Snap General Election called

[Sandydragon]

Inheritance tax is a terrible idea. Most of the seriously rich will have trusts set up to avoid it, so it’s mostly those who have property in pricier parts of the country who get hit. And why is it such a problem to leave money to your children?

In my experience, people will accept some taxes, but they get more irritated over taxes like this, which come at a point where the family is already grieving. Labour is ideologically predisposed to taxing people more, but that’s not always the best option, particularly when outlay like the NHS and welfare seem to be bottomless holes. This government promised growth, but its only answer is to tax those who pay taxes more and more.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Inheritance tax is a terrible idea. Most of the seriously rich will have trusts set up to avoid it, so it’s mostly those who have property in pricier parts of the country who get hit. And why is it such a problem to leave money to your children?

In my experience, people will accept some taxes, but they get more irritated over taxes like this, which come at a point where the family is already grieving. Labour is ideologically predisposed to taxing people more, but that’s not always the best option, particularly when outlay like the NHS and welfare seem to be bottomless holes. This government promised growth, but its only answer is to tax those who pay taxes more and more.

I think it has another answer, which is to take away benefits. The leadership seems pretty keen on it.

[Puja]

All sounds a bit shut up boomer to me. I'm not going to apologise/be retrospectively penalised for providing for my kids, nor saving for my own house and pension (no parental help if that's germane)....and surprising as it may seem, that was not without considerable sacrifice nor working really hard- nor do I see why I should pay my taxes when I'm alive, then whatever's left just passes to the state when I'm gone (if that's your proposal). Not much of an incentive to save really.
Must confess though, I did misinterpret your original comment on inheritance tax- you were unable to understand why kids should have the right to money etc from their parents, rather than why parents saved to provide for their kids. That's such a different start point I probably wouldn't have started

I do have two questions though- what did I take for granted that isn't available now, and to WT " inheritance tax here is a symptom not a cause - and the very fact it's a concern is another symptom"....symptoms of what?

It's not really, "Okay Boomer," it's more, "Please acknowledge that being a Boomer means you have a perspective, not **the** perspective that comes only from the wisdom of years and that, just as there are things other generations don't know which you do, you will have some fairly sizeable blind spots yourself." That's not really as pithy though, and probably harder to reach for when someone is frustrated by a Boomer asserting authority from years and disdaining the lived experience of others, so I understand why the 4-syllable answer is often reached for instead.

I always find it fascinating when people say, "I don't see why it's fair that I should have to pay X tax - I already paid tax on my income once already and why should I be penalised for being successful?!" Obviously no-one wants to pay tax at any point, but we live in a society, a rising tide lifts all boats, and taxes need to be paid in order for the country to work. If the choice is between not having something that's a social good, or not having it, surely it's a good idea to have the tax and for it to fall on those who are struggling the least? Do people's children **need** a £2m inheritance rather than a £1.5m inheritance, and do they **need** that more than we need bursaries to train medical staff?

In answer to your two questions, I'll take the last one first. It's a symptom of the biggest problem afflicting our nation - inequality and the consolidation of wealth and opportunity. The economic crashes, austerity, COVID, and the rapid advance of technology have exacerbated it, and it's only going to get worse, as people with familial wealth succeed and those without are left trapped. That's not to mention that an angry, under-educated populace with a sense of grievance about a rigged system are ripe targets for populists, who won't exactly be interested in undoing said rigged system, given they benefit from it.

As for the first, take your pick. Free university tuition. Bursaries for training in key jobs like nursing and medicine. A functioning NHS, rather than our current 2-tier system where if you want to get seen promptly, you need to go private. Bills that were a fraction of the average salary. Being able to buy a house for under £20k. Investment in infrastructure. Third places. I could go on, but I'd rather not.

Puja

[Banquo]

All sounds a bit shut up boomer to me. I'm not going to apologise/be retrospectively penalised for providing for my kids, nor saving for my own house and pension (no parental help if that's germane)....and surprising as it may seem, that was not without considerable sacrifice nor working really hard- nor do I see why I should pay my taxes when I'm alive, then whatever's left just passes to the state when I'm gone (if that's your proposal). Not much of an incentive to save really.
Must confess though, I did misinterpret your original comment on inheritance tax- you were unable to understand why kids should have the right to money etc from their parents, rather than why parents saved to provide for their kids. That's such a different start point I probably wouldn't have started

I do have two questions though- what did I take for granted that isn't available now, and to WT " inheritance tax here is a symptom not a cause - and the very fact it's a concern is another symptom"....symptoms of what?

