for the good of English rugby. I'm starting to wonder if we are getting things wrong.
Farrell over Itoje is stupid long term but in the short term does make sense. There will be second rows on the market next summer. Not much in the way of flyhalfs on the market.
Add on the SA influence at Sale and possibly the Welsh core at Exeter. At a time when three clubs have gone, should the RFU be finding a way to support clubs more in developing a dominance of EQP?
According to this article from last year the RFU have been working on that.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
Rumours of RG Snyman to Bath next season.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
Pat Lam rumored to be looking at Lovejoy Chawatama to replace Sinckler (if he leaves).
Can't say I know enough him to comment if that's a decent replacement...
Can't say I know enough him to comment if that's a decent replacement...
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
TBH, that's an upgrade on the Sinckler that Bristol have had for most of his time there, and at a fraction of the price.Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:29 am
Great guy. Loves a scrum and tends to be rock solid there. Doesn't do a lot else around the park.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
We can stick the change in the Itoje bucket...Puja wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:40 amTBH, that's an upgrade on the Sinckler that Bristol have had for most of his time there, and at a fraction of the price.Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:29 am
Great guy. Loves a scrum and tends to be rock solid there. Doesn't do a lot else around the park.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
His parents were big Ian McShane fans apparently.
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Re: Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24
Is he at Quins or did I imagine that? I don’t feel like I’ve seen him at all. Shows how much attention I pay to front rows I guess.