6 Nations Squad Announcement - 11:30am

[Mellsblue]

The Times reporting that Mitchell should be fine for Ireland he just can’t train fully this week. It was a knee on knee bang with no internal damage etc, just a case of stiffness & pain management.

That's an absolute result if true. Hope it's just this week and he can have a full week to get up to speed.

Puja

Agreed. He’s probably our most important player when thinking off drop off in quality to replacement.

[Mikey Brown]

Forwards

1. Ellis Genge (vice-captain), Fin Baxter, Bevan Rodd
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, Theo Dan, Curtis Langdon
3. Will Stuart, Joe Heyes, Asher Opoku-Fordjour
4. Maro Itoje (captain), Ollie Chessum
5. George Martin, Arthur Clark
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, Tom Curry, Ted Hill
7. Ben Curry, Henry Pollock
8. Ben Earl, Tom Willis

Backs

9. Ben Spencer, Harry Randall, Raffi Quirke, (Alex Mitchell)
10. Marcus Smith, Fin Smith, George Ford
11. Ollie Sleightholme, Cadan Murley
12. Henry Slade, Fraser Dingwall
13. Ollie Lawrence, Oscar Beard
14. Tommy Freeman, Tom Roebuck
15. Freddie Steward, Elliot Daly

Rearranged this, in case anyone gives a shit or couldn't quite remember who is in the squad. Obviously a bit of guesswork about who is going where in the back row.

[Banquo]

Mostly because there's only so many weeks in a year,

No sh’t. Or you could have less European games. Saints certainly not happy about this weekend.
Not rocket science though is it? Or do you really think this is a good solution?

It's the piecemeal bullshit that's the problem. If there was a run of Prem games and the last one didn't have any of the internationals, it wouldn't be great, but at least there'd be a sense of "The Prem is the buildup to the 6N". It'd be treated as important.

The message we are sending here is, "We have done a couple of weekends of important stuff and we have a spare weekend where there's no internationals... sure let's shove a Prem week in there. Gotta fit them in somewhere, I guess!" And then we wonder why we can't get big television deals or sponsorship when not even we treat it as a valuable property.

We need to stop interleaving competitions just because we nicked that structure from football's european comps, and play the whole Prem and the whole European in two separate blocks.

Puja

Indeed. There's an answer if you work hard enough and bang heads blah blah

[Banquo]

That seems like a pretty harsh assessment. He got infamously bumped in a tackle for England once; I don't think that makes him a turnstile.

Puja

He'll make the tackle, just not on the gainline. He's not a dominant tackler, never has been.

Dingwall has skills to like but not sure the best way to ease him into international rugby is in a new midfield is up against Ireland with Aki who's likely to exacerbate Dingwall's major weakness.

We're probably stuck with Slade/Lawrence for the first two tests. For the later three we could probably chance a change.

We do get to decide how our defence lines up, you know? If Dingwall is a significant weakness in defence 1-on-1 vs Aki (which I'm not convinced by, especially not compared to Slade), we don't have to stand him there. We can put Lawrence in defence at 12 just like we normally do.

I'd agree that we're doomed to suffer Slade/Lawrence for at least the first two tests, but that's resignation and depression, rather than because I think it's the right thing to do.

Puja

Well this. Dingwall is a very good defender in the 13 channel, where he reads the game better than most. Course if we stick with same defensive patterns that saw the outside channels shredded with regularity in the last n games, it would take a superman to paper those cracks over; its ironic saying don't pick Dingwall because of his defence when our incumbent backs defence has been so sh8t.

[Banquo]

The Times reporting that Mitchell should be fine for Ireland he just can’t train fully this week. It was a knee on knee bang with no internal damage etc, just a case of stiffness & pain management.

That's an absolute result if true. Hope it's just this week and he can have a full week to get up to speed.

Puja

yep, knee on knee is what is occurred

[Oakboy]

He'll make the tackle, just not on the gainline. He's not a dominant tackler, never has been.

