America

[Son of Mathonwy]

I think it's odds on that US democracy is effectively over. With Trump loyalists in most positions, a supine congress, presidential immunity from prosecution, Trump's willingness to pardon anyone for anything at any time (and many violent loyalists shielded by this), I don't see the law being enforced against him. I think elections will continue but high (and increasingly brazen) levels of voter suppression in swing states will lock the Republicans into power. Who will protest if Trump's loyalist FBI is ready to lock them up?

The main ways I can see this being avoided are:

1) US law somehow prevails. I now doubt this.

2) Trump's excesses - particularly Elon Musk's excesses - (both the hugely regressive tax & wellfare changes, and the huge disruption and number of federal layoffs) are too much for the public, and he loses support on a massive scale, with big civil unrest. This could cause the Republicans to drop him (and use congress against him) and make even high levels of voter suppression insufficient to maintain power.

3) Trump becomes incapacitated or dies and Vance is unable to fill his shoes convincingly, so there's a struggle for power within the Republican party. However it's quite possible that Vance or someone else could assume command (of MAGA) and continue to wield the antidemocratic tools Trump created.

[Which Tyler]

You're forgetting "States (trying to) making it illegal to oppose Trump"


GOP lawmakers push to ban North Carolina from suing Trump, after lawsuits find success

Tennessee Bill Would Prohibit Voting Against Trump Immigration Policies

Not to mention:
In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good you’re not going to have to vote
and
we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless... if the left allows it to be.

[Son of Mathonwy]

You're forgetting "States (trying to) making it illegal to oppose Trump"


GOP lawmakers push to ban North Carolina from suing Trump, after lawsuits find success

Tennessee Bill Would Prohibit Voting Against Trump Immigration Policies

Not to mention:
In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good you’re not going to have to vote
and
we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless... if the left allows it to be.

Yes, all that too. His options for a third term:

1) Change the constitution. This is well beyond the Republicans' powers so is unlikely at this time.

2) Just run again. Ignore the constitution. Who would stop him? If it went to the supreme court I suspect they would somehow find the 22nd amendment irrelevant in this case (even though it explicitly forbids being elected president a third time).

3) Arguably he might be able to run for vice president next time, then have the elected president stand down for him to take their place. This would get around the 22nd amendment which only prohibits being elected president more than twice (rather than being president more than twice). It would probably be unconstitutional to run as vice president at that point due to the 12th amendment but I've no doubt the supreme court would allow it (for people called Donald Trump).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-se ... nstitution

If he's still up for it, and the citizens aren't trying to lynch him, I think he takes option 2.

[paddy no 11]

That's some sham interview

[Which Tyler]

Well, that went well.
And in front of all those cameras too - great way of having such a high powered, important meeting.

[paddy no 11]

2 bully's beating a guy up

[cashead]

Meanwhile, the Epstein Paedo Air flight logs were released, and Trump keeps popping up in them. But then again, they were known to be good friends. Trump was also named in the Diddy Party guest lists, so there's that too.

Convicted criminal, paedophile, rapist, fascist, Russian asset. The Yanks sure do know how to pick them.

[Which Tyler]

Headline should be:

Russian asset tried to bully an independent Ukrainian.
Ukrainian stood strong and holds his head up high, Russian asset doesn't even realise that he's embarrassed himself.

[Mellsblue]

Well, that’s the most depressing thing to happen since the invasion began. I’m surprised Zelenskyy didn’t land a couple of punches. I wouldn’t have blamed him. What a pair of c**ts.

[paddy no 11]

What a pitiful state of affairs

[Which Tyler]

RIP NATO, or at least, a US-led version of it.

We need to up our spending more than already committed to, and spend as little of it as possible on US supplies/expertise. I'm not convinced we can even rely on them to service the kit we already have.
Forge closer ties with the EU, Canada, Australia etc.
Between the rest of NATO, we also need to train up and agree on leadership roles and coordination.

Europe can't afford to let Ukraine fall, and we have to cut the US out of any of our thinking, and reduce reliance as much as achievable.

There's a job vacancy now for "leader of the free world" the EU surely has to take that on, or we're all f****d

[paddy no 11]

An alternative I'm hearing is that Ukraine is willing to go it alone for a year so zelensky isn't as hard pressed as it seems. He rejected first minerals deal which has pissed off the bullys hence the performance today. I'm hoping this slightly less bleak picture is accurate

[Sandydragon]

Perhaps the most incredible thing I have witnessed. I don’t know what Zelensky has to do to win over Trump. There’s a precious enmity and standing up to the orange bully has tipped him over the edge.

Heaven help Ukraine. The EU has to step up.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Well, that went well.
And in front of all those cameras too - great way of having such a high powered, important meeting.

Jesus Christ. That's horrific.

Trump and Vance are doing their best to unite the whole world behind Ukraine. When Kim Jong Un sees that he'll switch sides. We are all Ukrainians now.

We (all of Europe) need to arm this guy, fill the gaps the US will no doubt leave. Can we increase defence spending to 5% just to shut those two cunts up?? USA is leader of the Axis of Fascism, everyone else needs to buckle up, we are the resistance.

(Sorry about this randomness, my sanity may take a while to return)

[Banquo]

Perhaps the most incredible thing I have witnessed. I don’t know what Zelensky has to do to win over Trump. There’s a precious enmity and standing up to the orange bully has tipped him over the edge.

