Team for the Summer

[Graigwen]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... t-29396843

At the outset things didn't look quite so bad, but now . . . my guess is:

Wales 16 - 45 South Africa

I fear it could be worse than that. I think we will be in big trouble at the scrums.

After the massacre I will claim it was good experience for the youngsters and yielded valuable insights into some players potential.........????
.

[normanski]

Well, at least we’re on the board.

[normanski]

Wow! What a turnaround. Our scrum is holding up better since the first couple gave away penalties. Even with seven men we got the ball away.

[Graigwen]

41-13

Could have been a lot worse.

[Graigwen]

Some players lack experience, others seem to lack ability or strength. Not all of today's team will have long glittering international careers.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Not far off my guess in the end although the scoreline flatters SA, if only a bit. One of their tries was off a forward pass and Dyer's yellow was harsh.

I thought we'd be murdered when we went down to 13 but somehow we survived. Sanjay created two great chances for tries but neither Winnett nor Bevan could hold on to the ball. Costelow blew hot and cold as usual. Beetham wasn't a disaster for the 10 minutes he got, so that gamble didn't blow up in our faces. Botham isn't a 7. Lake was excellent.

[normanski]

The Irish ref did us no favours again. How could he and the TMO not miss that hugely forward pass and Mbonmbi should have been red carded (again) for a no arms tackle followed by a head on head clash. I thought head on head recklessly was a straight red. Once again the Bookes get away with murder from referees.

[Sandydragon]

We have some important players returning in the forwards, but somehow we need to find, develop or steal some props.

Our scrum woes make the absence of Nicky Smith all the more baffling.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Player stats:

WALES Tackles, Missed Tackles, Passes, Runs, Metres Run
C WinnettFB 2 2 5 4 8
L WilliamsW 3 1 4 3 20
O WatkinC 6 2 2 4 0
M GradyC 7 3 2 8 19
R DyerW 3 1 1 3 7
S CostelowFH 6 4 6 2 16
E BevanSH 3 0 28 0 0
G ThomasP 12 2 1 4 4
D LakeH 9 0 2 11 33
K AssirattiP 3 0 1 0 0
M ScreechL 4 1 4 2 2
B CarterL 16 0 3 2 3
T PlumtreeFL 13 0 0 2 8
J BothamFL 10 0 4 3 1
A WainwrightN8 7 1 1 11 38
E LloydR 2 1 0 2 9
K MathiasR 0 0 1 3 1
H O'ConnorR 5 2 0 1 0
J RattiR 1 0 1 0 0
M MartinR 1 1 1 1 0
G DaviesR 0 0 27 1 0
E JamesR 2 0 0 4 5
J BeethamR 0 0 4 0 0

Carter was the best tackler 16, none missed. Costelow and Grady missed the most tackles - 4 and 3. We didn't make enough ground - Lake and Wainwright carried well but that's it for the forwards.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstat ... gue=289234

[Sandydragon]

Player stats:

WALES Tackles, Missed Tackles, Passes, Runs, Metres Run
C WinnettFB 2 2 5 4 8
L WilliamsW 3 1 4 3 20
O WatkinC 6 2 2 4 0
M GradyC 7 3 2 8 19
R DyerW 3 1 1 3 7
S CostelowFH 6 4 6 2 16
E BevanSH 3 0 28 0 0
G ThomasP 12 2 1 4 4
D LakeH 9 0 2 11 33
K AssirattiP 3 0 1 0 0
M ScreechL 4 1 4 2 2
B CarterL 16 0 3 2 3
T PlumtreeFL 13 0 0 2 8
J BothamFL 10 0 4 3 1
A WainwrightN8 7 1 1 11 38
E LloydR 2 1 0 2 9
K MathiasR 0 0 1 3 1
H O'ConnorR 5 2 0 1 0
J RattiR 1 0 1 0 0
M MartinR 1 1 1 1 0
G DaviesR 0 0 27 1 0
E JamesR 2 0 0 4 5
J BeethamR 0 0 4 0 0

Carter was the best tackler 16, none missed. Costelow and Grady missed the most tackles - 4 and 3. We didn't make enough ground - Lake and Wainwright carried well but that's it for the forwards.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstat ... gue=289234

Grady has a lot to learn. The question I suppose is do we stick with him and give him
Space to make the most of his positive attributes or do we accept that he’s a bench player for the time being at best?

Costelow is a player I really want o do well but he doesn’t look like an international
Player at the moment. Ideally I’d want him and Lloyd playing as much as possible not both at the same club.

[Sandydragon]

I see Derwyn Jones has weighed in on the Sam Parry affair. I’m not sure who is right and wrong in this one, but I am wondering if Warren might struggle to hold onto his job if results don’t go his way in Australia and in the AIs.

