England vs New Zealand - Saturday

[twitchy]

I'm disappointed, but looking back at the game didn't it pan out pretty much exactly as we all predicted? We were weak in the scrum and on the subs bench. We are an ok team but nothing more than that. We have some decent moments but also have glaring weaknesses. NZ deserved the win.

[Oakboy]

SB has questions to answer. His suspect bench lost us that match.

SA will murder that 23 should he pick it again.

Wasn't the players' fault, imo.

Disagree. That bench added zilch.

[Mellsblue]

There was no attack. The Wiggler is making a mockery of the Peter Principle, imo. The defence was all over the place, and we were only 4/5 offloads millimetres away from sticking from getting a humping, but you expect that given the coaching change. The forwards gained parity so we could keep it close but bar a couple of pieces of inspiration from Smith and IFW being a freak we didn’t produce enough to say we deserved to win. Lawrence, Slade, Freeman and Furbank were all mostly anonymous in attack but I don’t think that’s the fault of the players.

[Mellsblue]

SB has questions to answer. His suspect bench lost us that match.

SA will murder that 23 should he pick it again.

Wasn't the players' fault, imo.

Disagree. That bench added zilch.

Baxter, Dan and B Cuzza all added quite a lot. Difficult to do too much when the tactic for the last 20 seems to be to shove your head up your arse.

[Mr Mwenda]

Bollocks, what a shame. I feel for Ford.

I echo many other feelings, somewhere in the last 20 England went off the boil. I don't get what they were trying to do - I guess they were banking on keeping it tight but a pretty bad version of doing that.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Marcus Smith must be pissed!

[twitchy]

lol

[Stom]

lol

Sums it up really...

For me, we just fail to push the intensity in the important moments.

We came away from the first 30 minutes down on the scoreboard despite being the more aggressive and better team. And then the last 30 was just awful.

Until the coaching team make some changes to the way they try to "close out" games, we're going to continue to suffer.

[Mellsblue]

Isn’t three points after 90mins a win?

[fivepointer]

Isnt this a bit of trend? I might be completely wrong but havent we had an issue with low scoring in second halfs throughout SB's time in charge?

[Stom]

Isnt this a bit of trend? I might be completely wrong but havent we had an issue with low scoring in second halfs throughout SB's time in charge?

Yes.

[Mellsblue]

In his defence, we had an issue with low scoring in both halves for the first year of his reign so, there is some improvement.

[Spiffy]

lol

Sums it up really...

For me, we just fail to push the intensity in the important moments.

We came away from the first 30 minutes down on the scoreboard despite being the more aggressive and better team. And then the last 30 was just awful.

Until the coaching team make some changes to the way they try to "close out" games, we're going to continue to suffer.

Even the term "close out" has a negativity to it. It suggests putting up the barricades, playing defensively, too much kicking and calling a halt to attacking moves and mindset. England would probably have won if Marcus Smith had not been subbed by Ford.

[Epaminondas Pules]

lol

Sums it up really...

For me, we just fail to push the intensity in the important moments.

We came away from the first 30 minutes down on the scoreboard despite being the more aggressive and better team. And then the last 30 was just awful.

Until the coaching team make some changes to the way they try to "close out" games, we're going to continue to suffer.

Even the term "close out" has a negativity to it. It suggests putting up the barricades, playing defensively, too much kicking and calling a halt to attacking moves and mindset. England would probably have won if Marcus Smith had not been subbed by Ford.

I dunno. Only because the whole game plan changed which to me smells of coaches intervention. I mean Ford was cack largely, but the whole plan shifted into not playing.

[FKAS]

Wasn't the players' fault, imo.

Disagree. That bench added zilch.

Baxter, Dan and B Cuzza all added quite a lot. Difficult to do too much when the tactic for the last 20 seems to be to shove your head up your arse.

Baxter got mullered at scrum time.

The bench was poor in total really. Ben Curry was adequate, Dan was the best of the bunch. As we worried about pre game the lack of carrying threat meant we couldn't go on the offensive.

[Which Tyler]

Not that we tried to go o the offensive once the bench was coming on.

I'm with EP. Coaching instructions had to be to sit back and avoid playing rugby for the last 30 minutes - that's on then, not the players tasked with carrying out those instructions

[Oakboy]

Selection is a funny business. Reportedly, had he been fit, Chessum would have started at 6 yet CCS was our best back-rower.

