2024 Summer Internationals

[switchskier]

So depressing that we're playing Canada today. Watching Australia - Wales and think we could easily handle either team but we're now minnows. Can't think when we'll ever get a proper summer tour again.

[Mikey Brown]

Losing to Canada you mean…

[Mikey Brown]

So depressing that we're playing Canada today. Watching Australia - Wales and think we could easily handle either team but we're now minnows. Can't think when we'll ever get a proper summer tour again.

We seem to have got a grip now. I have no idea how these tours are arranged and what say coaches have in ‘development’ tours vs full test against the big boys, but what makes you say we won’t get a proper tour again?

I feel like this may be a good thing long term, not that I’d want to see tours against this level of opposition frequently. I’d like more of the top sides to take a game or two against these sides each summer.

[sharvey44]

Canada weren’t much competition in the end. But a good way to cap some new players. Need to right the wrong against the USA next week.

Paterson had a great game. Warr, Reed, Thompson, and Richardson put in good performances too. Dobie, Bayliss, Williamson and McDowell also deserve a mention. Not convinced by Young, doesn’t seem dynamic enough. More experienced players didn’t get out of 2nd gear really.

First tour after a WC seems like a good time to play some tier 2/3 teams, have a look at some new players, find some depth in key positions and then over the next 2/3 years play more tier 1 nations.

Comparing the Glasgow players on the team to the Edinburgh players and they just seemed fitter and more switched on. There’s clearly an issue there.

[Donny osmond]

So depressing that we're playing Canada today. Watching Australia - Wales and think we could easily handle either team but we're now minnows. Can't think when we'll ever get a proper summer tour again.

I understand the thinking, that we should be testing ourselves against the best, but to me it's upside down thinking.

There's a lot to be said for development games against the teams were facing on this tour; we've blooded young guys in a test environment; they've started their personal development from club/youth players to intl level; GT has been able to develop and evolve his team and tactics without the pressures of result over performance; winning is a habit, even against lower ranked teams it still counts in the group and individual psychology.

Just look at how the women's team used their run on victories in last years intl league to develop and get closer to the big teams in terms of both individual and team performance. Getting humped by NZ/SA might be useful in some respects but you pay a big coin for those marginal benefits. Building a winning team, even if it's against lower ranked opposition, brings real tangible benefits

[switchskier]

So depressing that we're playing Canada today. Watching Australia - Wales and think we could easily handle either team but we're now minnows. Can't think when we'll ever get a proper summer tour again.

I understand the thinking, that we should be testing ourselves against the best, but to me it's upside down thinking.

There's a lot to be said for development games against the teams were facing on this tour; we've blooded young guys in a test environment; they've started their personal development from club/youth players to intl level; GT has been able to develop and evolve his team and tactics without the pressures of result over performance; winning is a habit, even against lower ranked teams it still counts in the group and individual psychology.

Just look at how the women's team used their run on victories in last years intl league to develop and get closer to the big teams in terms of both individual and team performance. Getting humped by NZ/SA might be useful in some respects but you pay a big coin for those marginal benefits. Building a winning team, even if it's against lower ranked opposition, brings real tangible benefits

While I get that I don't think that Canada are good enough to have learnt anything. That was a lower standard than all of these players face week in, week out. A old fashioned A's versus B's training match would have been more valuable (and brought in more revenue).

We are the only, theoretically, Tier 1 team that tours the Americas. The other teams think that it's beneath them. We're the only ones risking losing ranking points with no prospect of gaining them.

I'm not saying that we deserve to tour SA: Ireland have earned that right. But we could have blooded almost as many players against a new Australia team. Instead Wales, who we have beat handily a few times now get that tour because they believe that they deserve it. Instead we rank ourselves alongside (a finally improving) Italy who are becoming only the second team to go to the PIs this summer.

[Big D]

Canada are pish.

Thought a few showed up well but the opposition were piss weak.

[Donny osmond]

So depressing that we're playing Canada today. Watching Australia - Wales and think we could easily handle either team but we're now minnows. Can't think when we'll ever get a proper summer tour again.

I understand the thinking, that we should be testing ourselves against the best, but to me it's upside down thinking.