There are a vocal number of fans who don’t want Gatland anymore. If there’s a perception of player discontent as well then Gatland might not make the next RWC.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I see Derwyn Jones has weighed in on the Sam Parry affair. I’m not sure who is right and wrong in this one, but I am wondering if Warren might struggle to hold onto his job if results don’t go his way in Australia and in the AIs.

There are a vocal number of fans who don’t want Gatland anymore. If there’s a perception of player discontent as well then Gatland might not make the next RWC.

Agreed. If the results are going your way you can get away with treating players badly because the WRU and most of the fans will like what you're doing. If the results are bad (and they couldn't be much worse), it might be a different story.

Having said that the WRU will probably cling to the idea of Gatland the great redeemer for a while yet (and, having not taken him up on his resignation offer, it would probably cost them another fortune to get rid of him).

[Son of Mathonwy]

Squad for Australia:

Forwards: Corey Domachowski, Kemsley Mathias, Gareth Thomas, Efan Daniel, Dewi Lake, Evan Lloyd, Archie Griffin, Dillon Lewis, Harri O’Connor, Ben Carter, Cory Hill, Dafydd Jenkins, Matthew Screech, Christ Tshiunza, James Botham, Mackenzie Martin, Taine Plumtree, Tommy Reffell, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Ellis Bevan, Gareth Davies, Kieran Hardy, Sam Costelow, Mason Grady, Eddie James, Ben Thomas, Nick Tompkins, Owen Watkin, Rio Dyer, Regan Grace, Josh Hathaway, Liam Williams, Jacob Beetham, Cameron Winnett

I would have left out Hill and kept Ratti.

[Which Tyler]

Archie Griffin, Regan Grace

Are both of Bath's players going to come back with more minutes of international rugby than club?

[Sandydragon]

I see Derwyn Jones has weighed in on the Sam Parry affair. I’m not sure who is right and wrong in this one, but I am wondering if Warren might struggle to hold onto his job if results don’t go his way in Australia and in the AIs.

There are a vocal number of fans who don’t want Gatland anymore. If there’s a perception of player discontent as well then Gatland might not make the next RWC.

Agreed. If the results are going your way you can get away with treating players badly because the WRU and most of the fans will like what you're doing. If the results are bad (and they couldn't be much worse), it might be a different story.

Having said that the WRU will probably cling to the idea of Gatland the great redeemer for a while yet (and, having not taken him up on his resignation offer, it would probably cost them another fortune to get rid of him).

I think it will take another dire 6N for him to be in real jeopardy. We all expected the bokke to hammer us and in some ways the result and performance was better than expected.

[newgalesurf]

I see Derwyn Jones has weighed in on the Sam Parry affair. I’m not sure who is right and wrong in this one, but I am wondering if Warren might struggle to hold onto his job if results don’t go his way in Australia and in the AIs.

There are a vocal number of fans who don’t want Gatland anymore. If there’s a perception of player discontent as well then Gatland might not make the next RWC.

This is a strange one. Gatland seemed to be up front in that he was cover for the other hookers. And as it was, he would have gone to Aus with Dee being injured.

Agents need to get out the way, and players not get their feelings hurt so easily.

[Graigwen]

Not far off my guess in the end although the scoreline flatters SA, if only a bit. One of their tries was off a forward pass and Dyer's yellow was harsh.

I thought we'd be murdered when we went down to 13 but somehow we survived. Sanjay created two great chances for tries but neither Winnett nor Bevan could hold on to the ball. Costelow blew hot and cold as usual. Beetham wasn't a disaster for the 10 minutes he got, so that gamble didn't blow up in our faces. Botham isn't a 7. Lake was excellent.

Getting back from a few days geology in the Eastern Valley, it saves me work by being able to agree with every point you make.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Not far off my guess in the end although the scoreline flatters SA, if only a bit. One of their tries was off a forward pass and Dyer's yellow was harsh.

I thought we'd be murdered when we went down to 13 but somehow we survived. Sanjay created two great chances for tries but neither Winnett nor Bevan could hold on to the ball. Costelow blew hot and cold as usual. Beetham wasn't a disaster for the 10 minutes he got, so that gamble didn't blow up in our faces. Botham isn't a 7. Lake was excellent.

Getting back from a few days geology in the Eastern Valley, it saves me work by being able to agree with every point you make.

And it seems that even the Boks thought they got lucky with cards.

I have to say that in the last 12 months World Rugby has become more lenient (too lenient) on head collisions. If there's any excuse they'll reduce the sanction as far as possible (including down to nothing). It seems like you can go in as hard as you like, head on head, as long as you're bent at the hips and are vaguely attempting a wrap. It seems irresponsible (and legally unwise) given the long-term damage being caused.

