Snap General Election called

[Banquo]

Pop quiz:
Is the following quote attributable to Rachel Reeves or Liz Truss?
“The demand is there but there are far too many supply-side constraints...”

There are always quips about opportunistic Labour politicians being indistinguishable from Tories, but this lot appear to be taking the piss. They've looked at the last 14 years of economic failure and stagnation through austerity and pandering to supply side economics and appear to be thinking, "Maybe it'll work if **we** do it cause we're the good guys!"

It's made worse when you think about Starmer's leadership bid was around keeping the popular leftist policies from the 2017 and 2019 manifestos and presenting them with a not-Corbyn persona. In related news, I understand John McDonnell is due to have his suspension, that he got for voting against keeping the 2 child benefit cap, extended into a possible expulsion from the Labour party because he won't [checks notes] promise not to vote for left wing policies in the future. Incredible.

Puja

All minor stuff compared to the fact that Banquo may be able to catch the train to Bedford at some point in the next decade or two.

why on earth is that a good thing


Its a great test of sweeping away obstacles though, and cunningly cuts very few labour seats- all the Cambridge/Oxford stuff Reeves announced today is already in planning (lol).

[Mellsblue]

There are always quips about opportunistic Labour politicians being indistinguishable from Tories, but this lot appear to be taking the piss. They've looked at the last 14 years of economic failure and stagnation through austerity and pandering to supply side economics and appear to be thinking, "Maybe it'll work if **we** do it cause we're the good guys!"

It's made worse when you think about Starmer's leadership bid was around keeping the popular leftist policies from the 2017 and 2019 manifestos and presenting them with a not-Corbyn persona. In related news, I understand John McDonnell is due to have his suspension, that he got for voting against keeping the 2 child benefit cap, extended into a possible expulsion from the Labour party because he won't [checks notes] promise not to vote for left wing policies in the future. Incredible.

Puja

All minor stuff compared to the fact that Banquo may be able to catch the train to Bedford at some point in the next decade or two.

why on earth is that a good thing


Its a great test of sweeping away obstacles though, and cunningly cuts very few labour seats- all the Cambridge/Oxford stuff Reeves announced today is already in planning (lol).

Makes it easier for you to watch some winning rugby

Yep, they are making a lot of noise about stuff (not just this) that was already in the pipeline.

[Puja]

Wes Streeting declaring that NHS diversity programs are "anti-whiteness" and talks about "ideological hobby horses" that "have no place in the health service."

I knew we were planning on cozying up to Trump, but I didn't realise it was going to be quite that overt. Streeting really does seem to be a nasty bit of work.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Wes Streeting declaring that NHS diversity programs are "anti-whiteness" and talks about "ideological hobby horses" that "have no place in the health service."

I knew we were planning on cozying up to Trump, but I didn't realise it was going to be quite that overt. Streeting really does seem to be a nasty bit of work.

Puja

It doesn't sound quite so bad in this article (although I don't know what the whole interview was like). Having said that, Streeting is such a centre-right bag of wind the benefit of the doubt is probably wasted on him.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... -streeting

[Puja]

Wes Streeting declaring that NHS diversity programs are "anti-whiteness" and talks about "ideological hobby horses" that "have no place in the health service."

I knew we were planning on cozying up to Trump, but I didn't realise it was going to be quite that overt. Streeting really does seem to be a nasty bit of work.

Puja

It doesn't sound quite so bad in this article (although I don't know what the whole interview was like). Having said that, Streeting is such a centre-right bag of wind the benefit of the doubt is probably wasted on him.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... -streeting

Okay, that context makes a fuck of a lot of difference. My apologies for sounding off without having done my research - I don't like the prick (apart from anything else, the fact that what I thought he'd done was eminently plausible and entieely on brand for him), but I have clearly unfairly maligned him here.

Apologies for the fake news; please ignore and carry on your normal lives amidst the end of days.

Puja

[Stom]

Wes Streeting declaring that NHS diversity programs are "anti-whiteness" and talks about "ideological hobby horses" that "have no place in the health service."