Football has dumped a manager who failed to try to win from tight situations later in games.. Now, rugby has a HC making the same mistake.

[Mellsblue]

Disagree. That bench added zilch.

Baxter, Dan and B Cuzza all added quite a lot. Difficult to do too much when the tactic for the last 20 seems to be to shove your head up your arse.

Baxter got mullered at scrum time.

The bench was poor in total really. Ben Curry was adequate, Dan was the best of the bunch. As we worried about pre game the lack of carrying threat meant we couldn't go on the offensive.

A couple of times but, as always, it’s not always on the prop and I didn’t agree with some of Jonker’s interpretation. Plus, props do more than just scrum unless you’re Dan Cole and you can’t be allowed to retire in peace because we don’t have any other options. Ultimately, and in response to Stom and Dors’s disagreement, the issue lies with IBWT as it’s an ongoing trend of shoite so it’s difficult, even wrong, to pin it on the players.

[FKAS]

Baxter, Dan and B Cuzza all added quite a lot. Difficult to do too much when the tactic for the last 20 seems to be to shove your head up your arse.

Baxter got mullered at scrum time.

The bench was poor in total really. Ben Curry was adequate, Dan was the best of the bunch. As we worried about pre game the lack of carrying threat meant we couldn't go on the offensive.

A couple of times but, as always, it’s not always on the prop and I didn’t agree with some of Jonker’s interpretation. Plus, props do more than just scrum unless you’re Dan Cole and you can’t be allowed to retire in peace because we don’t have any other options. Ultimately, and in response to Stom and Dors’s disagreement, the issue lies with IBWT as it’s an ongoing trend of shoite so it’s difficult, even wrong, to pin it on the players.

His side was facing the camera and he went back and then in. Couldn't see but I'm guessing Cole on the other side also went back.

I was worried about the bench from when the selection was announced and it played out as I feared. Safe, solid options up front that didn't add impetus, a scrum half out of his depth and a flyhalf that wasn't fit.

[Banquo]

Bench made a huge difference in the wrong direction. And we stopped playing! Bring Randall on and totally negate his game with the tactics! Terrible game management from the coaches. We just shat ourselves. But to be fair they were far superior largely, certainly ball in hand.

As was predictable.

[Banquo]

I don’t think we were better at all. We were energetic and hassled then well but they looked massively more dangerous than us. Our lineout was wobbly. Scrum ok. Attack sketchy. Take the intercept away and we’ve likely lost by 10+

Agreed.

[Mellsblue]

Baxter got mullered at scrum time.

The bench was poor in total really. Ben Curry was adequate, Dan was the best of the bunch. As we worried about pre game the lack of carrying threat meant we couldn't go on the offensive.

A couple of times but, as always, it’s not always on the prop and I didn’t agree with some of Jonker’s interpretation. Plus, props do more than just scrum unless you’re Dan Cole and you can’t be allowed to retire in peace because we don’t have any other options. Ultimately, and in response to Stom and Dors’s disagreement, the issue lies with IBWT as it’s an ongoing trend of shoite so it’s difficult, even wrong, to pin it on the players.

His side was facing the camera and he went back and then in. Couldn't see but I'm guessing Cole on the other side also went back.

I was worried about the bench from when the selection was announced and it played out as I feared. Safe, solid options up front that didn't add impetus, a scrum half out of his depth and a flyhalf that wasn't fit.

Oh, yeah he got beaten on that one but it happens.

[Danno]

Pedant would point out that New Zealand were cheating like bastards at that last scrum - the 18 was boring so hard that he was like me on the Politics board - or that Angus Gardener was looking to obviate any controversy over 20 minute red cards by declaring any and all head contact legal, but we managed to not be quite good enough all match and realistically deserved what we got.

Am just very depressed and flattened after that. Third match in a row where it was in our hands and we managed to throw it away.

Puja

It's not good. And it's the fourth match if you include France in the 6n. There's a solid mix of youth and experience and much like the last 15 years they are just not getting over the line.

[FKAS]

I've seen England's attempt at a bomb squad bench being described as a damp firework elsewhere. Fitting.

[Danno]

lol

Embarrassing.

I'm not usually one for wheeling out the guillotine, but if we go 2 from 4 this series we have to start thinking about another coach surely? He's managed to lose several highly respected assistants, over-promoted others and bar a third place finish in the WC accomplished roughly fuck all