[Numbers]

Not far off my guess in the end although the scoreline flatters SA, if only a bit. One of their tries was off a forward pass and Dyer's yellow was harsh.

I thought we'd be murdered when we went down to 13 but somehow we survived. Sanjay created two great chances for tries but neither Winnett nor Bevan could hold on to the ball. Costelow blew hot and cold as usual. Beetham wasn't a disaster for the 10 minutes he got, so that gamble didn't blow up in our faces. Botham isn't a 7. Lake was excellent.

Getting back from a few days geology in the Eastern Valley, it saves me work by being able to agree with every point you make.

And it seems that even the Boks thought they got lucky with cards.

I have to say that in the last 12 months World Rugby has become more lenient (too lenient) on head collisions. If there's any excuse they'll reduce the sanction as far as possible (including down to nothing). It seems like you can go in as hard as you like, head on head, as long as you're bent at the hips and are vaguely attempting a wrap. It seems irresponsible (and legally unwise) given the long-term damage being caused.

Yep, that and players who have received the blow to the head not going off to be assessed, it's not helped by some of the former players going on about rugby collisions, to my mind the player has a duty of care that shuold be adhered to.

[Sandydragon]

Agreed. Player have to tackle lower or the game will change beyond recognition. It seems like the crack down lasted for one season until a number of teams moaned about the number of red cards and now anything goes again.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Genius from Gatland. Our fly halves aren't big enough so he picks the smallest of all, 5ft 8 Costelow. He leaves out the 6ft Lloyd but considers Ben Thomas (also 6ft) to be of the right stature. Even Beetham, who I think is worth looking at, is only 6ft 1.

Shame he showed no interest in the 6ft 3 Rhys Patchell.

What's the thinking behind only picking one recognised 10?

"The thinking behind that is looking at some other options and depth at 10. We are probably looking at a player who can potentially play differently in that position.

"There's some good young tens in Wales at the moment but they are not big. They are quite small so we are looking for a different type of 10 with potentially a different type of stature."

Who is that?

"Potentially someone like Ben Thomas or Jacob Beetham."

So, Jacob Beetham will be considered as a 10?

"Potentially yeah. Potentially.

"He can play 15 and he can play midfield as well. He's played 10 at under age.

"We know Ben's played there and has had a couple of games for Cardiff and went there on the weekend. We were really pleased with his performance."

I would assume that Patchell is available for this tour, since he's out of contract. Zero chance of Gatland getting an experienced, physically imposing fly half involved though. What would be the use of that?

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-29444748

[Numbers]

Not sure how we going to line up against Aus, I would like to see this:

Gareth Thomas
Dewi Lake
Dillon Lewis
Daffydd Jenkins
Ben Carter
Taine Basham
Tommy Reffell
Aaron Wainwright
Gareth Davies
Sam Costelow
Rio Dyer
Mason Grady
Owen Watkin
Liam Williams
Cameron Winnett

Reps:

Evan Lloyd, Corey Domachowski, Archie Griffin, Christ Tshiunza, Mackenzie Martin, Ellis Bevan, Ben Thomas, Jacob Beetham

[Sandydragon]

Not sure how we going to line up against Aus, I would like to see this:

Gareth Thomas
Dewi Lake
Dillon Lewis
Daffydd Jenkins
Ben Carter
Taine Basham
Tommy Reffell
Aaron Wainwright
Gareth Davies
Sam Costelow
Rio Dyer
Mason Grady
Owen Watkin
Liam Williams
Cameron Winnett

Reps:

Evan Lloyd, Corey Domachowski, Archie Griffin, Christ Tshiunza, Mackenzie Martin, Ellis Bevan, Ben Thomas, Jacob Beetham

I suspect that's pretty close to the first selection. But I also suspect Plumtree will get the nod over Basham.

[Numbers]

Not sure how we going to line up against Aus, I would like to see this:

Gareth Thomas
Dewi Lake
Dillon Lewis
Daffydd Jenkins
Ben Carter
Taine Basham
Tommy Reffell
Aaron Wainwright
Gareth Davies
Sam Costelow
Rio Dyer
Mason Grady
Owen Watkin
Liam Williams
Cameron Winnett

Reps:

Evan Lloyd, Corey Domachowski, Archie Griffin, Christ Tshiunza, Mackenzie Martin, Ellis Bevan, Ben Thomas, Jacob Beetham

I suspect that's pretty close to the first selection. But I also suspect Plumtree will get the nod over Basham.

Sorry, I meant to put Plumtree not Basham who's not even in the squad, oops, bloody Taine's.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I would have Hathaway or Grace on the bench. Gotta get capping them.