Dingwall has skills to like but not sure the best way to ease him into international rugby is in a new midfield is up against Ireland with Aki who's likely to exacerbate Dingwall's major weakness.

We're probably stuck with Slade/Lawrence for the first two tests. For the later three we could probably chance a change.

We do get to decide how our defence lines up, you know? If Dingwall is a significant weakness in defence 1-on-1 vs Aki (which I'm not convinced by, especially not compared to Slade), we don't have to stand him there. We can put Lawrence in defence at 12 just like we normally do.

I'd agree that we're doomed to suffer Slade/Lawrence for at least the first two tests, but that's resignation and depression, rather than because I think it's the right thing to do.

Puja

Well this. Dingwall is a very good defender in the 13 channel, where he reads the game better than most. Course if we stick with same defensive patterns that saw the outside channels shredded with regularity in the last n games, it would take a superman to paper those cracks over; its ironic saying don't pick Dingwall because of his defence when our incumbent backs defence has been so sh8t.

Players or system? Or, both?

[Epaminondas Pules]

He'll make the tackle, just not on the gainline. He's not a dominant tackler, never has been.

Dingwall has skills to like but not sure the best way to ease him into international rugby is in a new midfield is up against Ireland with Aki who's likely to exacerbate Dingwall's major weakness.

We're probably stuck with Slade/Lawrence for the first two tests. For the later three we could probably chance a change.

We do get to decide how our defence lines up, you know? If Dingwall is a significant weakness in defence 1-on-1 vs Aki (which I'm not convinced by, especially not compared to Slade), we don't have to stand him there. We can put Lawrence in defence at 12 just like we normally do.

I'd agree that we're doomed to suffer Slade/Lawrence for at least the first two tests, but that's resignation and depression, rather than because I think it's the right thing to do.

Puja

Well this. Dingwall is a very good defender in the 13 channel, where he reads the game better than most. Course if we stick with same defensive patterns that saw the outside channels shredded with regularity in the last n games, it would take a superman to paper those cracks over; its ironic saying don't pick Dingwall because of his defence when our incumbent backs defence has been so sh8t.

It wasn't that good!

[Epaminondas Pules]

We do get to decide how our defence lines up, you know? If Dingwall is a significant weakness in defence 1-on-1 vs Aki (which I'm not convinced by, especially not compared to Slade), we don't have to stand him there. We can put Lawrence in defence at 12 just like we normally do.

I'd agree that we're doomed to suffer Slade/Lawrence for at least the first two tests, but that's resignation and depression, rather than because I think it's the right thing to do.

Puja

Well this. Dingwall is a very good defender in the 13 channel, where he reads the game better than most. Course if we stick with same defensive patterns that saw the outside channels shredded with regularity in the last n games, it would take a superman to paper those cracks over; its ironic saying don't pick Dingwall because of his defence when our incumbent backs defence has been so sh8t.

Players or system? Or, both?

Both, and confusion / lack of clarity from the coaches. Plus add in match sharpness. Slade for example, coming back in after almost no game time. That's on Sweaty Ballbags!

[Beasties]

Clark, Langdon, Pollock, Spencer and Quirke called up to replace Coles, George, Dombrandt, JvP and Mitchell …

Mitchell still with the squad for rehab but that’s a massive blow.

Have to hope his injury isn't serious. Bad enough if he misses the Ireland game but very probably terminal to any chances of more than 2 wins if he's out for the duration.

OTOH pleased for Langdon and Quirke. Willis' chance of at least making the bench have gone up too. Pleased we’ve gone for Clark rather than Ewels too.

Crikey, there’s some opportunity there suddenly presented.