There's a lot to be said for development games against the teams were facing on this tour; we've blooded young guys in a test environment; they've started their personal development from club/youth players to intl level; GT has been able to develop and evolve his team and tactics without the pressures of result over performance; winning is a habit, even against lower ranked teams it still counts in the group and individual psychology.

Just look at how the women's team used their run on victories in last years intl league to develop and get closer to the big teams in terms of both individual and team performance. Getting humped by NZ/SA might be useful in some respects but you pay a big coin for those marginal benefits. Building a winning team, even if it's against lower ranked opposition, brings real tangible benefits

While I get that I don't think that Canada are good enough to have learnt anything. That was a lower standard than all of these players face week in, week out. A old fashioned A's versus B's training match would have been more valuable (and brought in more revenue).

We are the only, theoretically, Tier 1 team that tours the Americas. The other teams think that it's beneath them. We're the only ones risking losing ranking points with no prospect of gaining them.

I'm not saying that we deserve to tour SA: Ireland have earned that right. But we could have blooded almost as many players against a new Australia team. Instead Wales, who we have beat handily a few times now get that tour because they believe that they deserve it. Instead we rank ourselves alongside (a finally improving) Italy who are becoming only the second team to go to the PIs this summer.

What makes you think we're only on this tour because we don't deserve better or don't believe in ourselves?

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah. I feel like this tour putting us on the level of these opponents is really oversimplifying it. I imagine a lot of the off-field stuff is just as important with this tour.

We have some really good players and some great elements to our game, but also some things fundamentally missing if we want to consistently compete with better sides. Identifying even a couple of players that can fill the void of Hogg, Russell etc. would be worth it, while letting a lot of the senior guys have a break after a World Cup.

With world rankings and World Cup cycles being endlessly important (sometimes annoyingly so) a tour like this is a good opportunity to look at a whole bunch of newer faces and see how they operate in the international setup. Are Scotland A games even still a thing?

[switchskier]

I understand the thinking, that we should be testing ourselves against the best, but to me it's upside down thinking.

There's a lot to be said for development games against the teams were facing on this tour; we've blooded young guys in a test environment; they've started their personal development from club/youth players to intl level; GT has been able to develop and evolve his team and tactics without the pressures of result over performance; winning is a habit, even against lower ranked teams it still counts in the group and individual psychology.

Just look at how the women's team used their run on victories in last years intl league to develop and get closer to the big teams in terms of both individual and team performance. Getting humped by NZ/SA might be useful in some respects but you pay a big coin for those marginal benefits. Building a winning team, even if it's against lower ranked opposition, brings real tangible benefits

While I get that I don't think that Canada are good enough to have learnt anything. That was a lower standard than all of these players face week in, week out. A old fashioned A's versus B's training match would have been more valuable (and brought in more revenue).

We are the only, theoretically, Tier 1 team that tours the Americas. The other teams think that it's beneath them. We're the only ones risking losing ranking points with no prospect of gaining them.

I'm not saying that we deserve to tour SA: Ireland have earned that right. But we could have blooded almost as many players against a new Australia team. Instead Wales, who we have beat handily a few times now get that tour because they believe that they deserve it. Instead we rank ourselves alongside (a finally improving) Italy who are becoming only the second team to go to the PIs this summer.

What makes you think we're only on this tour because we don't deserve better or don't believe in ourselves?

It's presumably about the finances and we're not a draw in the same ways that our 6N competitors are but our last few summer tours were:

2023 - Italy, France (x2), Georgia (pre RWC)
2022 - Argentina (x2), Chile
2021 - Romania (cancelled), Georgia, England (A game)
2020 - Canada, USA, Uraguay, Chile
2019 - France (x2), Georgia (x2)
2018 - Canada, USA, Argentina
2017 - Italy, Australia, Fiji
2016 - Japan (x2)
2015 - Ireland, Italy, France (pre RWC)
2014 - Argentina, Canada, South Africa, USA

Don't think we'll ever get to tour NZ or SA again but it's always a bit sad to be reminded that we're second tier.

[Donny osmond]

When you see it laid out like that it's hard not to see a pattern right enough.

I still maintain it's not necessarily a bad tour to be on, but i can totally see where you're coming from

[Mikey Brown]

When you see it laid out like that it's hard not to see a pattern right enough.

