Sale vs Racing 92

[Epaminondas Pules]

Sale Sharks Starting XV:  

15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom Roebuck, 13. Rob du Preez, 12. Luke James, 11. Tom O’Flaherty, 10. George Ford, 9. Gus Warr, 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. James Harper, 4. Ben Bamber, 5. Jonny Hill, 6. JL du Preez, 7. Ben Curry ©, 8. Dan du Preez.  

Replacements:  

16. Tadgh McElroy, 17. Si McIntyre, 18. WillGriff John, 19. Josh Beaumont, 20. Sam Dugdale, 21. Raffi Quirke, 22. Waisea Nayacalevu, 23. Alex Wills.

[Epaminondas Pules]

The Composition of Racing 92
1
Guram Gogichashvili
2
Camille Chat
3
Lucio Sordoni
4
Junior Kpoku
5
Will Rowlands
6
Cameron Woki
7
Maxime Baudonne
8
Hacjivah Dayimani
9
Nolan Le Garrec
10
Dan
Lancaster
11
Max Spring
12
Henry Chavancy
13
Sam James
14
Henry Arundell
15
Tristan Tedder


Replacements:
Fabien Sanconnie - Antoine Gibert - Ibrahim Diallo - Gia Kharaishvili - Clovis Lebail - Wame Naituvi - Lino Julien - Diego Escobar

[Puja]

I really hope AOF is being given an overdue rest, rather than having got injured from playing 10 games in 11 weeks at the age of 20. Seemed stupid not to rest him last week, given they were throwing the Glasgow match anyway.

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

Looking forward to seeing how Dan Lancaster goes tonight. Starting nearly every week for Racing so he must be something special. Hope we can bring him back to England before the World Cup..

[Captainhaircut]

Well Lancaster played like a guy who only gets a game because he’s the coaches son…

Arundell absolutely woeful. All this chat about how a few years in France would make him a better player seems a very far fetch.

[TheNomad]

Arundell, and his situation, is a massive shame

Incredible talent, not getting the game time or variety he needs.

I hope this serves as a cautionary tale to others - he’s made a big mistake going there at that stage of his career

[FKAS]

Arundell, and his situation, is a massive shame

Incredible talent, not getting the game time or variety he needs.

I hope this serves as a cautionary tale to others - he’s made a big mistake going there at that stage of his career

19 games (15 starts) last season and 9 games (8 starts) so far this season. He's getting game time. Whether the coaching setup there is doing anything for him and whether his work ethic is up to scratch are open to debate.

Hopefully he returns to the Prem sooner rather than later.

[Captainhaircut]

Main issue for me with Arundell is that he’s being played on the wing when he should be getting game time at full back.

[FKAS]

I dunno, not sure I see him becoming an international quality 15 without some massive improvements. An international wing, that level is very obtainable.

[TheNomad]

He won’t get to be a credible 15 without game time there - he used to have so much more to his game when I saw him in the prem. He popped up all over the place. He just seems to have lost that

[Mikey Brown]

Really like this from Ben Curry.

Player of the match Ben Curry: "My favourite moment was Tom Roebuck's tackle on Henry Arundell. Henry is not a small boy, a great player, but I was very impressed with Roebuck tonight, he showed a different side of him which perhaps coaches have questioned. I was really happy for him.
"The work he puts in day in and day out doesn't get seen. He is knocking on the door.
"He was very disappointed after the summer - he came on against Japan and played really well and to get dropped, hit him really hard.
"You can start feeling sorry for yourself or you can show people what you can do. He has gone multiple steps forward since the summer."

Feels like he is unlikely to ever become what Tom is/was for England, but he seems to be a great club captain.

As massive as Murley fan boy as I am, and IFW/Freeman/Sleightholme are looking great, it does feel like Roebuck has something we need to make use of. Shame he’s not more Scottish really.

Arundell is a weird one. I can see why he’d want to take the money and get away from the hype/expectation for a bit. Was he ever really a much more rounded player? He feels a bit like Hodge to me - a fantastic finisher and counter attacker, but I don’t know how much of the core fullback stuff he’s actually good at?

Wing makes sense for him doesn’t it?

[p/d]

Lot of time for B Curry. Comes across as a players player.

Rate Roebuck highly. An honest winger.

As for Henry. God only knows what the next step is.

[jngf]

Lot of time for B Curry. Comes across as a players player.

Rate Roebuck highly. An honest winger.

As for Henry. God only knows what the next step is.

Is Ben Curry more of an out and out openside than Tom? always got this impression at least since the latter started being used at 6/8 by Eddie.

[Mikey Brown]

Definitely, yeah.

Tom Curry did incredibly well to become the physical force he is/was, but it’s come at a great cost IMO.

[Puja]

Arundell is a weird one. I can see why he’d want to take the money and get away from the hype/expectation for a bit. Was he ever really a much more rounded player? He feels a bit like Hodge to me - a fantastic finisher and counter attacker, but I don’t know how much of the core fullback stuff he’s actually good at?

He suffered from shooting to fame too quickly - people and press started treating him as the finished article when he was still a very raw talent, learning the game. Les Kiss was doing a superb job keeping his feet on the ground and not treating him like a superstar, but then Irish went bang and suddenly he's being fought over and signed by Racing as a Galactico, with the expectation that he is a first team player who is paid to produce wonders.

I think it was a mistake not going to Bath and having Van Graan be his new Les Kiss.

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

Arundell a stark warning to those who go to France “to become better players”.

The only English players we’ve seen go over there are and do well are the ones who had a bit behind them already- Willis x2, Mercer.

Even looking at Kpoku who is keen to tell us how much quicker and bigger the French league is (despite never player in the prem) and is playing for a Racing side who are generally pretty shit.

Hopefully some young lads take heed of it and realise it isn’t the place to go and develop your career- it’s the place to go and finish your career after you’ve got 100 caps.

[Which Tyler]

Arundell a stark warning to those who go to France “to become better players”.

The only English players we’ve seen go over there are and do well are the ones who had a bit behind them already- Willis x2, Mercer.

Even looking at Kpoku who is keen to tell us how much quicker and bigger the French league is (despite never player in the prem) and is playing for a Racing side who are generally pretty shit.

Hopefully some young lads take heed of it and realise it isn’t the place to go and develop your career- it’s the place to go and finish your career after you’ve got 100 caps.

Though I'd question whether any of those 3 particularly I proved in France (you didn't say improve either, but it's relevant to the conversation)
Zach and Jack I proved their profiles, by being well integrated cogs in excellent teams, but I'm not sure they are better players as a result. Allowed to do what they do best, whilst no-one cares about what they don't do so well, because plenty of team mates provide that already (and neither are bad at the stuff they're not stellar at)

[Banquo]

Players looking better in good teams shock

[Which Tyler]

Yup
Although you've still got to be a good player in the first place - a good team will 'carry' a non-flashy glue player, and allow a good player to shine; but is likely to be ruthless if you start looking like a passenger