[jngf]

Forwards

1. Ellis Genge (vice-captain), Fin Baxter, Bevan Rodd
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, Theo Dan, Curtis Langdon
3. Will Stuart, Joe Heyes, Asher Opoku-Fordjour
4. Maro Itoje (captain), Ollie Chessum
5. George Martin, Arthur Clark
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, Tom Curry, Ted Hill
7. Ben Curry, Henry Pollock
8. Ben Earl, Tom Willis

Backs

9. Ben Spencer, Harry Randall, Raffi Quirke, (Alex Mitchell)
10. Marcus Smith, Fin Smith, George Ford
11. Ollie Sleightholme, Cadan Murley
12. Henry Slade, Fraser Dingwall
13. Ollie Lawrence, Oscar Beard
14. Tommy Freeman, Tom Roebuck
15. Freddie Steward, Elliot Daly

Rearranged this, in case anyone gives a shit or couldn't quite remember who is in the squad. Obviously a bit of guesswork about who is going where in the back row.

Please no more Ben Earl starting at 8 - by all means give him the odd go at bursting from an attacking scrum but he’s a round peg in a square hole otherwise imo

[Mikey Brown]

I'll pass that along.

[Puja]

Forwards

1. Ellis Genge (vice-captain), Fin Baxter, Bevan Rodd
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, Theo Dan, Curtis Langdon
3. Will Stuart, Joe Heyes, Asher Opoku-Fordjour
4. Maro Itoje (captain), Ollie Chessum
5. George Martin, Arthur Clark
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, Tom Curry, Ted Hill
7. Ben Curry, Henry Pollock
8. Ben Earl, Tom Willis

Backs

9. Ben Spencer, Harry Randall, Raffi Quirke, (Alex Mitchell)
10. Marcus Smith, Fin Smith, George Ford
11. Ollie Sleightholme, Cadan Murley
12. Henry Slade, Fraser Dingwall
13. Ollie Lawrence, Oscar Beard
14. Tommy Freeman, Tom Roebuck
15. Freddie Steward, Elliot Daly

Rearranged this, in case anyone gives a shit or couldn't quite remember who is in the squad. Obviously a bit of guesswork about who is going where in the back row.

Good work sir; much appreciated.

Although it has allowed me to make the horrifying realisation that injuries have left the squad with only one vice-captain. What are we going to do?!

Puja

[Oakboy]

Forwards

1. Ellis Genge (vice-captain), Fin Baxter, Bevan Rodd
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, Theo Dan, Curtis Langdon
3. Will Stuart, Joe Heyes, Asher Opoku-Fordjour
4. Maro Itoje (captain), Ollie Chessum
5. George Martin, Arthur Clark
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, Tom Curry, Ted Hill
7. Ben Curry, Henry Pollock
8. Ben Earl, Tom Willis

Backs

9. Ben Spencer, Harry Randall, Raffi Quirke, (Alex Mitchell)
10. Marcus Smith, Fin Smith, George Ford
11. Ollie Sleightholme, Cadan Murley
12. Henry Slade, Fraser Dingwall
13. Ollie Lawrence, Oscar Beard
14. Tommy Freeman, Tom Roebuck
15. Freddie Steward, Elliot Daly

Rearranged this, in case anyone gives a shit or couldn't quite remember who is in the squad. Obviously a bit of guesswork about who is going where in the back row.

Good work sir; much appreciated.

Although it has allowed me to make the horrifying realisation that injuries have left the squad with only one vice-captain. What are we going to do?!

Puja

Demote him and find another player that does 80?

[Mikey Brown]

I think any of Curry, Earl, Ford or Slade could be in the mix to play backup for Genge.

Looking through those names again it's quite alarming to realise we could field a Raffi, Fin, Cadan, Henry, Oscar, Freddie, Elliot backline.

Ted, Henry, Chandler in the back row isn't bad either. I don't know if Asher is considered a toff name or not but the rest of the front row options more than make up for tight-head.

[Banquo]

We do get to decide how our defence lines up, you know? If Dingwall is a significant weakness in defence 1-on-1 vs Aki (which I'm not convinced by, especially not compared to Slade), we don't have to stand him there. We can put Lawrence in defence at 12 just like we normally do.