I knew we were planning on cozying up to Trump, but I didn't realise it was going to be quite that overt. Streeting really does seem to be a nasty bit of work.

Puja

It doesn't sound quite so bad in this article (although I don't know what the whole interview was like). Having said that, Streeting is such a centre-right bag of wind the benefit of the doubt is probably wasted on him.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... -streeting

Honestly, I like pretty much everything said there…

[Donny osmond]

Wes Streeting declaring that NHS diversity programs are "anti-whiteness" and talks about "ideological hobby horses" that "have no place in the health service."

I knew we were planning on cozying up to Trump, but I didn't realise it was going to be quite that overt. Streeting really does seem to be a nasty bit of work.

Puja

It doesn't sound quite so bad in this article (although I don't know what the whole interview was like). Having said that, Streeting is such a centre-right bag of wind the benefit of the doubt is probably wasted on him.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... -streeting

Honestly, I like pretty much everything said there…

One would have to be working very hard to take offence at any of that

[Son of Mathonwy]

It doesn't sound quite so bad in this article (although I don't know what the whole interview was like). Having said that, Streeting is such a centre-right bag of wind the benefit of the doubt is probably wasted on him.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... -streeting

Honestly, I like pretty much everything said there…

One would have to be working very hard to take offence at any of that

The headline was a bit clickbaity but the article more measured, although Streeting might well have been trying to appeal to Farage's voters with his choice of words.

[Banquo]

It doesn't sound quite so bad in this article (although I don't know what the whole interview was like). Having said that, Streeting is such a centre-right bag of wind the benefit of the doubt is probably wasted on him.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... -streeting

Honestly, I like pretty much everything said there…

One would have to be working very hard to take offence at any of that

Streeting I think has some vision and ideas and is doing stuff on the qt that is sensible.

[Stom]

Honestly, I like pretty much everything said there…

One would have to be working very hard to take offence at any of that

The headline was a bit clickbaity but the article more measured, although Streeting might well have been trying to appeal to Farage's voters with his choice of words.

The choice of words in this context makes sense. Telling people that we want DEI, but we don’t want people to use it to exclude others. There are extremists.

[Son of Mathonwy]

One would have to be working very hard to take offence at any of that

The headline was a bit clickbaity but the article more measured, although Streeting might well have been trying to appeal to Farage's voters with his choice of words.

The choice of words in this context makes sense. Telling people that we want DEI, but we don’t want people to use it to exclude others. There are extremists.

I'd like to read the interview. If he's been asked about DEI then probably fair enough. If he's brought it up then more likely he's jumping on the Trump bandwagon.

[Donny osmond]

Honestly, I like pretty much everything said there…

One would have to be working very hard to take offence at any of that

Streeting I think has some vision and ideas and is doing stuff on the qt that is sensible.

Agreed, I like what he has to say, mostly.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Labour have learnt nothing from the failure of mainstream politicians across Europe and the failure of the Tories here.

Fighting on the ground of the far-right, using its arguments, promoting its concerns, doesn't work. It only normalises them, makes them relevant, empowers them. Labour (and, to be honest, the Tories too) should make a straightforward sensible case for a certain level of migration, suck the hysteria out of it and move on to more important issues. This advert is pure Farage-fuel.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... portations

[Sandydragon]

Labour have learnt nothing from the failure of mainstream politicians across Europe and the failure of the Tories here.

Fighting on the ground of the far-right, using its arguments, promoting its concerns, doesn't work. It only normalises them, makes them relevant, empowers them. Labour (and, to be honest, the Tories too) should make a straightforward sensible case for a certain level of migration, suck the hysteria out of it and move on to more important issues. This advert is pure Farage-fuel.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... portations

I partially agree. The benefits of immigration just haven’t been made to the public at all. I’d suggest that controlled immigration in some way that’s fair and ethical aligned to better comms would take the anger out of this argument.

It’s also beholden on the government, if it wants to promote open borders like the Blair government did, to ensure that local issues don’t spiral out of control and become ‘evidence’ for extremists.