It's not really, "Okay Boomer," it's more, "Please acknowledge that being a Boomer means you have a perspective, not **the** perspective that comes only from the wisdom of years and that, just as there are things other generations don't know which you do, you will have some fairly sizeable blind spots yourself." That's not really as pithy though, and probably harder to reach for when someone is frustrated by a Boomer asserting authority from years and disdaining the lived experience of others, so I understand why the 4-syllable answer is often reached for instead.

I always find it fascinating when people say, "I don't see why it's fair that I should have to pay X tax - I already paid tax on my income once already and why should I be penalised for being successful?!" Obviously no-one wants to pay tax at any point, but we live in a society, a rising tide lifts all boats, and taxes need to be paid in order for the country to work. If the choice is between not having something that's a social good, or not having it, surely it's a good idea to have the tax and for it to fall on those who are struggling the least? Do people's children **need** a £2m inheritance rather than a £1.5m inheritance, and do they **need** that more than we need bursaries to train medical staff?

In answer to your two questions, I'll take the last one first. It's a symptom of the biggest problem afflicting our nation - inequality and the consolidation of wealth and opportunity. The economic crashes, austerity, COVID, and the rapid advance of technology have exacerbated it, and it's only going to get worse, as people with familial wealth succeed and those without are left trapped. That's not to mention that an angry, under-educated populace with a sense of grievance about a rigged system are ripe targets for populists, who won't exactly be interested in undoing said rigged system, given they benefit from it.

As for the first, take your pick. Free university tuition. Bursaries for training in key jobs like nursing and medicine. A functioning NHS, rather than our current 2-tier system where if you want to get seen promptly, you need to go private. Bills that were a fraction of the average salary. Being able to buy a house for under £20k. Investment in infrastructure. Third places. I could go on, but I'd rather not.

Puja

As I said much earlier, I gave you a perspective clearly saying it wasn’t right or wrong. You talked about not getting this perspective so that’s what you got, but seemed to take that as saying you had no right to opine, and I certainly did not disdain your lived experience (though you appeared to disdain my experience of the 80's onwards). Not the case, I just don’t agree with you.
The only (or a a big part of) answer that seems to occur to many folks to fix the ills of the nation, seems to be to draw deeper into the extensive well of goodwill and cash from those who are and have been tapped up heavily already and hope some government will fix it using said cash. I’m fucked off with it as have seen many cycles. If you can’t see that multiple bites of the tax cherry on the same people breaks the social contract with the most compliant and actually generous section of tax payers then that’s one of the issues. The mantra of you are wealthier than I deem acceptable so I’ll decide the excess and take it off you doesn’t sound fun.

University education and loans isn’t a terrible way of solving the problem presented by making tertiary education almost a right- wont go into that; most students of my era - a whole lot less obvs- came out with a lot of unsubsidised debt in fairness. I agree on medical bursaries- tied to NHS tenure. The NHS has changed a lot and isn’t fit for purpose, but was a challenge even when I were a nipper etc- treatment quality and breadth was appalling compared to today. Not sure a £20k house is a reasonable ask
Just to maybe cheer you up about today- through most of my life I’ve not been able to take for granted- short and off the top of my head…security of employment (employees rights almost zero a lot of the time), no discrimination at work, minority rights, gay marriage, extension of life through cancer, heart etc treatment) I know you can’t fathom it but life in many aspects remains better for an awful lot more people than for much of my existence- and I’ve funded a lot of it . But it’s true, since 2008 been far from ideal with post Brexit feeling shitty- and all shittiness magnified by the medium we are presently using; my kids are however very positive, optimistic, altruistic and trying to make the world a better place so fingers crossed

[Stom]

All sounds a bit shut up boomer to me. I'm not going to apologise/be retrospectively penalised for providing for my kids, nor saving for my own house and pension (no parental help if that's germane)....and surprising as it may seem, that was not without considerable sacrifice nor working really hard- nor do I see why I should pay my taxes when I'm alive, then whatever's left just passes to the state when I'm gone (if that's your proposal). Not much of an incentive to save really.
Must confess though, I did misinterpret your original comment on inheritance tax- you were unable to understand why kids should have the right to money etc from their parents, rather than why parents saved to provide for their kids. That's such a different start point I probably wouldn't have started

I do have two questions though- what did I take for granted that isn't available now, and to WT " inheritance tax here is a symptom not a cause - and the very fact it's a concern is another symptom"....symptoms of what?