Heaven help Ukraine. The EU has to step up.

I cant see how the EU can get close in a meanngful time without going literally all in on Ukraine, and Trump knows it.

Trump is a nut job and zelensky didnt play his game; he thought it was a negotiation, whereas Trump had announced and expected a deal all in us favour. Dangerous times.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Perhaps the most incredible thing I have witnessed. I don’t know what Zelensky has to do to win over Trump. There’s a precious enmity and standing up to the orange bully has tipped him over the edge.

Heaven help Ukraine. The EU has to step up.

He needs a letter from the King of Ukraine.

[Which Tyler]

Here's the real reason Trump and Zelenskyy's deal blew up in the Oval Office
Even fox are saying (I paraphrase) It wasn't a negotiation, it was a presentation, of a deal that Trump knew Zelenskyy couldn't and wouldn't sign - which angered Trump before the cameras started rolling.

[Sandydragon]

Here's the real reason Trump and Zelenskyy's deal blew up in the Oval Office
Even fox are saying (I paraphrase) It wasn't a negotiation, it was a presentation, of a deal that Trump knew Zelenskyy couldn't and wouldn't sign - which angered Trump before the cameras started rolling.

It was a total ambush. Vance’s interjection was on cue and that question from the reporter about a suit felt staged too.

Was Trump playing for his base, or Putin? It’s clear that he really doesn’t like Zelensky and fair play to Zelensky for keeping his composure and not walking out.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Here's the real reason Trump and Zelenskyy's deal blew up in the Oval Office
Even fox are saying (I paraphrase) It wasn't a negotiation, it was a presentation, of a deal that Trump knew Zelenskyy couldn't and wouldn't sign - which angered Trump before the cameras started rolling.

It was a total ambush. Vance’s interjection was on cue and that question from the reporter about a suit felt staged too.

Was Trump playing for his base, or Putin? It’s clear that he really doesn’t like Zelensky and fair play to Zelensky for keeping his composure and not walking out.

Yeah, they definitely wanted to rough him up. Either make him crawl and abase himself before them or - if he displayed a spine - lay into him in front of the world's cameras. You don't shout and rant at someone unless you want to do it - we've probably all seen this - when some bully is just looking for an excuse to lay into someone. Either they get a deal giving half of Ukraine's minerals in return for no defensive commitment or they get to throw him out and 'justify' to the American people how they are backing Russia to the hilt.

How is this playing with America I wonder? Vast swathes of them are appalled, no doubt, but for the Republican voters, who knows. One should never get one's hopes up concerning the average American on this kind of thing. It would be nice to think that they'd feel a little sympathy for the brave leader who stayed at his post when the world believed it was just a matter of days before Russia stormed Kiev, the guy who leads a medium-sized country against the superpower the West has been terrified of for decades. That they wouldn't think it was okay to drop him and side with his enemy because he wouldn't crawl.

Sure, Zelenskyy might have played it better but he was ambushed, outnumbered and interrogated in a language that he is not a master of. And if this was what we saw, who knows how they spoke to him beforehand. Poor bastard. I just hope the Americans can see this for what it is and recognise an egotistical bullying prick for who he is.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Here's the real reason Trump and Zelenskyy's deal blew up in the Oval Office
Even fox are saying (I paraphrase) It wasn't a negotiation, it was a presentation, of a deal that Trump knew Zelenskyy couldn't and wouldn't sign - which angered Trump before the cameras started rolling.

Oh god, I made the mistake of reading the comments after that article. I'd like to see a poll of how this is going down with the people but I assume it's split into blue and red like everything else. Jesus.

[Banquo]

Here's the real reason Trump and Zelenskyy's deal blew up in the Oval Office
Even fox are saying (I paraphrase) It wasn't a negotiation, it was a presentation, of a deal that Trump knew Zelenskyy couldn't and wouldn't sign - which angered Trump before the cameras started rolling.

Oh god, I made the mistake of reading the comments after that article. I'd like to see a poll of how this is going down with the people but I assume it's split into blue and red like everything else. Jesus.

me too.....weird shyte

[Which Tyler]

Daily Mail - NOW STOP THE STATE VISIT FOR "BULLY" TRUMP

[Son of Mathonwy]

Here's the real reason Trump and Zelenskyy's deal blew up in the Oval Office
Even fox are saying (I paraphrase) It wasn't a negotiation, it was a presentation, of a deal that Trump knew Zelenskyy couldn't and wouldn't sign - which angered Trump before the cameras started rolling.

Oh god, I made the mistake of reading the comments after that article. I'd like to see a poll of how this is going down with the people but I assume it's split into blue and red like everything else. Jesus.

me too.....weird shyte

I guess that's what you get in a country that considers selfishness to be a positive characteristic. And one that's had Fox News for decades.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Daily Mail - NOW STOP THE STATE VISIT FOR "BULLY" TRUMP

Yeah, like that's going to happen.

This state visit is a cheap way of avoiding tariffs. It may fail anyway but no way are we going to deliberately insult Trump by withdrawing it.

I think they might want to keep Trump well away from the public and hope there's good soundproofing though. And make sure he's far enough away that rotten vegetables and eggs can't reach him.

[Which Tyler]

Watched The Matrix this evening (so good, wish they'd made a sequel...)
There's a line in there that... doesn't seem so ridiculous now
"The peak of American society is the late '90s. It's literally all downhill after that"