No one, except the BNP potentially, can outflank Farage on immigration.Badenoch is onto a loser here, but the Tories haven’t yet realised that moving to the right won’t make them suddenly more popular.

[Son of Mathonwy]

In their ongoing effort to ape Reform UK, Labour are (probably) breaching international law by effectively barring
citizenship forever from those who have been granted asylum after arriving illegally here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... us-journey

Will this just get overturned by the courts? Is this just for the press? Is Cooper just evil?

[Puja]

In their ongoing effort to ape Reform UK, Labour are (probably) breaching international law by effectively barring
citizenship forever from those who have been granted asylum after arriving illegally here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... us-journey

Will this just get overturned by the courts? Is this just for the press? Is Cooper just evil?

I don't actually know what they're hoping to gain from this? They can't appeal to Reform's voters better than Reform can and by trying to, they are accepting the premise of the debate and fighting on grounds that Reform have prepared and already landmined. Surely it is better to march to the best of your own drum, rather than attempting to march better than the drummer to the drummer's beat? Would they not be better making the public case for being equitable, for sensible immigration and asylum, for foreign aid, for benefits and the social safety net? =

The British populace aren't idiots - if Labour stand up and make the case for the good things about being decent, then they could be understood and people could be won over to a humane point of view. If, however, Labour continue accepting the premise that it is terrible and a disgrace and that Something Must Be Done, then there's only one point of view in the public eye, one form of information to the populace at large, and that will be that Reform is right.

And if that's where the Overton Window moves to, why do they think people will vote for Not Quite Reform Wearing A Red Rosette, instead of original flavour?

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

These days if you say you're English you'll be arrested and thrown in jail.

[Son of Mathonwy]

In their ongoing effort to ape Reform UK, Labour are (probably) breaching international law by effectively barring
citizenship forever from those who have been granted asylum after arriving illegally here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... us-journey

Will this just get overturned by the courts? Is this just for the press? Is Cooper just evil?

I don't actually know what they're hoping to gain from this? They can't appeal to Reform's voters better than Reform can and by trying to, they are accepting the premise of the debate and fighting on grounds that Reform have prepared and already landmined. Surely it is better to march to the best of your own drum, rather than attempting to march better than the drummer to the drummer's beat? Would they not be better making the public case for being equitable, for sensible immigration and asylum, for foreign aid, for benefits and the social safety net? =

The British populace aren't idiots - if Labour stand up and make the case for the good things about being decent, then they could be understood and people could be won over to a humane point of view. If, however, Labour continue accepting the premise that it is terrible and a disgrace and that Something Must Be Done, then there's only one point of view in the public eye, one form of information to the populace at large, and that will be that Reform is right.

And if that's where the Overton Window moves to, why do they think people will vote for Not Quite Reform Wearing A Red Rosette, instead of original flavour?

Puja

Totally agree. This would be my way of approaching this and several other difficult issues in politics. A few years ago I hoped that Starmer would take that approach. I was wrong (Starmer lied). So now we only get this kind of talk from the Greens and Corbyn (et al), although on immigration I've not heard anyone take this approach.

Farage laughed his little head off when asked about Labour's immigration policies this week.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Vance tells Europe to listen to their voters and give them more far right politics. No need, Starmer is already doing his best to copy Farage, but thanks for the concern JD, you say it so nicely.

[Which Tyler]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ne-kellogg

Starmer to join Macron-led European crisis summit on Trump’s Ukraine plan

French president calls for urgent talks in Paris amid fears US leader is sidelining allies

The French president, Emmanuel Macron, was on Saturday night seeking to convene an emergency meeting of European leaders, including the UK prime minister, Keir Starmer, as concerns grew over Donald Trump’s attempts to seize control of the Ukraine peace process.

Speaking at the Munich security conference, Poland’s foreign minister, Radosław Sikorski, said he was “very glad that President Macron has called our leaders to Paris” to discuss “in a very serious fashion” the challenges posed by Trump.

...

