New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[Danno]

When Wasps went under it looked as though Atkinson was their preferred 10 although I may be misremembering that.

I think you're right, Umaga was playing FB as Charlie was coming through at 10 if memory serves (it probably doesn't serve)

[Banquo]

When Wasps went under it looked as though Atkinson was their preferred 10 although I may be misremembering that.

I think you're right, Umaga was playing FB as Charlie was coming through at 10 if memory serves (it probably doesn't serve)

He was, having been pretty shaky at 10, and iirc had a couple of mares at 15, including a red card. Went downhill fast.

[Puja]

Moving this conversation here, cause I want to have it where it won't be swamped by the England tour stuff.

Incidentally someone on the Tigers offy says they asked Ilione about where he thinks his position will be and he said he's put on some extra weight to help with his carrying and to allow him play at 8 as well as 7.

He looks decent in throwing that weight about and I would **love** him to play more at 8 next season. That's where I first saw him back when he was in the U20s and it does feel like his natural position.

Puja

[Banquo]

Moving this conversation here, cause I want to have it where it won't be swamped by the England tour stuff.

Incidentally someone on the Tigers offy says they asked Ilione about where he thinks his position will be and he said he's put on some extra weight to help with his carrying and to allow him play at 8 as well as 7.

He looks decent in throwing that weight about and I would **love** him to play more at 8 next season. That's where I first saw him back when he was in the U20s and it does feel like his natural position.

Puja

what's his handling like?

[FKAS]

Moving this conversation here, cause I want to have it where it won't be swamped by the England tour stuff.

Incidentally someone on the Tigers offy says they asked Ilione about where he thinks his position will be and he said he's put on some extra weight to help with his carrying and to allow him play at 8 as well as 7.

He looks decent in throwing that weight about and I would **love** him to play more at 8 next season. That's where I first saw him back when he was in the U20s and it does feel like his natural position.

Puja

what's his handling like?

Solid but nothing special. Does the basics but not seen any one handed offloads or big passing to date.

Having an 8 that's capable of the physical stuff but a genuine threat at the breakdown would be very beneficial to Tigers. Would need a substantial step up on ability to see off Tom Willis or get the bench impact role from Pollock/Earl.

[Which Tyler]

If Marcus can learn from Russell, and transform himself from a glass canon into a genuine test-match threat; then he'll have an amazing future in the game.
If...
If not, he'll end up as one of rugby history's many "what could have been"s

[FKAS]

If Marcus can learn from Russell, and transform himself from a glass canon into a genuine test-match threat; then he'll have an amazing future in the game.
If...
If not, he'll end up as one of rugby history's many "what could have been"s

Yeah Danny Cipriani MK2 has a great chance on this Lions tour to learn and develop. Given how mediocre form this season he was pretty lucky to go over Tom Jordan in the utility back role.

[Puja]

If Marcus can learn from Russell, and transform himself from a glass canon into a genuine test-match threat; then he'll have an amazing future in the game.
If...
If not, he'll end up as one of rugby history's many "what could have been"s

One of the reasons why I don't care for the, "Oh, I wish the England players didn't go on the jamboree," griping. Both Smiths should be learning from training and competing against Russell and I hesitate to think what an eager and natural sponge like Pollock will be able to gain from the experience.

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

If Marcus can learn from Russell, and transform himself from a glass canon into a genuine test-match threat; then he'll have an amazing future in the game.
If...
If not, he'll end up as one of rugby history's many "what could have been"s

One of the reasons why I don't care for the, "Oh, I wish the England players didn't go on the jamboree," griping. Both Smiths should be learning from training and competing against Russell and I hesitate to think what an eager and natural sponge like Pollock will be able to gain from the experience.

Puja

They would learn nothing from George Ford in Argentina then? And that learning within our attacking system wouldn’t be more important than shadowing Finn Russell?

Pollock would learn nothing on full strength England tour surrounded by Curry x 2, Underhill, Willis, Itoje, Chessum etc?

All this theory that players come back much better players after a lions tour is nonsense. You can count on 1 hand the players that have and mostly due to the exposure to test match rugby anyway. Our players would get better exposure to that playing Argentina than Australia anyway given Argentina are the better side.

Certainly no tangible benefit in terms of players ability or performance has been seen from a collective England side post Lions.

[Which Tyler]

I think players benefit more from having a variety of input into their development
Club+ Country is better than club alone
Club + Country + Lions is better than Club+Country (assuming worthwhile Lions coaching, which hasn't necessarily been the case recently)

It's not like the Smiths are lacking in exposure to BoyGeorge; it's not like Pollock has never trained alongside Twindaloo and Underhill; nor are they going to lack that exposure.

I specifically mentioned Marcus and Finn as they both struggle with the same conceptions of a being a maverick who needs the team set up perfectly for them in order to function - or the glass-canon I referenced. Finn has personally overcome that, to become probably the best FH in world rugby; learned to adapt his game to those around him, learned how to get those around him onto his wave-length, and lift them up. This is stuff Marcus needs to learn; and is REALLY tough to coach.

As for your point on players not coming back better - Fazlet improved hugely with each Lions trip. IMO most come back better players, but with broken bodies, so it takes a bit of time to see the improvement realised.

[Oakboy]

If Marcus can learn from Russell, and transform himself from a glass canon into a genuine test-match threat; then he'll have an amazing future in the game.
If...
If not, he'll end up as one of rugby history's many "what could have been"s

One of the reasons why I don't care for the, "Oh, I wish the England players didn't go on the jamboree," griping. Both Smiths should be learning from training and competing against Russell and I hesitate to think what an eager and natural sponge like Pollock will be able to gain from the experience.

Puja

They would learn nothing from George Ford in Argentina then? And that learning within our attacking system wouldn’t be more important than shadowing Finn Russell?

Pollock would learn nothing on full strength England tour surrounded by Curry x 2, Underhill, Willis, Itoje, Chessum etc?

All this theory that players come back much better players after a lions tour is nonsense. You can count on 1 hand the players that have and mostly due to the exposure to test match rugby anyway. Our players would get better exposure to that playing Argentina than Australia anyway given Argentina are the better side.

Certainly no tangible benefit in terms of players ability or performance has been seen from a collective England side post Lions.

That is my take, especially v Australia. If the concept had real teeth and it was against a combined SH side, maybe the experience would be up a notch. As it is, NZ v England or SA v England has more learning merit. And, if a SH 'Lions' toured here every four years in proper reciprocation, that would add to the mix.

[fivepointer]

Think it depends on the player and the kind of tour they have. Dont think you can say that everyone will be better for the experience but equally you cant say that no one will be improved.
Cant think that many came back a better player after 2005 debacle.