I still maintain it's not necessarily a bad tour to be on, but i can totally see where you're coming from

Yep. +1

Am I going mad or did Simon Webster become the first player to score against all of NZ, SA, Aus in a season? That feels like a stupid fact I’ve retained. Must have been around 2005-2010 that we played them all.

Though thinking about it that would more likely be the Autumn internationals at Murrayfield, if it’s even half way accurate.

[Mikey Brown]

Very interesting side for USA. Rowe, Hastings, Ashman, Walker, Craig getting a run in what is pretty much a first XV otherwise.

Scotland team to face USA at Audi Field, Washington D.C., in the Skyscanner Americas tour on Friday 12 July, kick-off 11:30pm (BST)– live on TNT Sports 1 (caps in brackets):

15. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (4)
14. Kyle Steyn – Vice-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (20)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (48)
12. Sione Tuipulotu – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (25)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (39)

10. Adam Hastings – Glasgow Warriors (27)
9. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (30)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (31)
2. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (17)
3. Murphy Walker – Glasgow Warriors (3)
4. Alex Craig ­– Scarlets (2)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (38)
6. Jamie Ritchie – Vice-Captain – Edinburgh Rugby (49)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (19)
8. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (45)

Replacements

16. Robbie Smith – Northampton Saints (1)
17. Rory Sutherland – Glasgow Warriors (31)
18. Elliot Millar Mills – Northampton Saints (4)
19. Max Williamson – Glasgow Warriors (1)
20. Luke Crosbie – Edinburgh Rugby (9)
21. Jamie Dobie – Glasgow Warriors (3)
22. Ross Thompson – Edinburgh Rugby (4)
23. Matt Currie – Edinburgh Rugby (1)

You definitely get the sense they need to right the wrongs of the last time out. Fagerson in particular I remember had a horrible game. It might have been his first cap actually

[BaldiePete]

IIRC it was Fagerson’s first cap and when he dropped a catch he was berated for it by Hogg. Cuntish behaviour by Hogg.

[Mikey Brown]

Oof. Didn’t remember that part. I think that was Hogg’s first game as captain too.

It will be interesting seeing what position Scotland need to be in to use the bench. It’s a very experienced starting team but that bench is a bit of a funny one.

I’d love to see Dobie and Currie get some proper time.

[Big D]

Co-captains and co-vice captains is taking it too far. It just isn't necessary.

Should be a walloping.

[Big D]

While I get that I don't think that Canada are good enough to have learnt anything. That was a lower standard than all of these players face week in, week out. A old fashioned A's versus B's training match would have been more valuable (and brought in more revenue).

We are the only, theoretically, Tier 1 team that tours the Americas. The other teams think that it's beneath them. We're the only ones risking losing ranking points with no prospect of gaining them.

I'm not saying that we deserve to tour SA: Ireland have earned that right. But we could have blooded almost as many players against a new Australia team. Instead Wales, who we have beat handily a few times now get that tour because they believe that they deserve it. Instead we rank ourselves alongside (a finally improving) Italy who are becoming only the second team to go to the PIs this summer.

What makes you think we're only on this tour because we don't deserve better or don't believe in ourselves?

It's presumably about the finances and we're not a draw in the same ways that our 6N competitors are but our last few summer tours were:

2023 - Italy, France (x2), Georgia (pre RWC)
2022 - Argentina (x2), Chile
2021 - Romania (cancelled), Georgia, England (A game)
2020 - Canada, USA, Uraguay, Chile
2019 - France (x2), Georgia (x2)
2018 - Canada, USA, Argentina
2017 - Italy, Australia, Fiji
2016 - Japan (x2)
2015 - Ireland, Italy, France (pre RWC)
2014 - Argentina, Canada, South Africa, USA

Don't think we'll ever get to tour NZ or SA again but it's always a bit sad to be reminded that we're second tier.

The SRU for a while chose not to seek SANZAR tours.

Should be noted you are missing the cancelled tour in 2020 to SA (two tests) and NZ (one test). Since COVID we have had two summers really where we could tour, 2022 and 2024. Entirely reasonable to have a tour this year that allows us to both rest some and test some players given the RWC year and likely Lions ahead for some.

