New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[Mikey Brown]

Oh for fucks sake. We're doing this in here and not the actual tour thread? I wondered why nobody had commented yet.

[Puja]

Oh for fucks sake. We're doing this in here and not the actual tour thread? I wondered why nobody had commented yet.

I might shift it across, actually.

ETA. Have now done so: http://rugbyrebels.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=344304#p344304

Mod

[Banquo]

Oh for fucks sake. We're doing this in here and not the actual tour thread? I wondered why nobody had commented yet.

bless


....and in fairness, its not the tour squad , and this was where the conjecture for training squad seemed to be at.

[Scrumhead]

That final 4 is probably a decent result from an 'England XV' POV.

Having the Saracens and Gloucester contingent available is probably more useful than Bristol.

I'd be surprised if there are many capped players in there so probably something like:

1. Baxter / Iyogun
2. Langdon / Jibulu
3. Fasogbon / Davison
4. Coles / Lockett
5. Clark / Tizard
6. Kenningham / Clement
7. Pearson / Evans
8. Willis / Dombrandt
9. Porter / Englefield?
10. Benson / C. Atkinson
11. Murley / Ramm?
12. S. Atkinson / Hartley
13. Beard / Northmore
14. Elliott / Brown-Bampoe
15. Redshaw / Hodge

There's a couple in there I'm not at all sure on but I'm basing it upon the A squads so far and some where there isn't much choice but to use a capped player.

[FKAS]

Dingwall over Hartley. Sleightholme over Ramm. Don't think Furbank or Hendy will be fit in time.

A couple of capped players to just offer a bit of experience wouldn't be a bad idea.

We could do with a more experienced or just a better 15.

[Captainhaircut]

Presume this is in reference to the France games the losing semi finalists would be available wouldn’t they? Which would mean Batley and Randall plus Heyes, Ilione, JVP, OHC and Woodward versus Rodd, AOF, BCurry, Quirke, Ford, RMW, Roebuck and Carpenter.

George and Dan would be available too. CCS not fit currently but unclear how badly?

[Puja]

I'd be surprised if there are many capped players in there so probably something like:

I'm expecting the opposite - Serious Business will likely treat it as a warm-up/trial game for the Argentina games, so I'd expect as much of the first XV as is available. Not like the France XV's gonna be weak, so it'll be a good shoot out for some of the positions.

Puja

[Danno]

I'd be surprised if there are many capped players in there so probably something like:

I'm expecting the opposite - Serious Business will likely treat it as a warm-up/trial game for the Argentina games, so I'd expect as much of the first XV as is available. Not like the France XV's gonna be weak, so it'll be a good shoot out for some of the positions.

Puja

How many French internationals are likely to be available? They tend to experiment on the summer tour without an A game, so with the T14 rolling on I don't see them taking it all that seriously

[Scrumhead]

Presume this is in reference to the France games the losing semi finalists would be available wouldn’t they? Which would mean Batley and Randall plus Heyes, Ilione, JVP, OHC and Woodward versus Rodd, AOF, BCurry, Quirke, Ford, RMW, Roebuck and Carpenter.

George and Dan would be available too. CCS not fit currently but unclear how badly?

Just checked and it looks like losing semi finalists will be available for selection.

As I said in my original post, I left out the more experienced/established internationals or likely starters (Dingwall) unless there weren’t many other options (Baxter/Dombrandt).

I'd be surprised if there are many capped players in there so probably something like:

I'm expecting the opposite - Serious Business will likely treat it as a warm-up/trial game for the Argentina games, so I'd expect as much of the first XV as is available. Not like the France XV's gonna be weak, so it'll be a good shoot out for some of the positions.

Puja

How many French internationals are likely to be available? They tend to experiment on the summer tour without an A game, so with the T14 rolling on I don't see them taking it all that seriously

Yeah. Like @Danno said, I doubt France will be going all-in. I’m expecting it to be more like the old Barbarians fixtures so I’d be surprised if the more experienced internationals are included.