It's not really, "Okay Boomer," it's more, "Please acknowledge that being a Boomer means you have a perspective, not **the** perspective that comes only from the wisdom of years and that, just as there are things other generations don't know which you do, you will have some fairly sizeable blind spots yourself." That's not really as pithy though, and probably harder to reach for when someone is frustrated by a Boomer asserting authority from years and disdaining the lived experience of others, so I understand why the 4-syllable answer is often reached for instead.

I always find it fascinating when people say, "I don't see why it's fair that I should have to pay X tax - I already paid tax on my income once already and why should I be penalised for being successful?!" Obviously no-one wants to pay tax at any point, but we live in a society, a rising tide lifts all boats, and taxes need to be paid in order for the country to work. If the choice is between not having something that's a social good, or not having it, surely it's a good idea to have the tax and for it to fall on those who are struggling the least? Do people's children **need** a £2m inheritance rather than a £1.5m inheritance, and do they **need** that more than we need bursaries to train medical staff?

In answer to your two questions, I'll take the last one first. It's a symptom of the biggest problem afflicting our nation - inequality and the consolidation of wealth and opportunity. The economic crashes, austerity, COVID, and the rapid advance of technology have exacerbated it, and it's only going to get worse, as people with familial wealth succeed and those without are left trapped. That's not to mention that an angry, under-educated populace with a sense of grievance about a rigged system are ripe targets for populists, who won't exactly be interested in undoing said rigged system, given they benefit from it.

As for the first, take your pick. Free university tuition. Bursaries for training in key jobs like nursing and medicine. A functioning NHS, rather than our current 2-tier system where if you want to get seen promptly, you need to go private. Bills that were a fraction of the average salary. Being able to buy a house for under £20k. Investment in infrastructure. Third places. I could go on, but I'd rather not.

Puja

As I said much earlier, I gave you a perspective clearly saying it wasn’t right or wrong. You talked about not getting this perspective so that’s what you got, but seemed to take that as saying you had no right to opine, and I certainly did not disdain your lived experience (though you appeared to disdain my experience of the 80's onwards). Not the case, I just don’t agree with you.
The only (or a a big part of) answer that seems to occur to many folks to fix the ills of the nation, seems to be to draw deeper into the extensive well of goodwill and cash from those who are and have been tapped up heavily already and hope some government will fix it using said cash. I’m fucked off with it as have seen many cycles. If you can’t see that multiple bites of the tax cherry on the same people breaks the social contract with the most compliant and actually generous section of tax payers then that’s one of the issues. The mantra of you are wealthier than I deem acceptable so I’ll decide the excess and take it off you doesn’t sound fun.

University education and loans isn’t a terrible way of solving the problem presented by making tertiary education almost a right- wont go into that; most students of my era - a whole lot less obvs- came out with a lot of unsubsidised debt in fairness. I agree on medical bursaries- tied to NHS tenure. The NHS has changed a lot and isn’t fit for purpose, but was a challenge even when I were a nipper etc- treatment quality and breadth was appalling compared to today. Not sure a £20k house is a reasonable ask
Just to maybe cheer you up about today- through most of my life I’ve not been able to take for granted- short and off the top of my head…security of employment (employees rights almost zero a lot of the time), no discrimination at work, minority rights, gay marriage, extension of life through cancer, heart etc treatment) I know you can’t fathom it but life in many aspects remains better for an awful lot more people than for much of my existence- and I’ve funded a lot of it . But it’s true, since 2008 been far from ideal with post Brexit feeling shitty- and all shittiness magnified by the medium we are presently using; my kids are however very positive, optimistic, altruistic and trying to make the world a better place so fingers crossed

Just FYI, my parents' first house was £10k. In Hounslow. And they could sell it for £60k 18 months later, and buy their current home for £100k with a 25 year mortgage on £40k...and that home is now worth upward of £1.2m.

The wealth inequality problem generationally is massive.

On your point about taxation. I agree and I don't. I don't think it's fair to tax normal people inheritance tax. But the property is then exempt from capital gains tax if sold for the same value. Which is...fair, I think.

The problem is with the very wealthy. The way the financial system has gone, anyone with wealth can basically live without spending a penny. They can let their wealth accumulate, get better deals with the banks because they have assets, and grow their wealth exponentially while the average joe is left to rot.

THAT should be taxed. We've clashed before because of the impact it would have on pensions, but increasing dividend tax is a must do for me. It would absolutely be the first thing I do.