ARTICLE CONTINUES

[Son of Mathonwy]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ne-kellogg

Starmer to join Macron-led European crisis summit on Trump’s Ukraine plan

French president calls for urgent talks in Paris amid fears US leader is sidelining allies

The French president, Emmanuel Macron, was on Saturday night seeking to convene an emergency meeting of European leaders, including the UK prime minister, Keir Starmer, as concerns grew over Donald Trump’s attempts to seize control of the Ukraine peace process.

Speaking at the Munich security conference, Poland’s foreign minister, Radosław Sikorski, said he was “very glad that President Macron has called our leaders to Paris” to discuss “in a very serious fashion” the challenges posed by Trump.

...

ARTICLE CONTINUES

Good. Let's coordinate as much as possible, now the US are out for themselves (and Russia).

Not sure a European army is realistic but we should get our militaries set up so they can work together, with as much interchangeability as possible.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Olaf Scholz's failure is a preview of what will happen to our own centre-left* leader if he fails to make life better for the people. Although in Starmer's case the weakness of the Tories might see the far right win here.


* okay that's a bit of a stretch. Centre . . . centre-right?

[Sandydragon]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ne-kellogg

Starmer to join Macron-led European crisis summit on Trump’s Ukraine plan

French president calls for urgent talks in Paris amid fears US leader is sidelining allies

The French president, Emmanuel Macron, was on Saturday night seeking to convene an emergency meeting of European leaders, including the UK prime minister, Keir Starmer, as concerns grew over Donald Trump’s attempts to seize control of the Ukraine peace process.

Speaking at the Munich security conference, Poland’s foreign minister, Radosław Sikorski, said he was “very glad that President Macron has called our leaders to Paris” to discuss “in a very serious fashion” the challenges posed by Trump.

...

ARTICLE CONTINUES

Good. Let's coordinate as much as possible, now the US are out for themselves (and Russia).

Not sure a European army is realistic but we should get our militaries set up so they can work together, with as much interchangeability as possible.

Those WU countries in NATO are pretty much there on the coordination. Yes there will be key people to replace but it’s possible. The hardest part will be the replacement of key capabilities that the Americans bring

[Son of Mathonwy]

In their ongoing effort to ape Reform UK, Labour are (probably) breaching international law by effectively barring
citizenship forever from those who have been granted asylum after arriving illegally here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... us-journey

Will this just get overturned by the courts? Is this just for the press? Is Cooper just evil?

I don't actually know what they're hoping to gain from this? They can't appeal to Reform's voters better than Reform can and by trying to, they are accepting the premise of the debate and fighting on grounds that Reform have prepared and already landmined. Surely it is better to march to the best of your own drum, rather than attempting to march better than the drummer to the drummer's beat? Would they not be better making the public case for being equitable, for sensible immigration and asylum, for foreign aid, for benefits and the social safety net? =

The British populace aren't idiots - if Labour stand up and make the case for the good things about being decent, then they could be understood and people could be won over to a humane point of view. If, however, Labour continue accepting the premise that it is terrible and a disgrace and that Something Must Be Done, then there's only one point of view in the public eye, one form of information to the populace at large, and that will be that Reform is right.

And if that's where the Overton Window moves to, why do they think people will vote for Not Quite Reform Wearing A Red Rosette, instead of original flavour?

Puja

Totally agree. This would be my way of approaching this and several other difficult issues in politics. A few years ago I hoped that Starmer would take that approach. I was wrong (Starmer lied). So now we only get this kind of talk from the Greens and Corbyn (et al), although on immigration I've not heard anyone take this approach.

Farage laughed his little head off when asked about Labour's immigration policies this week.

Farage now clearly ahead in the polls. When will it filter through to what passes for brains in Starmer's advisors that aping the far right empower them? I know Starmer is a conviction-free zone, so in theory could do the right thing (eventually, after eliminating all other options) but more likely he'll doggedly continue to chase the ReformUK vote for a few more years, when it'll be far too late to rescue things with a change of direction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... l_election

[Son of Mathonwy]

Starmer with Trump was pretty sickening to watch. World-class toadying.

However, he didn't have much choice. A certain level of bootlicking was forced on him because of the dangerous level of dependence on the US previous governments have allowed. Given the hand he was dealt, he played it pretty well.