[Scrumhead]

My squad would be updated to something like this (adding some Bristol and Sale players as I'm anticipating a Bath vs. Tigers final).

1. Rodd / Iyogun
2. Langdon / Oghre
3. Opoku-Fordjour / Fasogbon
4. Coles / Lockett
5. Clark / Batley
6. Kenningham/ Clement
7. Pearson / Evans
8. Dombrandt / Harding
9. Quirke / Porter
10. Benson / C. Atkinson
11. Murley / Ibitoye
12. S. Atkinson / Ma'asi White
13. Beard / Northmore
14. Elliott / Brown-Bampoe
15. Carpenter / Redshaw

Again, I'm seeing this as an A game in all but name. I can't see many/any players who are more or less nailed on to tour being selected.

With this in mind, I've left out:

1. Baxter
2. George / Dan
3. N/A
4. Isiekwe
5. N/A
6. Cunningham-South
7. B. Curry
8. Willis
9. Randall
10. Ford
11. Sleightholme
12. Dingwall
13. N/A
14. Roebuck
15. Furbank (if fit)

[Which Tyler]

Remarkable rise of Ciaran Donoghue from Bath fourth choice to England bolter
Fly-half who last season was playing for Dings Crusaders is now being name-checked by Steve Borthwick
If the rise of Ciaran Donoghue has surprised you, do not fret. You are not alone.

[fivepointer]

It is a remarkable rise. He would be a bolter to go on tour but there's no denying the guy has something.

[FKAS]

With his ability to play 15 as well he could play the Furbank/M Smith creative fullback role as well as cover flyhalf. Seems a logical player to take on tour, he's in great form.

[Which Tyler]

it's far too early for him, and we're only really talking about him at all because we'll be missing Smith, Smith, Farrell & Simmonds (& Furbank?); leaving us needing 2 of Bailey, CAtkinson, Donoghue or Benson to take alongside Ford (who could very well be lost to the Lions at a moment's notice).

TBF, when you're looking at your 9th&10th choice options at FH, it's not a bad stable

[FKAS]

it's far too early for him, and we're only really talking about him at all because we'll be missing Smith, Smith, Farrell & Simmonds (& Furbank?); leaving us needing 2 of Bailey, CAtkinson, Donoghue or Benson to take alongside Ford (who could very well be lost to the Lions at a moment's notice).

TBF, when you're looking at your 9th&10th choice options at FH, it's not a bad stable

If you're good enough you're old enough.

There's also the game against the USA which is fairly ideal for giving some good prospects a run out.

[Which Tyler]

If you're good enough you're old enough.

Is an expression, not a truism.
However talented and mature a 10 year old may be, they're in no way, shape, or form "old enough" for adult rugby.
"good enough" doesn't take into account either physical or psychological maturity, not does it take into account experience and self-confidence.

Besides, absolutely nobody is saying that Donoghue or Benson are good enough yet, for being anything higher than 8th choice at best. We just find ourselves in a position where our 8th choice is likely to get some game time.

Beyond that, of course, it's worth pointing out that my objection to selecting Donoghue has absolutely nothing to do with his age - 22 is plenty old enough for international rugby

[FKAS]

If you're good enough you're old enough.

Is an expression, not a truism.
However talented and mature a 10 year old may be, they're in no way, shape, or form "old enough" for adult rugby.
"good enough" doesn't take into account either physical or psychological maturity, not does it take into account experience and self-confidence.

Besides, absolutely nobody is saying that Donoghue or Benson are good enough yet, for being anything higher than 8th choice at best. We just find ourselves in a position where our 8th choice is likely to get some game time.

Beyond that, of course, it's worth pointing out that my objection to selecting Donoghue has absolutely nothing to do with his age - 22 is plenty old enough for international rugby

I'd argue good enough means there's enough physical and psychological maturity.

Donoghue is amongst the best of what is available. I'd blood him rather than look at an older and safer option that won't offer us much going forward ala Slade.