I'd agree that we're doomed to suffer Slade/Lawrence for at least the first two tests, but that's resignation and depression, rather than because I think it's the right thing to do.

Puja

Well this. Dingwall is a very good defender in the 13 channel, where he reads the game better than most. Course if we stick with same defensive patterns that saw the outside channels shredded with regularity in the last n games, it would take a superman to paper those cracks over; its ironic saying don't pick Dingwall because of his defence when our incumbent backs defence has been so sh8t.

Players or system? Or, both?

Both I'd say, familiarity in both

[Banquo]

Well this. Dingwall is a very good defender in the 13 channel, where he reads the game better than most. Course if we stick with same defensive patterns that saw the outside channels shredded with regularity in the last n games, it would take a superman to paper those cracks over; its ironic saying don't pick Dingwall because of his defence when our incumbent backs defence has been so sh8t.

Players or system? Or, both?

Both, and confusion / lack of clarity from the coaches. Plus add in match sharpness. Slade for example, coming back in after almost no game time. That's on Sweaty Ballbags!

beat me to it!

[Oakboy]

It says something when 5 changes from the original selection amount to a cause for optimism, especially if the one injured player who mattered may now be fit.

[fivepointer]

It says something when 5 changes from the original selection amount to a cause for optimism, especially if the one injured player who mattered may now be fit.

Yes. Losing Mitchell would be a blow but if the others arent available it wouldnt be the end of the world.

George would haves started but really he is on the last lap of his England service.
Coles wouldnt have made the bench.
JvP hasnt really shown England form.
Dombrandt was a bit fortunate to get picked.

[TheDasher]

Forwards

1. Ellis Genge (vice-captain), Fin Baxter, Bevan Rodd
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, Theo Dan, Curtis Langdon
3. Will Stuart, Joe Heyes, Asher Opoku-Fordjour
4. Maro Itoje (captain), Ollie Chessum
5. George Martin, Arthur Clark
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, Tom Curry, Ted Hill
7. Ben Curry, Henry Pollock
8. Ben Earl, Tom Willis

Backs

9. Ben Spencer, Harry Randall, Raffi Quirke, (Alex Mitchell)
10. Marcus Smith, Fin Smith, George Ford
11. Ollie Sleightholme, Cadan Murley
12. Henry Slade, Fraser Dingwall
13. Ollie Lawrence, Oscar Beard
14. Tommy Freeman, Tom Roebuck
15. Freddie Steward, Elliot Daly

Rearranged this, in case anyone gives a shit or couldn't quite remember who is in the squad. Obviously a bit of guesswork about who is going where in the back row.

Concerns for me at loose-head, back-row if he picks the wrong one... there's a great back-row in there but a shite one too... and inside centre... Funny feeling being an England fan looking at that - some excellent players, a lot to build on and lot's of talent coming through but also some fundamental weaknesses that just won't allow us to beat the big boys imo.

[Danno]

The Times reporting that Mitchell should be fine for Ireland he just can’t train fully this week. It was a knee on knee bang with no internal damage etc, just a case of stiffness & pain management.

That's an absolute result if true. Hope it's just this week and he can have a full week to get up to speed.

Puja

yep, knee on knee is what is occurred

God that hurts like buggery, amazed he finished the half

[jngf]

Forwards

1. Ellis Genge (vice-captain), Fin Baxter, Bevan Rodd
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, Theo Dan, Curtis Langdon
3. Will Stuart, Joe Heyes, Asher Opoku-Fordjour
4. Maro Itoje (captain), Ollie Chessum
5. George Martin, Arthur Clark
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, Tom Curry, Ted Hill
7. Ben Curry, Henry Pollock
8. Ben Earl, Tom Willis

Backs

9. Ben Spencer, Harry Randall, Raffi Quirke, (Alex Mitchell)
10. Marcus Smith, Fin Smith, George Ford
11. Ollie Sleightholme, Cadan Murley
12. Henry Slade, Fraser Dingwall
13. Ollie Lawrence, Oscar Beard
14. Tommy Freeman, Tom Roebuck
15. Freddie Steward, Elliot Daly

Rearranged this, in case anyone gives a shit or couldn't quite remember who is in the squad. Obviously a bit of guesswork about who is going where in the back row.

