Approaching a Climax - Bath v Leicester

[Beasties]

Are we allowed political laughter?
If so, I’m in.

[Puja]

Are we allowed political laughter?
If so, I’m in.

Thanks Obano!

Puja

[Which Tyler]

I assume the twatter link is the Youngs & Cole podcast the following day?
Watched it this morning, and... I have great sympathy for them, coming less than 24 hours after their retirement, and loss.
Pretty sure the loser of every side feels aggrieved after any match for a good 24-48 hours before letting it go.
Which IMO means that they simply should have postponed the show by a day or two.

I'm absolutely sure that Cole didn't go up with the intention of receiving a yellow card - I'm sure he went in with the intention of charging down a kick - something he's quite possibly never done before; and he screwed up - he got his body position wrong, and his angle of jump wrong, then he compounded it by leading with his elbow - as shown in their own youtube video.
Sometimes, you screw up - and it hurts, but after a little time to reflect, you put your hands up and say "yeah, I shouldn't have done that" or "I should have done it differently" - he hadn't really had that time to reflect at the time of recording.

As for Youngs and his box-kick - he can give all the rationale he likes; and quote as many other SHs who do the same as he likes - if you're behind in the last minute of a match, you are always going to cop flak if you just give the ball away to your opponents.
In the context of the match, it was a classic example of not learning. You comment on how good Muir had been in the air all day; then you drop the ball on top of him with no real chasers. You comment on how Bath had only given away 2 penalties all day, both at scrum time; and your gambit is that, with 50 seconds to go, you'll get a kickable penalty? That's never the right decision - however much programming you've had to box-kick from a ruck in your own half, 5m from the sideline.


ETA: At some point, I'm going to re-watch the match, and try to put my bias aside, and Healey's bias aside; and see if I do think that either side got the general benefit of the ref.
At the time, it felt like Leicester got the benefit of the card decisions*; Bath were robbed of 1 try**; Dickson let a lot go from both sides; and that Bath got the benefit in terms of kickable penalties. It also felt that Bath had more attacking momentum than Leicester, and spent a lot more time playing in Leicester's half - that team tends to get the benefit from "rub of the green" decisions.


* I'm just about okay with yellow, but Montoya could very easily have seen ref - especially as, whilst dynamic, the ball carrier's head didn't dip at all (if anything, it bumps up)
** Even if we accept that Nicky Smith doesn't know what a rugby ball feels like when his hand touches one - it's still back off white, not a knock-on; so the ball is live, and Ewels (?) dotting the ball down is a try (assuming he didn't manage to drop it - I don't recall seeing any replays of that bit). I will also say that it took me until after the match to notice that miss.
** I know a lot of Bath fans are saying that Muir didn't knock the ball forwards, but I disagree - I can't really tell for the initial sideways movement, but he loses control on the ground, and the ball pops up at his shoulder, closer to the Tigers' try line - I think knock-on is accurate; even if Dickson was letting a lot of stuff go.

[Banquo]

I think when you review it, Bath were pretty lucky at scrum time, Bath having lost the first two decisions- quite rightly, Tigers were probably entitled to think we’ll keep doing what won us those, only for Dickson to then do the opposite! (And I guess Tigers should have adapted) Tigers had a substantial edge at scrum time imo but got nada after the first 10. As for the rest, thought he was poor for both sides.
On the twitter vid, best not do stuff like that when still raw as you said; any sympathy for shit ends to great careers is washed away by sour grape ness

[Which Tyler]

I think when you review it, Bath were pretty lucky at scrum time, Bath having lost the first two decisions- quite rightly, Tigers were probably entitled to think we’ll keep doing what won us those, only for Dickson to then do the opposite! (And I guess Tigers should have adapted) Tigers had a substantial edge at scrum time imo but got nada after the first 10. As for the rest, thought he was poor for both sides.
On the twitter vid, best not do stuff like that when still raw as you said; any sympathy for shit ends to great careers is washed away by sour grape ness

I probably won't - I don't know jack about what goes on after I've put the ball in, except that I sometimes say a little prayer that they don't take "feeding" too literally.
The Bath fans who claim to know about these things say that TdT had a word with Dickson after the 2nd penalty against. I don't remember noticing that, and what they say he said didn't mean enough to me to remember now. It might be that he pointed out something Leicester were doing, or it might mean that he got clarity on what he was doing wrong and corrected.
Either way, as said pre-match, adapting to the ref is key - it always is, but especially with Dickson (and Tempest)

[Puja]

I think when you review it, Bath were pretty lucky at scrum time, Bath having lost the first two decisions- quite rightly, Tigers were probably entitled to think we’ll keep doing what won us those, only for Dickson to then do the opposite! (And I guess Tigers should have adapted) Tigers had a substantial edge at scrum time imo but got nada after the first 10. As for the rest, thought he was poor for both sides.
On the twitter vid, best not do stuff like that when still raw as you said; any sympathy for shit ends to great careers is washed away by sour grape ness

I probably won't - I don't know jack about what goes on after I've put the ball in, except that I sometimes say a little prayer that they don't take "feeding" too literally.
The Bath fans who claim to know about these things say that TdT had a word with Dickson after the 2nd penalty against. I don't remember noticing that, and what they say he said didn't mean enough to me to remember now. It might be that he pointed out something Leicester were doing, or it might mean that he got clarity on what he was doing wrong and corrected.
Either way, as said pre-match, adapting to the ref is key - it always is, but especially with Dickson (and Tempest)

As I mentioned during the game, Dickson was guessing at scrum-time. He literally just reset reset reset until he had something that looked like an offence and then penalised the side closest to their tryline so that his guessing wouldn't result in a kickable penalty.

Puja

[Banquo]

I think when you review it, Bath were pretty lucky at scrum time, Bath having lost the first two decisions- quite rightly, Tigers were probably entitled to think we’ll keep doing what won us those, only for Dickson to then do the opposite! (And I guess Tigers should have adapted) Tigers had a substantial edge at scrum time imo but got nada after the first 10. As for the rest, thought he was poor for both sides.
On the twitter vid, best not do stuff like that when still raw as you said; any sympathy for shit ends to great careers is washed away by sour grape ness

I probably won't - I don't know jack about what goes on after I've put the ball in, except that I sometimes say a little prayer that they don't take "feeding" too literally.
The Bath fans who claim to know about these things say that TdT had a word with Dickson after the 2nd penalty against. I don't remember noticing that, and what they say he said didn't mean enough to me to remember now. It might be that he pointed out something Leicester were doing, or it might mean that he got clarity on what he was doing wrong and corrected.
Either way, as said pre-match, adapting to the ref is key - it always is, but especially with Dickson (and Tempest)

I'm prepared to venture an opinion, and that was Tigers got a nudge every single time post set. Adapting yes, but imo a good ref would have given Bath a much harder time. No dog in this fight at all. From a neutral pov a poor quality but exciting for 10 mins game, multiplied by poor officiating (cause and effect, possibly).

[Which Tyler]

Love this (hope the linking works - I don't use Insta)

[Mikey Brown]

Ojomoh seems to be some sort of time traveller.