[Mellsblue]

Here’s hoping Farrell is released by Racing and signs for Sarries in time to be eligible and is picked as a stop gap only thereby making all of this 10 selection debate irrelevant. This is the only scenario in which I would be for his selection.

[Oakboy]

Here’s hoping Farrell is released by Racing and signs for Sarries in time to be eligible and is picked as a stop gap only thereby making all of this 10 selection debate irrelevant. This is the only scenario in which I would be for his selection.

I can't think of anything polite to say to that. If the bloke is on tour he will start every match at 12 or 10 and set our rugby back years (again).

[Mellsblue]

Here’s hoping Farrell is released by Racing and signs for Sarries in time to be eligible and is picked as a stop gap only thereby making all of this 10 selection debate irrelevant. This is the only scenario in which I would be for his selection.

I can't think of anything polite to say to that. If the bloke is on tour he will start every match at 12 and 10 and set our rugby back years (again).

FTFY

[Which Tyler]

England star Ollie Lawrence 'ahead of schedule' following horror Achilles injury

Bath head of rugby Johann van Graan has revealed England star Ollie Lawrence is “ahead of schedule” on his injury return after months on the sidelines.

The powerhouse centre suffered a horrific Achilles injury on Test duty during the Six Nations and was set to be out until December, but this admission could give both Bath and England fans hope of a quicker return to the field.

[Mikey Brown]

How long before people start saying he could be a late Lions callup.

[Danno]

How long before people start saying he could be a late Lions callup.

20p says there's comments about it under the article already

[Banquo]

England star Ollie Lawrence 'ahead of schedule' following horror Achilles injury

Bath head of rugby Johann van Graan has revealed England star Ollie Lawrence is “ahead of schedule” on his injury return after months on the sidelines.

The powerhouse centre suffered a horrific Achilles injury on Test duty during the Six Nations and was set to be out until December, but this admission could give both Bath and England fans hope of a quicker return to the field.

Fingers crossed.

What’s the gold standard in Achilles tear treatment and rehab now @which. Years since I did mine and it was basically immobilise and rest, then very conservative rehab, and any acceleration I did have was pretty much gone. Then I did the other one but nowhere as bad.

[Which Tyler]

Pretty similar - immobilise in full plantar-flexion (toes pointed). Massage of the calf to encourage the ends to meet (carefully, you're going against the venous valves), consider acupuncture or some form of electrotherapy to encourage healing. Intensive rehab to maximally regain function.
NHS protocols would be the same, but ditching the massage and acupuncture / electrotherapy and 3-4 physio sessions and trusting to do your homework, probably no-one actually touching you post-surgery.

But Ollie's a professional sportsman, so he'd have been in surgery ASAP - higher risk, but higher reward - probably rescanning it weekly, potentially even more frequently, and tailoring the rehab based on the results of each scan.


IMO: NHS option is fine for your office worker couch potato who wants to walk unaffected (hilly hiking will likely hurt and fatigue), and maybe jog once in a while.
Gold standard conservative is fine for the vast majority of low-mid level amateurs doing sport for fitness.
Your pro.s, high level amateurs (depending on sport) and those who go from 0 to full-on are going to want the surgery, but risks all the complications of cutting someone open with a sharp knife.

Which doesn't mean that a pro wouldn't be fine with gold standard, or a mid level amateur with NHS; but the more you're going to challenge and rely on it, the more certainty you want that it's a solid repair, and the more risk you're willing to take to get it.


Out of academic interest - is the acceleration gone because the repair isn't solid, because it hurts, or because you don't actually trust it, and therefore hold back?
In theory, if the ends are held together properly, then acceleration shouldn't be affected. If they're held together with shitty undifferentiated scar tissue, then there may be too much elasticity in there (and usually means the rehab wasn't completed, or attempted properly [can be "I'm young and invincible" "I didn't know / can't be arsed to do my rehab on the other 13 days between my fortnightly physio" or "my physio didn't even try to push me"]); but either one shouldn't give you much warning before snapping again. Pain and fear of reinjury would be major depressors of acceleration though, and worth addressing on a more psychological level