[Puja]

Very interesting side for USA. Rowe, Hastings, Ashman, Walker, Craig getting a run in what is pretty much a first XV otherwise.

Bit cruel on the Yanks, although I suppose they've earned this by beating you last time. I don't expect that you'll notice the speed bump as you drive over them with that XV.

Puja

[sharvey44]

Game looks to be being broadcast via someone’s iPhone.

[switchskier]

Game looks to be being broadcast via someone’s iPhone.

Production values from the early 90s.

Pretty stodgy game. US tougher in defence than Canada but not offering anything in attack. Tough to take anything from it really.

[Mikey Brown]

Really thought this was on tomorrow. Doesn't sound like I missed a classic.

[sharvey44]

Comfortable win. Weather made playing difficult for both teams. Righted the wrong of 6 years ago. VdM levels Hogg’s try tally. Not much else to take from that one. Some international minutes in the bank for some of the newbies.

[Mikey Brown]

Now that we've all come down from the elation of that win, does anybody still have any interest in these games v Chile and Uruguay? I would guess most of the first team guys from the USA game will be split across two A sides, rather than the complete change we saw between Canada/USA. We do have to battle on without Glen Young though, so maybe we shouldn't be taking this too lightly.

I was interested to see Rowe, Hastings, Ashman, Walker, Craig get a run vs USA but I have no idea how much can really be learned from the results. I think the most we can hope for is it helps some new guys bed in to the squad and get settled to fight for a place in the Autumn squad. That's Fiji, SA, Portugal, Aus by the way.

I guess we'll see a start for Healy and Fagerson/Steyn actually given a rest. Exciting stuff.

[septic 9]

Now that we've all come down from the elation of that win, does anybody still have any interest in these games v Chile and Uruguay? I would guess most of the first team guys from the USA game will be split across two A sides, rather than the complete change we saw between Canada/USA. We do have to battle on without Glen Young though, so maybe we shouldn't be taking this too lightly.

I was interested to see Rowe, Hastings, Ashman, Walker, Craig get a run vs USA but I have no idea how much can really be learned from the results. I think the most we can hope for is it helps some new guys bed in to the squad and get settled to fight for a place in the Autumn squad. That's Fiji, SA, Portugal, Aus by the way.

I guess we'll see a start for Healy and Fagerson/Steyn actually given a rest. Exciting stuff.

worth remembering how Chile and Uruguay played at the RWC - both getting there at the expense of the USA. They are much better. IIRC Uruguay has a scrum, Chile great wings

McCann, Smith, Miller-Mills and Thompson join Young on the plane home - TBH Young will be the one least missed. Afshar, Carmichael and Richardson join the squad (as planned) but won't play barring injuries

[sharvey44]

Scotland team to face Chile at Estadio Nacional, Santiago, in the Skyscanner Americas tour on Saturday 20 July, kick-off 8pm (BST)– live on TNT Sports 1 and BBC Scotland (caps in brackets):

15. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (5)
14. Jamie Dobie – Glasgow Warriors (4)
13. Kyle Steyn – Vice-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (21)
12. Sione Tuipulotu – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (26)
11. Arron Reed – Sale Sharks (1)

10. Ben Healy – Edinburgh Rugby (6)
9. Gus Warr – Sale Sharks (1)

1. Nathan McBeth – Glasgow Warriors (1)
2. Dylan Richardson – Sharks (2)
3. Will Hurd – Leicester Tigers (1)
4. Alex Craig – Scarlets (3)
5. Ewan Johnson – Oyonnax (1)
6. Gregor Brown – Glasgow Warriors (1)
7. Jamie Ritchie – Co-Captain – Edinburgh Rugby (50)
8. Josh Bayliss – Bath Rugby (6)

Replacements

16. Patrick Harrison – Edinburgh Rugby (uncapped)
17. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (32)
18. Javan Sebastian – Edinburgh Rugby (8)
19. Max Williamson – Glasgow Warriors (2)
20. Rory Darge – Glasgow Warriors (20)
21. Adam Hastings – Glasgow Warriors (28)
22. Stafford McDowall – Glasgow Warriors (3)
23. Matt Currie – Edinburgh Rugby (2)