Concerns for me at loose-head, back-row if he picks the wrong one... there's a great back-row in there but a shite one too... and inside centre... Funny feeling being an England fan looking at that - some excellent players, a lot to build on and lot's of talent coming through but also some fundamental weaknesses that just won't allow us to beat the big boys imo.

There’s always the danger with England sides that the individual parts are greater than the whole ( often due to ballsed up positional selection e.g. let’s play a 7 at 8, a lock at 6, a 15 on the wing and especially a 6 at 7! ) - only really bucked the trend in few years leading to RWC 2003

[Danno]

Seen elsewhere that Mitchell has a banged knee and may even make the Ireland game, albeit having missed a week of training.

[TheDasher]

Forwards

1. Ellis Genge (vice-captain), Fin Baxter, Bevan Rodd
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, Theo Dan, Curtis Langdon
3. Will Stuart, Joe Heyes, Asher Opoku-Fordjour
4. Maro Itoje (captain), Ollie Chessum
5. George Martin, Arthur Clark
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, Tom Curry, Ted Hill
7. Ben Curry, Henry Pollock
8. Ben Earl, Tom Willis

Backs

9. Ben Spencer, Harry Randall, Raffi Quirke, (Alex Mitchell)
10. Marcus Smith, Fin Smith, George Ford
11. Ollie Sleightholme, Cadan Murley
12. Henry Slade, Fraser Dingwall
13. Ollie Lawrence, Oscar Beard
14. Tommy Freeman, Tom Roebuck
15. Freddie Steward, Elliot Daly

Rearranged this, in case anyone gives a shit or couldn't quite remember who is in the squad. Obviously a bit of guesswork about who is going where in the back row.

Concerns for me at loose-head, back-row if he picks the wrong one... there's a great back-row in there but a shite one too... and inside centre... Funny feeling being an England fan looking at that - some excellent players, a lot to build on and lot's of talent coming through but also some fundamental weaknesses that just won't allow us to beat the big boys imo.

There’s always the danger with England sides that the individual parts are greater than the whole ( often due to ballsed up positional selection e.g. let’s play a 7 at 8, a lock at 6, a 15 on the wing and especially a 6 at 7! ) - only really bucked the trend in few years leading to RWC 2003

I meant to say concerns at lock too to be honest. Itoje is a great player I'm just not convinced Itoje and Martin is good enough and not convinced Itoje and Chessum is lumpy enough.

We shall see.

[jngf]

Concerns for me at loose-head, back-row if he picks the wrong one... there's a great back-row in there but a shite one too... and inside centre... Funny feeling being an England fan looking at that - some excellent players, a lot to build on and lot's of talent coming through but also some fundamental weaknesses that just won't allow us to beat the big boys imo.

There’s always the danger with England sides that the individual parts are greater than the whole ( often due to ballsed up positional selection e.g. let’s play a 7 at 8, a lock at 6, a 15 on the wing and especially a 6 at 7! ) - only really bucked the trend in few years leading to RWC 2003

I meant to say concerns at lock too to be honest. Itoje is a great player I'm just not convinced Itoje and Martin is good enough and not convinced Itoje and Chessum is lumpy enough.

We shall see.

Pack wise I just don’t see England as having been an especially physically intimidating or imposing side in recent years - if you were to pick out some genuine hard men (and I don’t mean dirty but just nails guys) you’ld say Underhill and Lawes for sure and possibly Marler, Martin, Tom Curry, Itoje and Genge but that’s it.

[p/d]

Seen elsewhere that Mitchell has a banged knee and may even make the Ireland game, albeit having missed a week of training.

Two posts earlier?